Red Cliff (2008)

[TinyRedLeaf]

Also known in Mandarin as Chi Bi (no, not chibi aka "shortie", but 赤壁, literally "scarlet cliffs").

This will be the latest in a recent series of war epics based on Chinese history, set to open on 11 Jul 08. More interestingly, this is being directed by John Woo, who has not worked in Hong Kong cinema for some time. The synopsis of the movie is as follows:

The story of RED CLIFF takes place in 208AD in China during the Later Han Dynasty (25AD to 220AD). Despite the presence of an emperor, Han Xiandi, China was then divided into many warring states.

The ambitious Prime Minister Cao Cao, by using the Emperor as his puppet, waged war on a kingdom in the west, Xu, ruled by the emperor’s uncle, Liu Bei. Cao Cao’s ultimate goal was to wipe out all the kingdoms and install himself as Emperor to a unified China. Liu Bei sent his military advisor Zhuge Liang as an envoy to the Wu Kingdom in the south, trying to persuade its ruler Sun Quan into joining forces. There he met Wu’s Viceroy Zhou Yu, and the two became friends amidst this uneasy alliance.

Enraged to learn that the two kingdoms have become allies, Cao Cao sent an army of eight hundred thousand soldiers and two thousand ships down south, hoping to kill two birds with one stone. Cao Cao’s army set up camp at Crow Forest, across the Yangtze River from Red Cliff, where the allies were stationed.

With the food supply running short, and the army vastly outnumbered by Cao Cao’s, the allies seemed doomed. Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang had to rely on their combined wisdom to turn the tide of battle. Numerous battles of wits and forces, on land and on water, eventually culminated into the most famous battle in Chinese history, where two thousand ships were burned, and the course of China’s history was changed forever. That was the Battle of Red Cliff.

Needless to say, as a long-time fan of Koei's Romance of the Three Kingdoms (video game) franchise, and a closet Chinese chauvinist, I'm all pumped up for this historical epic, which stars Tony Leung (Hero, Infernal Affairs, In The Mood For Love) as Zhou Yu, and Takeshi Kaneshiro (House Of Flying Daggers, Onimusha[video game]) as Zhuge Liang.

(Frankly, I think both the actors have been mis-cast. In my opinion, Tony Leung makes a more likely Zhuge Liang, while Takeshi Kaneshiro is a more likely Zhou Yu, who was known for his beauty and vanity.)

For those who are unfamiliar with Chinese history or literature, the Battle of Red Cliff is one of the most dramatic battles chronicled in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms (the novel, not the video game). It represented a critical turning point in a generation of strife and warfare. At the time of the battle, Cao Cao had become the de facto leader of wealthy Northern China, and was set to crush all remaining opposition against his martial might. The alliance victory against his army at Red Cliff made it possible for Zhuge Liang's vision of a three-way balance of power to emerge over the following years -- between Cao Cao's Wei in the north, Liu Bei's Shu-Han in the south-west (roughly where Sichuan is today) and Sun Quan's Wu in the south-east.

More dramatically, the battle was also known for the intense rivalry between Shu-Han's Zhuge Liang and Wu's Zhou Yu. Both men were reputedly the most brilliant military strategists of their time, and Zhou Yu was famously jealous of Zhuge Liang's apparently greater intellect. The Battle of Red Cliff was as much a battle of egos between these two men, as it was a battle for survival between two smaller fiefdoms against an oppresive enemy.

[Kang Seung Jae]

The only problem I have: The thing where they say 100 thousand versus a million.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

The only problem I have: The thing where they say 100 thousand versus a million.

Have you never heard of suspension of disbelief?

It's just like complaining there weren't really 300 Spartans against a million Persians in Thermopylae while watching "300".

[yezhanquan]

The actual facts of the battle are notoriously difficult to pinpoint. Yi Zhongtian once mentioned that if the rest of the novel (Romance of the 3 Kingdoms) is 70% fact, 30% fiction, it is then the other way round for Red Cliffs.

Cao Cao most certainly didn't have a million men, but the Liu-Sun alliance was outnumbered by at least 5-8 to 1.

[MakubeX2]

The video gaming generation of the west had already been informed of the battle of Red Cliff (as well as the majority of the cast of ROTK and most of the landmarked battles) via Dynasty Warriors since 2001 and I'm afraid that they need no introduction to what the movie is all about.

It is, however, interesting to note that the Asian release of thie movie will be a 2 parter with the first being released this Summer and the concluing episode scheduel to debut this winter totaling about 4-5 hours in total.

Those outside of Asia will get an abridged version all compacted to a 2 hour screening. Might as well, just in case those walk in expecting something akin to an action film akin to an live action Dynasty Warriors.

[Kinny Riddle]

As a self-styled history buff myself (more like a self-styled Three Kingdoms history buff ), I find it apt the movie is released exactly 1800 years after the battle itself, which I believe took place during winter, hence part 2 for winter.

[Aoie_Emesai]

All there's now is to wait for the movie to come out ^^

[Z3120]

Thanks for letting me know. Had no idea such a film was in the making. I should reread the RTK novel sometime then.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

It is, however, interesting to note that the Asian release of thie movie will be a 2 parter with the first being released this Summer and the concluing episode scheduel to debut this winter totaling about 4-5 hours in total.

Actually, it might have been a good idea to screen the abridged version in Asia as well, because I overheard some patrons walking out of the cinema wondering, "What happened? Why the sudden ending? Who won?" So, it's clear that even in East Asia, not everyone is familiar with the story, let alone in the US.

On the other hand, for those who know the story, the film was EPIC!

The movie started screening in Singapore today and I trooped down to the cinema as soon as I could. Watching Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun come to life on the silver screen — graced with the stylo-mylo action that is the hallmark of John Woo at his best — is beyond awesome. Makes me want to break out my good ol' Dynasty Warriors to conquer China all over again on my PS2.

The first half of the movie covered Liu Bei's retreat from Jing province, Zhuge Liang's mission to forge an alliance with Sun Quan via Zhou Yu, the alliance's first victory against Cao Cao's cavalry (through the brilliant use of an "outdated" military formation) and ends just as Cao Cao's massive armada arrived at Red Cliff.

Judging by how the screenplay unfolded, it seems clear that John Woo has taken some artistic licence with the original novel. One extremely important general has been omitted from the alliance forces, which makes me wonder how the second half will unfold, because he plays a critical role in the strategem that would defeat Cao Cao's navy.

Also, female characters play a larger role in the movie than in the novel, which is not surprising given modern feminism. I'm referring to Zhou Yu's wife, Xiao Qiao, and Sun Quan's younger sister, Sun Shang Xiang (played by Zhao Wei, who reprises the tomboyish flair that propelled her to fame in Princess Pearl).

Finally, I take back my comment about Tony Leung and Takeshi Kaneshiro being miscasted. Kaneshiro at least puts a little bit more effort to portray Zhuge Liang, instead of just strutting around being a pretty boy, and so delivers an acceptable performance. And as the movie progressed, I remembered that Zhou Yu is supposed to be older than Zhuge Liang, after which it became easier to accept Leung's stoical portrayal of the famous viceroy.

Overall, Red Cliff has indeed become the movie for all other Chinese historical epics to emulate. It has set the bar very, very high and is an equal match for Hollywood fare such as Gladiator and Troy. What's more, it's not just empty-headed action, but interwoven with intelligent drama as well. It's an even greater pleasure to see Chinese military tactics portrayed with such authenticity. Go watch it if you can, especially if you're a Dynasty Warriors fan.

[MakubeX2]

As of time of this posting, I have booked a screening of this movie for the next evening.

Actually, it might have been a good idea to screen the abridged version in Asia as well, because I overheard some patrons walking out of the cinema wondering, "What happened? Why the sudden ending? Who won?" So, it's clear that even in East Asia, not everyone is familiar with the story, let alone in the US.

So where have those people been ? Didn't they play Koei's long-running Stratedy Games on the PC or played at least one title of DW on their PS2 ? I can forgive them for not reading the novel, but come on, Three Kingdoms had been in Pop Cultures through the ages since like forever. They must have encounter tales of Red Cliff in some part of their life.

One extremely important general has been omitted from the alliance forces, which makes me wonder how the second half will unfold, because he plays a critical role in the strategem that would defeat Cao Cao's navy.

Let me put an intelligent guess. Huang Gai is too important to do way with as he is an inside mole. But Pang Tong, who suggest chaining Cao's navel fleet together can be ignored. And I have not head of any actors being casted as Pang Tong, so it must be him.And besides the role Pang played in the part of the Red Cliff episode is very cameo-lish.

Go watch it if you can, especially if you're a Dynasty Warriors fan.

No way, DW fans expect Lu Bu to appear in one form or the other in the show. But Lu Bu had already been dead for ages.

[Kinny Riddle]

A good adaptation, by the end of the battle I sensed "this is gonna extend to a part 2, so I'd better not get my hopes up that the battle itself will be shown".

As a Three Kingdoms buff in my younger days, the movie was quite satisfactory.

As usual, Takeshi and Tony Leung are absolute hunks, in whatever role they play.

Chang Chen was also quite dashing as Sun Quan, portraying well the young warlord, who inherited the vast enterprise that his father and brother fought so hard to establish, but still ambitious to want to make his own mark in history.

Though Cao Cao was still portrayed as the villanous usurper as usual, I like Woo's new portrayal of Zhou Yu, which I believe does his character more justice than in the novel.

In the novel, he's usually ridiculed as a bitterly jealous genius who would take every opportunity to get rid of Zhuge Liang, and would always get outwitted and fail miserably, leading to him to eventually die a bitter man. Makes one wonder whether the author Luo Guangzhong bears a grudge against this guy. (Though since he portrays anyone who plots against Liu Bei's camp as villains anyway, it's probably no surprise. )

In contrast, Tony Leung's portrayal is of a brilliant general with a genuine respect for his upcoming rival. In historical accounts, he died from an infection caused by an arrow wound. The arrow wound he received while heroically dodging an arrow for Zhao Yun would probably play a part in part 2.

My friend, a Dynasty Warrior fanatic, noted that it was a pity that the insanely powerful Lu Bu was long dead by the time of this epic battle, or it can be even more exciting, lol.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Judging by how the screenplay unfolded, it seems clear that John Woo has taken some artistic licence with the original novel. One extremely important general has been omitted from the alliance forces, which makes me wonder how the second half will unfold, because he plays a critical role in the strategem that would defeat Cao Cao's navy.

And who may that be? If you're talking about Huang Gai, he already appeared during Zhuge Liang's audience with Sun Quan as the old general in the pro-war faction sitting on the right of Sun Quan. Due to the length of the story, it was obvious his crucial role will not come until part 2. Otherwise, I don't know who you're talking about.

[MakubeX2]

Seen the movie. My biggest nitpick will be a nagging lack of Red Hare. Guan Yu inherit that famous steed from Lu Bu via a gift from Cao Cao and it's well known in ROTK that he rides it into each and every battle. But he was never seen with that horse in the 2 battle that was in the movie.

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

In contrast, Tony Leung's portrayal is of a brilliant general with a genuine respect for his upcoming rival. In historical accounts, he died from an infection caused by an arrow wound. The arrow wound he received while heroically dodging an arrow for Zhao Yun would probably play a part in part 2.

Not really, Historical Account mention that he died during a preparation for an expedition. Most likely due to an epidemic. The arrow wound was an invention from ROTK, a lethal does of jealousy and a hot head accelerate the process.

And who may that be? If you're talking about Huang Gai, he already appeared during Zhuge Liang's audience with Sun Quan as the old general in the pro-war faction sitting on the right of Sun Quan. Due to the length of the story, it was obvious his crucial role will not come until part 2. Otherwise, I don't know who you're talking about.

It's Pang Tong as I've said. Cao Cao was having an headache of how to climatise his nothern troops to southern climate. His troops was unsuited to naval battle and could not fight with all the swaying of boats.

In came Pang Tong, suggesting that Cao chained his boats altogether to stablise his fleet and get rid of the seasickness of the troops, not knowing that this will hasten his defeat in the near future.

You should be clear of this if you have read the novel.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

You should be clear of this if you have read the novel.

Of course I've read the bloody novel, all 120 chapters of it, though it's been a long time ago.

As you yourself have said, Pang's role is more of a cameo appearance more than anything in RotK, as historical accounts make no mention of him in Red Cliff. Not to mention his cameo just seemed forced by Luo Guangzhong, so his omission by Woo didn't seem odd.


BTW, in all his movies since the 1980s, Woo still seems to be very obsessed with pigeons. (When Zhuge Liang released his pigeon and it flew from the Sun encampment to the Cao encampment on the opposite shore, I swore I would've LOL'ed if it got shot down by an arrow. )

[dbj]

part 2 of the film will be done next year.

i read the novel online.., gosh it was killing my eyes to read through so many chapters but its just too interesting to stop lol.

[yezhanquan]

First the novel, then the actual history. The novel did have many fictional accounts; after being familiar with them, it's quite refreshing to know what was actually recorded in the history books.

First of all, Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang were considered to be handsome for their time, especially the former. The fact that he was called Zhou Lang said something about his looks (Oh, and his missus...).

Also, in the history books, Miss Sun (Sun Quan's sister; her name wasn't really Shang Xiang) was probably more militant than we thought. It was recorded that in her presence, even a military leader/hero like Liu Bei will "feel a chill going up his spine". Although she took part in no battles, I wouldn't be surprised to know that if she really entered battle, it ends up being a Dynasty Warriors scenario.

[demiurge]

I have yet to see the movie. Fan of the ROTK series (not so much of the DW series). Was wondering if anyone had a link for online reading of the actual histories and not the fiction made by the novel. I had links before but never got finished checking them out and of course they are dead now =(

Thanks for the help!

[bbduece]

I have some friends who are Chinese history puritans and they refuse to watch the movie because it fails to depict the essence the "three kingdom". I on the other hand will think they are crazy and watch it.

Also there is a series made by mainland China which is fairly long, i have not seen it yet but my friend said it was exciting and the use of facts was not too shabby but dont count on it being exact.

[demiurge]

Originally Posted by bbduece

I have some friends who are Chinese history puritans and they refuse to watch the movie because it fails to depict the essence the "three kingdom". I on the other hand will think they are crazy and watch it.

Also there is a series made by mainland China which is fairly long, i have not seen it yet but my friend said it was exciting and the use of facts was not too shabby but dont count on it being exact.

I was fanatic in my early ages about historical accuracy, but I think it's nuts to not enjoy such a fantastic piece made from historical fiction now. Also, the series from mainland China...is that the 84-episode tv series you're making note of? If so, I've recently started watching it and it follows the novel quite well.

I believe what I need is a link for is translations of the Sanguozhi, if I'm remembering correctly.

=/

[Vexx]

This Chinese film, which derives from a chapter in the Chinese Classic "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" is a '300 Spartans' stylized epic version of the Battle of Red Cliff.

Looks to be quite the 'movie to see' for buffs of John Woo or fans of period action films.

Film review: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0081106r1.html

In case the link dies:

Spoiler for Text of news story link:

Thursday, Nov. 6, 2008

Horseplay: "Red Cliff" marks John Woo's return to Chinese cinema after a long career in Hollywood. © 2008 THREE KINGDOMS LTD. © BAI XIAOYAN

War as wisdom and gore ---- John Woo's latest epic, 'Red Cliff,' has been a lifetime in the making


By KAORI SHOJI
Special to The Japan Times


A prominent example of how modern technology altered the world is seen in the way men wage war. In John Woo's battle extravaganza "Red Cliff," set in China in 208, armies fight with spears and shields and bare hands; they traverse deserts and treacherous mountain paths on foot and subsist on little more than rice and water, with the occasional stolen water buffalo to still the craving for protein. A simple message from one general took weeks or even months to reach another, and the fighting itself lasted for decades. The torch flame of triumph and/or revenge was passed from father to son to grandson, often right there on the battlefield. And if the soldiers had it rough, the civilians, most of them farmers, had to endure pillaging, rape and arson, their tilled and seeded farmland turned overnight into a wasteland of corpses.

Top heartthrobs: Woo with "Red Cliff" stars Tony Leung (left) and Takeshi Kaneshiro YOSHIAKI MIURA PHOTO

"Red Cliff" brings all that and more to the screen — a whopping two and a half hours (and this is just the first of two parts) of frenzied action, feverish passion and elegantly choreographed battle scenes emphasized by some extremely realistic sound effects of splattering guts and shattering bones, punctuated with the screams from panicked masses. "But . . . this certainly is war!" goes one of the early lines, spoken by a robed court adviser. He sure got that right.
"Red Cliff" is based on the legendary Battle of Red Cliff, which Woo declares is his favorite chapter in "Romance of the Three Kingdoms," written by Luo Guangzhong in the 14th century.
"The battle site, consisting of rocky cliff sides and the sea, gave both armies a tough time," Woo tells The Japan Times in an interview conducted during the Tokyo International Film Festival last month. "But it was also an opportunity to demonstrate their strategic powers and skills."
Proclaimed one of the four great works of Chinese literature, "Romance" is a historical novel that covers the last years of the Han Dynasty (206 B.C.-A.D. 220), rocked to its foundations by the Three Kingdoms wars that started up in 169 and ended more than a century later. (Imagine what the TV networks could have done with a franchise series! Imagine the merchandising and the Three Kingdoms theme park!)
The book was banned during the early days of the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s as being "much too entertaining," which describes it in a nutshell: The characters (and there are more than 1,000 of them) are brilliantly drawn, the settings depicted on a breathtakingly majestic scale and the battle scenes recounted with gut-wrenching, fist-clenching immediacy. In Japan, parts of the book (there are 120 chapters) are often required reading in junior-high and high school, and a knowledge of the quotes and battle strategies has traditionally been the mark of a scholarly mind. In East Asia, "Romance" is on par with the works of Shakespeare — we grow up surrounded by references to Zhuge Liang (widely known as the greatest military mind Asia has ever produced) and the deep friendship between Emperor Liu Bei and his general, Guan Yu, in the same way that people in Britain grow up studying "Hamlet" and "Macbeth."
Director Woo was especially enamored by "Romance" and grew up reading one of the many comic-book versions and play-acting some of the characters with his friends. As a child, he drew bits of the battle scenes onto pieces of glass, then took a flashlight and a blanket and barricaded himself in the closet. There, he would cover himself with the blanket, take the pieces of glass and shine the flashlight over them, which made the soldiers look as if they were really fighting.
"After about 30 minutes I would come out, suffocated and sweating," laughs Woo. "Even at 10, I wanted to make a movie about it, somehow. I must admit, it took a lot longer than I thought."

Red carpet: John Woo is joined by his wife Annie and Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso for the film's Tokyo opening on Oct. 25.

Woo, who is one of the first generation of Chinese directors to work and succeed in Hollywood ("Mission Impossible II" [2000] and "Face/Off" [1997] are among his filmography), returned to his homeland for the first time in nearly 20 years for the making of "Red Cliff," which goes down in the books as the most expensive film ever made in Asia. He poured a total of $80 million, part of which came from his own private funding, into the project. The bill included the building of a real castle, a fortress and a road in the middle of a small island in a region three hours north of Beijing. The opening battle scene alone deployed 1,000 extras and 12 cameras.
As Woo puts it, "I wanted to get the scale of it right. I thought that if I got the grand-scale feeling of a Three Kingdoms battle, then everything else will follow."
The battle of Red Cliff is renowned for becoming the demonstrative stage of the powers of military strategist Zhuge Liang (played here by Takeshi Kaneshiro). Zhuge, who made his name some years earlier, was hired by warlord Liu (You Yong) to work as the brains and the diplomatic emissary of his organization (at this point, supporting the ailing Han Dynasty). In the book, Zhuge is wooed and persuaded by Liu three times before he finally says yes; in the movie he comes off as a still-young scholar, wise enough to underplay his talents until the crucial moment when his strategies are truly needed.
Woo says the heroism of Zhuge lies in his restraint and mild manners; among the hot-headed generals eager for battlefield fanfare, Zhuge is apt to seem "a little lacking and slow" according to Woo. But he adds, "That was part of his strategy, part of the art of war. If the enemy underestimates you, you become that much stronger, which is something Zhuge taught the generals. He was also a romantic and a cultured man who thought his thoughts in poetry and played music; his presence transformed the battlefield and altered the course of history."
But if the story is Chinese period history, the structure is pure Hollywood action picture, with a lot of extended man-to-man combat and full-frontal closeups of generals gnashing their teeth in fury or raising their fists in rage.
Woo also gets unabashedly sentimental: The opening sequence shows one of Liu's wives choosing to drown herself in a well rather than surrender to the enemy, and trusted general Zhao Yun (Hu Jun) scooping up her baby in the nick of time, tying it to his back with a cloth, and literally spearing his way to safety amid the murderous army set loose by evil warmonger Cao Cao (Zhang Fengyi).
Liu, who had his moments of cruelty and madness in the original book, is drawn here as a virtuous and peace-loving master, concerned about the plight of farmers who become refugees in the wake of the fighting, and who likes to braid sandals for his foot soldiers in between battles.
And this being a John Woo movie, there's the love story between a gorgeous couple in the midst of all the fighting — in this case between Liu's right-hand man Zhou Yu (Tony Leung) and his wife Xiao Qiao (Chiling Lin). Xiao Qiao has the reputation of being the most beautiful woman among the Three Kingdoms, and it is partly to grab her (there's just no other way to put it) that Cao Cao is on the warpath, swallowing up provinces like they were rice cakes. He even has an evil laugh to accompany his vampiric cape and naughty mustache.

Talking tactics: John Woo talks directs Takeshi Kaneshiro, who plays military consultant Zhuge Liang, on the set of "Red Cliff." AP PHOTO

"I wanted to make this entertaining for both Asian and Western audiences, to lighten the burden of history and focus on the personalities of the characters," says Woo. "I hoped that people in America would look upon this like the Asian version of 'Gladiator,' for example, and for people in Asia to see an old and familiar tale retold with a fresh new perspective. I know from experience that people love heroism. It's the same all over the world and a universal language, you know. With some things you don't need dialogue or subtitles."

Indeed, "Red Cliff" has a lot less dialogue than you'd expect from a story of such scale, probably in part due to the multinational cast. Leung and Kaneshiro speak their native Cantonese better than Mandarin, as do the actors portraying the other generals. Shidou Nakamura, an actor from one of the oldest kabuki families in Japan, appears as Liu's general Gan Xing. The crew is a mix from Hong Kong, mainland China and Japan.
Woo's solution was to dub all the dialogue in Mandarin. "I thought it better not to concentrate on the words too much," he says. "There were some parts that I wanted to keep ambiguous, like the battle between good and evil. The story of the Three Kingdoms is really about ambition, and a contest of military strategy and talent. I hoped that aspect would speak for itself."
Woo is right — much of the film is like watching an especially gripping football match, and the urge to stand up and cheer on Liu's army becomes irresistible. That explains the collective, anguished gasp at the sight of the end credits (it certainly was loud during the press screening). The sequel is slated for release early next year, and already there's that breathless feeling of waiting and pining for something wondrous.
"Red Cliff" is now showing.

[C.A.]

I'll just say that this was a great movie the last time I watched. Its a trilogy I think, a sequel is coming very soon.