[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[haguruma]

Well, we probably will have to agree to disagree on some points, and God knows AT, Renall and I have been butting heads on these topics since way before I think, but I still wanna pick up some points to give a counter opinion.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Answer the questions I raised in the novel. Really, that's just the bare minimum. Not just that mysteries should have answers, but also that plot-threads should have resolution.

I agree with you on the second point. His way of leaving plot threads dangling in the air was already quite a bother with Higurashi...only with that they followed with the whole stampede of Gaiden material that kind of gave closure to some points.
For Kumasawa you can construct an answer, at least I have for myself, that she is basically the origin of "the witch Beatrice" and therefore Beatrice The Older and completely separate from the genetic Beatrice lineage. She kind of DID create the whole fantasy of the witch, teaching Yasu about the legends of Rokkenjima and probably fabricating a lot of the story in order to indirectly teach Yasu about her mother/grandmother. But yes, a lot of that was left dangling a bit too much to make a rounded character.
It kinda runs with the theme I see in Umineko, with every single person being a sorta catbox in themselves, with limitless potential for the parts we don't witness...but it left a lot of the cast just blank and kind of uninteresting once the drama was over.

I do disagree with the idea that a mystery must have an answer, though.
We already had long-winded discussions about what constitutes a mystery, about the connections to Japanese anti-mystery literature that is even brought up in the text and within interviews, about genre-definitions. I think at this point it's best to just disagree though, since I understand your point, I just think it's limiting.

And, as Renall has covered quite well before, episodes 5 and 6 were primarily filler.

Well, pacing got all jacked up from EP3 onwards. I didn't find 5 and 6 that bad, since it introduced a lot of ideas about genre, genre-breaking, rules...well it went a lot more meta and I think I only enjoyed that because of my personal and academic PoV on the subject.

I would have definitely liked Ryukishi to go a little bit harder on his audience and not give into the cries of "too hard, too difficult!!"
Considering that Proto-Erika was supposed to appear in EP3 already shows that a lot went all over the place, which of course happens with every serialized format but not in a good way this time.

Also, he could've hired an editor. Fucking seriously, his pacing is god-awful.

But that is a problem he had since Day1.
He just doesn't know how to limit himself and when he does, he does it to many of the wrong things. I found Umineko a lot more entertaining than Higurashi, but it was also harder to discern where you could skip and where not. With Higurashi I basically skipped though all the school scenes before the Watanagashi only stopping when the music changed, with Umineko it just dragged since he continued to splice in vital information between repetition and repetition of the same things.

Let's admit it, even most of the short-stories he wrote drag and could be cut down to half the size. I always wondered how much actual CONTENT lands on the cutting floor for that.

[Thunder Book]

I do disagree with the idea that a mystery must have an answer, though.

It doesn't have to be an answer to the mystery, but there should be, well, much more of a payoff considering the large amount of time Ryu07 asked his audience to invest into his story.

If Ryu07's ultimate point with Umineko is just using a murder mystery to express some message about the subjective nature of truth, well, Rashomon made the same point in a similar way much more effectively over 60 years ago, and in only 89 minutes at that.

[Ithekro]

I thought his partner in this died somewhere around the middle of the writing the answers sections of Umineko. I forget the details at the moment but it was important.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

It doesn't have to be an answer to the mystery, but there should be, well, much more of a payoff considering the large amount of time Ryu07 asked his audience to invest into his story.

Well, he never actually asked us to invest time, we happily did, didn't we?
That a lot of the expectations many people put towards the project weren't met, that's a whole different story. I found the payoff in itself quite satisfying, just EP8 in itself quite badly written, obviously rushed and limited at just the wrong points while unnecessarily drawn out fight sequences dominated much of the Episode.

Compared to other anti-mystery novels I read, I found Umineko to be quite clear and meeting the payoff that could be expected from the way it was presenting itself from pretty much the beginning of Chiru onward.
Like I said, I'd consider the characters and some of the plot threads lacking...but thematically I find Umineko quite sound. It simply could have used a lot more of the meta-banter (talking about the genre, writing, mystery novels that inspired the setting, etc.) that was quite the entertaining part of EP5 and 6.

One thing that still stands out like a rusty nail is Gohda. Had he actually been developed to have the affair with Natsuhi that was apparently planned for his character in the beginning he might have gone somewhere...
The way it was he ended up being nothing more than the everyman among the servants who bore witness to Yasu's pranks in the time nobody else could.

If Ryu07's ultimate point with Umineko is just using a murder mystery to express some message about the subjective nature of truth, well, Rashomon made the same point in a similar way much more effectively over 60 years ago, and in only 89 minutes at that.

Well, going by that logic: Akutagawa Ryunosuke made it even more concise and equally effective in just about 10 pages in his story Yabu no naka, without which Rasshomon wouldn't exist. I find Rasshomon to be a wonderful movie and I love Akutagawa's stories that inspired it, but they aren't mystery fiction in the way Umineko or any other (probably sounder) anti-mystery is.

I could name (and have already named over the years) several mystery stories that preceded Umineko or went alongside it, which are written with similar plots and most of them of course shorter than Umineko.
Yokomizo wrote better characters, Shimada wrote more believable locked rooms, John Dickson Carr did it first and whatever...instead of now just blaming Umineko for somehow being close to being a closed book (without being perfect), shouldn't we also remember it for what it was worth? For what it did well?
I'm not against criticism, do it where it is due, but it's not like it's all shit now just because it didn't become what WE wanted it to become.

[jjblue1]

I'm re-reading Umineko (and writing unbelievably long comments about each part) and comparing it to the manga and the anime while doing so and I've to admit that, while the pace is awful, all the characters gets a decent and detailed introduction in their good and bad sides.
There's a lot of info about the adults and about the background you're given (for example ep 1 explains in details how Kinzo got Rokkenjima... and I remember some of us forgetting and discussing about how he could get an insland which hosted a military bases) and it all flesh out the story but... well, as it seems to drag on and on, it causes you to lose interest.
For example, we've many instances in which all Rosa does with Maria is reproach her and that likely has the purpose to lead us to the scene in which she exploded later on... but they don't feel intriguing, they feel boring as they keep on repeating. George passive bullying of Battler is also important but again, we get it too many times. There's even a scene completely pointless on the boat in which Hideyoshi joins the cousins for the purpose of making more fun of Battler... when really, we had enough of it.

Also, there are lose threads that aren't addressed. In Ep 1 Rosa, differently from the other chapters, acts nice with Battler, which probably influences his nice opinion of her but... feels pretty random as Rosa isn't really an understanding person with Maria and has no need to play that role with Battler.

There's a huge emphasis on a grudge Eva should have for Kumasawa (as soon as she sees her she jabs at her and Kumasawa will even say Eva holds a grudge against her) but... there's no mention whatsoever about what Kumasawa did.

And so on. Battler's explanations about the Ushiromiya, although relevant, often ends up being boring and there's too much chatting that yes, gives us a better view of the adults if we look at it deeper, but at a first reading is just that, pointless chatting because we don't know how to connect it.
Take this bit for example:

"It's amazing whenever you see it. It would be truly wonderful to have such a rose garden in one's home."
"Oh no you don't, who'd take care of it? With roses, between the bugs and diseases, it'd be hell!"
"That's right. Kyrie nee-san seems the type who'll take care of a rose each and every day so that no insect'll come near, right?"
"Huh? I don't have a clue what you're talking about."
"That's right. In this case, the rose goes after the insects like some nasty carnivorous plant."
"...Oh, so that's what you mean. Honestly, Rosa, gimme a break with that today, wouldn't you? I've completely done away that sort of thing, right?"
"I do wonder. Rudolf nii-san is a womanizer on the genetic level...!"
"That's alright, Rosa-san. If a rose gives me too much trouble, I'll snip it right at the root."

You gets the full strenght of Kyrie's statement only much, much later, when you're informed how jealous Kyrie is. But, by then, you've probably forgotten this part due to the huge wall of text you've to dealt with. We've already gotten Kyrie is jealous and possessive. It just seems a repetition. And anyway, as far as we know, Rudolf wasn't killed because he pursued another woman (actually we know Kyrie only planned to kill Asumu and marry Rudolf) so it becomes a lose thread as well.

So yes, the story might be very informative but the pacing is so awful you fall asleep in the middle of it. As for changes I guess that I would have replaced Ep 8 VN with Ep 8 manga version as it's much more emotional and informative and follows better the flow of a story. I would have preferred if the games we play with Ange were extra and not something one has to go through and Battler and Erika's duel in the VN is pretty meaningless compared to the manga's one where Erika shows all her coolness by solving Umineko bit by bit and basically by continuing the fight she had with Battler while the duel on closed rooms on the VN just seemed a way to fill space.

Honestly I'll change Ep 7 as well, as it contains huge parts that are nothing else but a repeat of what we already knew (like Kuwadorian Beatrice's death) or written in a not really emotionally involving way. Honestly I got bored during the bits with Maria and Jessica. Yes, they give some additional info but not only Will said he already had solved Umineko with only the first 4 games, so he didn't need those bits, but the only key information on them for his solution is that Lion isn't present when Beatrice as a witch exists.

Note that right in Ep 1 it's established the legend of the witch was created by Kinzo's wife to scare Rudolf and co from going in the forest (as wolves weren't scary enough for Rudolf) and the siblings later retold it to Battler and co so there's no reason why Lion's existence would stop the legend from existing as it was created prior to his birth and spread by people that weren't Kinzo. The only difference would be in the fact there would be less pranks on the island for which to blame Beatrice, but not that there wouldn't be a witch.

Oh and the pacing of Yasu's story, with the constant interruptions to interview other people was annoying as well. A smoother narration, as far as I'm involved, would have been preferable.

Some more development about Genji would have also be apprecciated. Genji doesn't get developed not even in our confession. Why do he accept to take part to Yasu's plan? It couldn't be money. It shouldn't be lack of moral as he doesn't apprecciate what Kinzo did to Beatrice... unless Genji has a double standard and rape isn't okay to him but serial murder is perfectly fine.

And I think I would have enjoyed some more time spent on giving us a better background about Battler, his mother's death and why his life with his grandparents busied him so.

Also a mention about how Shannon and Kanon look alike or that no one were to deny they were related. One of the things I disliked the most about the ShKanon solution was that no one, not even Erika with her super observation powers, noticed they've exactly teh same face.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah I think there are so many basic points that are unclear that it's very hard to find a common framework in which to discuss the deeper meaning of the series. I do think that Ryukishi fully intended for the ep7 Tea Party to be taken as the truth though, even if he didn't really make that clear enough (and perhaps screwed himself over by making his readers distrust everything in the narrative).

Anyway, I guess you can only discuss one thing for so long. I hope to see you all again, When Something Else Cries

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I'm curious about what people think that Ryukishi could and should have done better. Imagine: you are suddenly back in time, and in the perhaps unenviable position of being Ryukishi's editor, and magically (clearly, you as an editor are both a witch and a time traveler) he is both fully receptive to your editorial intervention and has plenty of time to write or rewrite. What would you have him do? In the end it's probably both a matter of what makes for the best story and what the magical editor personally wants from the story..

Answering my own question here...

The difficulty of working out what I would change in Umineko really reflects the way I've consumed it. Although I do enjoy looking at the mysteries of the series, I've enjoyed that in retrospect and in the fandom. Reading the VNs for the first time was all about the entertainment value and enjoying the ride for me. Yes, Ryukishi is clearly a flawed writer, but I was pretty happy with Ryukishi almost all the time. Granted, I went the Umineko anime -> Umineko eps 5-8 -> Umineko eps 1-4 route, and while I like the anime it's not the same as the VN in terms of coherency. My attitude might be pickier if I'd read the VN from the start.

So, the changes I would make are:

I would bump up the difficulty level of ep 3, and perhaps of eps 5 and 6. I'd be reluctant to touch eps 5 and 6 too much, since they're my favourites of the series, but I do think the mysteries could use toughening despite it being the answers arc. Ryukishi was originally going to make ep 3 really tough, and that's something I'd like to see.

There are several characters, like Gohda, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Genji, Hideyoshi, Virgilia and Ronove who don't get enough time and importance allotted to them. I'd give them more time and more plot relevance. The ep 8 manga has done some of that rather nicely for Genji's background, and it's a real pity that none of that content was in the VN. I'd especially like to know more about how Kumasawa/Nanjo/Genji felt about aiding and abetting Kinzo in locking up Beatrice 2 and trying to make her her mother resurrected. The most we seem to have got is Genji thinking "Woah, can't let that happen again! Let's take measures to secretly put Lion in the bosom of the family and hope nothing bad happens." And that is not enough. Surely, if it's not a simple plot device, Kumasawa/Nanjo/Genji have to have more depth in their reactions than that.

If there have to be parallels between Kinzo and Battler present in Battler's initial cold treatment of chick Beato, something more needs to be done with them. I don't know what, but something. As it is, it's a bit creepy and vague.

In ep 7, I would fill in a lot more of the gap in Yasu's time before the final conference. It's too lazy of Ryukishi to expect readers to simply fill that in from guesswork, even if Ryukishi thinks he's given enough hints. Readers just can't know for certain. The filled in gaps don't have to outright say whether and to what extent Yasu was a culprit, but her mindset around that time is important.

I'd have the manga version of the hide and seek party for Ange adapted into the VN. Things like Kyrie's reaction to finding out Rudolf's secret and Rosa and Maria's interaction while hiding in Rosa's old room are a million times better than the conversations in the puzzle party. Much as I liked the puzzles, they can go to the extras section or something.

I would have Ryukishi spend more time explaining the Court of Heaven and the demon communities in the meta world. I want more coherency about where Dlanor and Will and their co-workers are from and what they do. I'd also make Ryukishi drastically re-write the City of Books segment. I'd want more details about the place, and maybe for them to briefly look at another fragment or meet some new characters there. Battler vs Bern would simply not happen, because I found it boring. Lambda vs Bern would definitely happen, there or shifted to elsewhere in the story, because I thought it was great.

None of that stuff about Tohya deciding not to put Eva's diary on display at the last minute. We would get to read it, and/or it would not be a book of the one truth. I wouldn't mind if there was some ambiguity about the authorship or if sections were missing; maybe Ange could remember Eva chucking a diary onto the fire but then changing her mind and retrieving it. Regardless: Ange would not get to see anything that audience couldn't also see.

Erika would get an ending that didn't leave her stuck with Bern at the end. Something more positive.

Other than that, I'd make the trick ending less of a "you chose wrong!" ending, and I'd try to excise any of the ~a man's dream is different from a woman's dream~ stuff from the text that I possibly could. That stuff Ryukishi said in interviews was weird and unwanted. When the seagulls cried, none of that weird stuff would be left alive in the VN.

[jjblue1]

On a random note someone even worked out the three rules for Umineko?


I was thinking:
X= people start dying according to the epitaph
Y= Battler survives till the last twilight (& the island explodes)
Z= Beatrice gets the blame

[AuraTwilight]

It's more like
X = Beatrice buys off an accomplice,
Y = People have motives that could rise to killing,
Z = The bomb wipes the board clean.

The bomb is definitely Rule Z, but Bernkastel has strongly implied that rules X and Y are constantly changing as variables, which is why she can't trial-and-error her way through Beatrice's game.

[theacefrehley]

I don't remember if the rules X/Y/Z from Higurashi are supposed to mirror the rules from Umineko, so:

In Higurashi:
X: Someone will go paranoid (random factor)
Y: Tomitake and Takano will die (fixed factor)
Y: Atmosphere surrounding the Sonozaki, making them look like the culprits. Sonozaki Bluff (the element making the truth harder to see)

If I try to mirror that
X: Someone will be chosen to be an accomplice at random
Y: In the end, everybody dies (if things go according to plan)
Z: Beatrice bluffing that she is behind the murders even in prime, when it is in fact someone else (island blowing up helps the bluff)

[AuraTwilight]

I remember that Higurashi didn't have a 'random' factor, since Bernkastel specifically describes it as a thing that is beaten by her Trial-and-Error endurance tactics. That Beatrice's rules don't parallel her own situation is why Bern is explicitly terrified of her power.

[theacefrehley]

In the prologue of Minagoroshi-hen, they pretty much describe the rules:

Rule X: "A random individual, overrun by paranoia, is urged to commit murder"
Rule Y: "Every year, Tomitake Jirou and Takano Miyo get killed on the night of the Watanagashi festival"
Rule Z: "Whatever happens, the Sonozakis have a tradition of bluffing, pretending to be the culprit. In order to appear more influential, the Sonozakis pretend to be responsible for any event that they could use to their advantage"

[Drifloon]

So, I happened to ask akatokuro from Stupid Goats about some of the Ryukishi quotes she seemed to have access to that I've not seen here on AnimeSuki. I got some pretty interesting responses:

I lurk around the Umineko threads 2ch and the Umineko tags on Twitter a lot; there were scans of a booklet - though I’m not sure from which one - with Ryukishi talking about things in EP8, where he discussed not being sure what to do with Will and Lion and then eventually settling down into them more or less just being cameos at the party. (It’s also where he talked about his original idea of Black Will working for Bern - he brought it up again later when answering questions on Twitter.)

You might have seen the “Ryukishi’s original idea for Gohda was for him to be having an affair with Natsuhi” thing floating around; that was also from 2ch, who were posting quotes about the various characters from some booklet (maybe the same one?) from Ryukishi too. Those quotes also included things like “Hanyuu is a spawn from Featherine when Featherine’s horns got damaged, and eventually grew to be a different existence” and one of the various direct confirmations of Bernkastel = Rika. ruriair directly translated a few of them a while back, though I understand if people want to take it with a grain of salt, because fuck if I can find those posts through hundreds of thousands of archived 2ch posts now, so it’s pretty much my word on the Gohda/Natsuhi thing!

As for other interviews, there was another one that comes to mind that 2ch was tossing about with Ryukishi talking about the “women are more inclined to understand Umineko” thing in depth - he talked specifically about how works aimed towards women tended to be more open to exploring the darker, more painful sides of love, as opposed to works aimed towards men, which were more focused on a “pure” (read: moe) portrayal of love. You’ve also probably seen the one where Ryukishi talked about Yasu’s decision to commit suicide on the boat in order to close the catbox forever, and prevent any of her loves from being erased.

The one about the 'women are more inclined to understand' quote is of particular interest, I think, since that quote is something that has been brought up a lot around here.

She also posted some Japanese scans of an interview, I wonder if anyone here could try to translate some of that?

[theforgot3n1]

Where was the idea of "shkannon" first introduced in ep 1-4, other than them never being in the same room together. Like, couldn't you discard that as a simple coincidence? Must be more to it.

[AuraTwilight]

It's pretty obvious in retrospect; not just that they are never in the same room together, but also that they are both the only ones who can interact with Beatrice before 1986, are the only 'real' characters who can remember other Gameboards, and their dialog makes it pretty clear that they're essentially more deeply connected to Beatrice than any other characters in the series.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Drifloon

She also posted some Japanese scans of an interview, I wonder if anyone here could try to translate some of that?

I need to find out where these scans are from, that one I absolutely want to have.

Well, I hope nobody else is already translating and I'm doing this work for nothing, but just to have a short overview over what I found in these 3 pages that I didn't know so far (or maybe didn't remember) and found interesting to note.

• The act of Battler and Eva-Beato closing the door at the end of EP8 was meant to clearly show that real Battler and real Eva actively worked to hide the truth.
• Ryukishi meant to include more nods towards Japanese detective/mystery fiction in EP7 with Will battling against the Edogawa Ranko Squad. Additional Characters would have also included the Three Torture Sisters, among them Ayatsuji Yukiko and Shimada Souko (based on Ayatsuji Yukito and Shimada Souji who I mentioned before).
• He would have liked to form something like Bernkastel's 4 Generals, or something like an antagonist squad, but he dropped Black Will because he found him too distracting from Battler.
• He planned to have Ange change into her witch form after she awakened from the evil influence in EP8, but couldn't decide on a design.
• He again says that he had one single truth all laid out and can say that it exists in Red.
• He also concludes that in part due to his writing being insufficient the motives didn't really become clear, but partial fault also lies with people without experience in love (especially men).
• He says that female readers are more likely to think about several aspects of love, while most male fans will concentrate on ideals, like moe, and will see "making out with their favorite girl" as the highest goal.

[Captain Bluebeard]

While I loved the shit out of EP8 while reading it because it was a very enjoyable ride, heck it was sloppily written! This seems to be the case with all of Chiru, but it is especially apparent in EP8, and this only proves Ryukishi is aware of this himself. I think he had said in an interview with Keiya that he'd like to go back and re-write Umineko all over again if he's still writing after ten years or something, I'm starting to feel like that would be the best thing that could happen to the series.

Btw, wow, sexism again? Seriously?

[GoldenLand]

Thanks for posting that info, Drifloon! And the information from that interview is amazing. Thanks for the quick overview of it, Haguruma!

Originally Posted by haguruma

Ryukishi meant to include more nods towards Japanese detective/mystery fiction in EP7 with Will battling against the Edogawa Ranko Squad. Additional Characters would have also included the Three Torture Sisters, among them Ayatsuji Yukiko and Shimada Souko (based on Ayatsuji Yukito and Shimada Souji who I mentioned before).

It's a tragedy that he never wrote that into Umineko. Someone needs to tie him to a chair and get him to write a side story about Will vs Edogawa Ranko, with more Japanese mystery influences included. Honestly, I always liked Will better than Battler, so Will distracting from Battler a little bit in Chiru wouldn't have been all that bad. (Not, I hasten to add, that I hate Battler.)

Makes me want to go and read some Edogawa Rampo books. Looks as if the ones I could get hold of are The Fiend with Twenty Faces, The Black Lizard, and Moju. Moju's description is a bit too much on the gory side for me, so I'll skip that one.

Originally Posted by haguruma

He says that female readers are more likely to think about several aspects of love, while most male fans will concentrate on ideals, like moe, and will see "making out with their favorite girl" as the highest goal.

Wow, that's a pretty bad insult towards the male fanbase. With this and other things Ryukishi's said before, I think the best attitude may be to outright ignore anything he says about gender. Women: you are ethereal creatures up on a pedestal who care only about love and have no practical concerns. Rudolf Men: you only care about legacies, moe and making out.

Originally Posted by haguruma

He also concludes that in part due to his writing being insufficient the motives didn't really become clear, but partial fault also lies with people without experience in love (especially men).

For a second I was thinking that was a commentary about the motives of the characters in the series, maybe Battler and George, and whatever part they played in the tragedy, which would have been an interesting thing for him to say. But at second glance, he's probably talking about the audience, isn't he? Ryukishiiiiiii.

Captain Bluebird, you and Ryukishi are probably right about him needing to go and overhaul Umineko. Much as I love the series it could use that re-write badly.

[battle22]

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

While I loved the shit out of EP8 while reading it because it was a very enjoyable ride, heck it was sloppily written! This seems to be the case with all of Chiru, but it is especially apparent in EP8, and this only proves Ryukishi is aware of this himself. I think he had said in an interview with Keiya that he'd like to go back and re-write Umineko all over again if he's still writing after ten years or something, I'm starting to feel like that would be the best thing that could happen to the series.

Btw, wow, sexism again? Seriously?

All over Chiru? Come on.

Episode 7 beats whole Rondo.

[Renall]

I'm curious: Which aspect of feminine-oriented love is it that makes you decide to kill yourself over things you know aren't actually true, and why is that in any way an admirable thing and not a sign of serious depression or severe mental illness? I guess I'm just too male to understand.

Nevermind that the characters in his own story contradict these weird notions he keeps advancing in interviews:

• Natsuhi cares about honor and her legacy, Krauss is willing to destroy his to save his wife and daughter from humiliation.
• Rosa's two-faced attitude toward her daughter is based on how she looks to other people and how Maria's behavior reflects on her. The complexity of her relationship with Maria is precisely because love is more complex than that, something any reader would've gotten out of ep4.
• Speaking of which, isn't Maria kind of an idealist whose understanding of love is fairly simplistic? Ange, a female character, was critical of that view, but Ange herself didn't exactly have the most nuanced view of love either, as she couldn't understand what might motivate Eva to conceal what she knew other than pure malice.
• Eva's motives in general are entirely too complicated to meet either summarization he's provided. Eva is a flawed character who loves status and money and her legacy but is also a mother who demanded the best from her capable son because she knew he could succeed and a tragic figure who had everything taken from her and yet still committed herself to raising the daughter of the people who might very well have killed her family, or at the very least whom she lost at the same time. All while knowing things she felt she couldn't ever tell Ange, to the point that she was willing to risk the mother-daughter relationship she desperately wanted and become someone Ange despised. Yeah we can definitely summarize her attitude toward love in a sentence or two, right?
• Actually, so are Battler's. If anything, what Ryukishi is suggesting is a flaw that Yasu committed in oversimplifying Battler's character and suggesting that he cared more about ideals (what his perfect woman would look like) and forgot everything of substance (his prior relationship with Shannon). Like boobs and a wig will completely bamboozle a kid who used to unravel mystery stories with her. Yasu based this characterization on... nothing. Absolutely nothing. He didn't call her? She didn't call him! Clearly George must've rubbed off on her more than she thought, which is a fascinating angle that was never touched on in any way. But at the very least there seem to be hints that Battler was in reality closer to his post-ascension attitudes and empathy than Beatrice may have figured.
• The catbox and the mystery and the story and etc. etc. etc. are all so important to Beatrice that she's willing to commit suicide and seal off that mystery forever in the exact form that she prefers for it. How is that not looking forward to the future and envisioning ideals? Nevermind that pairing her various characters off can only really make sense in the context of the legacy she leaves behind for people to comprehend. Her motives are more meaningful than that, but that's precisely why this breakdown doesn't really make sense.
• Will, the guy who understands the truth of Clair's heart... uh... is a dude. A dude with specific training toward a rationalist, orthodox mindset one might characterize as more typical for a male reader. Apparently he had no trouble with both understanding the how of the mystery but also the why and how best to solve it while respecting all of that, so why should every other male reader be less capable?
• Lambda clearly sees Bern as her waifu. She's always going on about how cute Bern is and how she wants to play with her and entrap her and mess with her and well basically Bern is to her like going moe over Rika or whatever was to Higurashi readers. I suppose you can argue she's a parody of that, but your gender argument becomes weird when your parody takes the form of a female character, because it muddies the waters of your argument.
• Also the author is male. Isn't it sort of the height of arrogance to say "Well, you know, I'm sure women know what I'm talking about. You dudes will just get too distracted with all the cute girls I threw in there?" Okay, so either you shouldn't have thrown so many distractions in there or you're full of shit and have no idea what you're even talking about, which is odd, because your characters seem to understand this perfectly fine.

The author seems to possess a certain lack of self-awareness of his own level of literary sophistication. Which may explain a lot of untied threads left hanging by the end of the story: They were great ideas that could've been so very interesting, but the author had no idea how great some of them actually were and so never actually followed up on them. But more to the point, this weird angle he keeps harping on appears to be completely unrelated to the text he has actually provided for his readers, a text which touches on much broader and deeper themes in a more complex manner through considerably more three-dimensional characters. Does he not know how well some of his own characters were written?