Toradora! - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

It's quite misleading if you just put it like that. It keeps the shippers hopeful.

Spoiler:

Highlighting the jealous part is very misleading.

The full text says that Ami was angry with herself for not handling it better because she wanted to be a better person. Also before Ami said the line the text describes Ami hating that Minorin is always so carefree. Also the text first said she had sympathy towards Minorin, then jealousy, then various others, and goes on to say Ami doesn't know what she wants and what to do anymore.

Sympathy here obviously means she feels sorry and knew that Minorin was and is going to go through a lot of emotional hardship, being caught in thinking that Ryuji/Taiga had something going so she burried her feelings.

Jealousy here can be interpreted - shippers would like to think that Ami is jealous of Minorin because of Ryuji's affection, but taking the full text as a whole and Ami's character it points more to the fact that instead of worrying about things and putting on a fake face like Ami herself is, she is jealous of the way Minorin handle things by that forward outlook. This is most apparent after the Sumire speech of herself being envious and wanting, but can't, be "a moron who only knows how to go straight forward". Ami was putting herself in the same shoes of Sumire and think that Minorin is the same type of straight forward people like Taiga/Ryuji who just confronts everything head on. She is jealous of the honesty of these people, which she, like Sumire, can't be.

EDIT: This is also what makes episode 4 (the "original" episode) a good episode in retrospect - it highlights this forward thinking aspect of Minorin which was never clearly explained in the novel.

Spoiler for After re-watching the scene:

I think JC Staff did a wonderful job expressing Ami's remorse with just one scene not going into details.
After Ami wispered to Minori if her guilt had been lifted there is short scene that follows where Ami was walking by herself showing if she was biting her lips, showing she had second thoughts about what she just said.
As I mentioned earlier it's these nuances that makes this show so special.

I also want to know which picture Taiga had beneath the one showing Kitamura and herself dancing.

[SuperKnuckles]

Very good episode, though Kitamura being sulky almost seemed rather out of character for him. I know that was the point, but damn, it came out rather fast and furious with him.

And it's almost painful watching Minorin, Kitamura and the gang put up a farce now that we know how they're just boiling underneath.

[LeaD36]

Kanou vs Taiga = one word

Spoiler for spoil0r:

EPIC

[typhonsentra]

Spoiler:

Most people speculate the picture was of Ryuuji and Minori finishing the race for her.

And good news, the CoalGuys subs are out so spoiler tags are no longer necessary (I just used it one last time, just in case).

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Spoiler:

Most people speculate the picture was of Ryuuji and Minori finishing the race for her.

And good news, the CoalGuys subs are out so spoiler tags are no longer necessary (I just used it one last time, just in case).

Spoiler for Concerning the picture beneath:

From what I have heard, it's actually a picture of Taiga and Ryuji.
If you listen closely the girl who picked up the student booklet, she noticed that there was another picture underneath and was about to turn it over when she was interrupted by Ami pulling the booklet out of her hands before she witnessed what was underneath, sugesting that Ami knew what it was.
In a later episode, I heard that Ryuji witnesses the picture providing a glimps of Tiga's hidden affection towards Ryuji making it difficult for him to step forward to Minori.

[Schacko]

Originally Posted by apr

Same.
I haven't actually been following the anime, just talking to friends who do, and this episode makes it apparent that the anime studio has simply failed. Everywhere I look (here, blogs, even 2ch) people are asking "what guilt?" and the novel readers have to come out and fill in the gaps. I think they've stuffed the show too full of pop culture jokes while skimping on important plot bits.

I guess they didn't fail. Maybe, or at least I think so, they will bring light into the situation with the next episode. Ami going, then running away and biting her teeth is the perfect cliffhanger for the next ep. because everyone goes "WTF?!"

Btw. where the fuck can I get those novels everyone is speaking about?! Are they only in jap. and there are no english translations or does amazon fail me again?! XD

[roan]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Spoiler:

Most people speculate the picture was of Ryuuji and Minori finishing the race for her.

Spoiler:

It's not Ryuuji AND Minori. It's just Ryuuji.

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Spoiler for Concerning the picture beneath:

In a later episode, I heard that Ryuji witnesses the picture providing a glimps of Tiga's hidden affection towards Ryuji making it difficult for him to step forward to Minori.

Spoiler:

No. He does see the picture later on, but he doesn't realize it's significance.

[typhonsentra]

Okay, after watching this episode I gotta say I'm very disappointed in the way they changed Kitamura's reason for behaving the way he did.

Spoiler:

In the original he never planned to confess to Sumire, he merely wanted to spend more time with her. When her plans got moved up earlier than expected though he freaked out as he was told the clock had already run out, he wasn't prepared. On top of that, she was going to be doing something he could never hope to do (Study overseas and become an astronaut), he was jealous and didn't feel worthy of her.

I felt like this reason and explanation was much more relatable for someone at his age.

Spoiler:

It's not Ryuuji AND Minori. It's just Ryuuji.

Spoiler:

I chose that picture as it'd be the one that'd carry the most significance to her.

On top of that the only other picture of him I remember them mentioning was a "Scary" one of him running. It doesn't really matter which it was though... but we do get to see the picture down the line?

[roan]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Okay, after watching this episode I gotta say I'm very disappointed in the way they changed Kitamura's reason for behaving the way he did.

Spoiler:

In the original he never planned to confess to Sumire, he merely wanted to spend more time with her. When her plans got moved up earlier than expected though he freaked out as he was told the clock had already run out, he wasn't prepared. On top of that, she was going to be doing something he could never hope to do (Study overseas and become an astronaut), he was jealous and didn't feel worthy of her.

I felt like this reason and explanation was much more relatable for someone at his age.

Spoiler:

I chose that picture as it'd be the one that'd carry the most significance to her.

On top of that the only other picture of him I remember them mentioning was a "Scary" one of him running. It doesn't really matter which it was though... but we do get to see the picture down the line?

Spoiler:

Sorry, but that's not the impression I got from the volume 5 Japanese　(in reference to Minori and Ryuuji finishing the race together being a picture she'd want to keep).

The scary face one is exactly the one she picked. At least from the Japanese, I got more of the impression that when Ryuuji pointed out the Kitamura picture, she was really looking or more like focussed on the Ryuuji one. That's the one that really made her happy - and in fact, the race got painful for Taiga when Minori joined, going by the way the writing and scenery descriptions went (the Ryuuji + Minori relay finisher hurt).

[SageGaiGar]

Originally Posted by Schacko

I guess they didn't fail. Maybe, or at least I think so, they will bring light into the situation with the next episode. Ami going, then running away and biting her teeth is the perfect cliffhanger for the next ep. because everyone goes "WTF?!"

Btw. where the fuck can I get those novels everyone is speaking about?! Are they only in jap. and there are no english translations or does amazon fail me again?! XD

Spoiler for novel translation:

You can find an english translation at www. baka-tsuki.net

[Bordix]

Damn, the story about the picture thing, makes me wanna read the novels >.>. I've got to stop reading spoilers

edit: Is this season gonna reach vol 8?

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Was it really a taunt? Or was Ami trying to be the "good guy" acting mature and telling Minori to stop preventing herself from chasing love?

After that speech, Minori may have been more relieved than troubled.

Hence my adding quotation marks over the word "taunt", because Ami wasn't really doing that to Minorin out of malice.

[Ashlotte]

Well that was certainly...something. I'll freely admit to not having alot of interest in Kitamura, but it was still quite the enjoyable episode if only for the rather trainwreck feel of most of it.

[Led_Zeppelin]

I like this ep...

But i felt that the chat between ryuuji and kitamura, it was too simplified...

Kitamura's reasons (in the novel) felt more deeper than just "she's going to america, and now my plan is ruin"...

But like others said before, an adaptation of 48 minutes (the average is 2 chapter per novel, right?) doesn't give much time...

And other thing, and is a personal observation...

I felt quite akaward in the parts of the confessions (specially the kitamura's line "thank you very much"), but becouse i'm from a part of the world (argentina) where we're much of the type "punch first, ask later" even in junior high...

Well maybe i'm not to familiar with the (only a japanese??) concept of "love confession"...

BYE....VIVA ZEPPELIN!!!!!

BTW 9/10...

[technomo12]

Spoiler for one word:

EPIC

Spoiler for Good parts:

The fight scene was soo effing awesome!!!!

[BetoJR]

Very enjoyable episode. 10/10
Poor Kitamura... Poor Taiga... Poor Amin...
I mean, this is just a big effing train wreck, isn't it?

Now, as for the people who claim to never having seen girls/women behaving like the two topical ones in this episode, I only have this to say: you're very lucky for never experiencing something like it. Or to have participated in something like it. It's very, very dangerous.
Hazardous to one's health.

[physics223]

Well, as always here's my take on the episode:

Toradora - 16 Impressions and Reflections

I hope you read and enjoy it.

[HayashiTakara]

Wow, this was a powerful episode. it was great!

[Fran~]

This episode is full of win...

11 of 10.

[ThinkTank]

The only reason that Ami says that to minori is because she has an idea of what is going through minori's head atm.

The handbook was snatched away before the second photo could be confirmed. The person that stuffed Taiga's handbook into her pocket while wearing a slightly depressed smile, looking like a wise angel, was Ami.

"Come, let's all help to clean up... To all the seniors, I'm extremely sorry about this incident, the tiger from our class is just too..."

"No, it's not Kawashima's fault."

"Right, don't worry, cheer up!"

The situation would become like this with a bat of Ami's delicate eyelashes. The students of 2-C helped their seniors clear up the mess. Only one person stood motionless, her eyes scrunched up into a line.

The usual cheerful smile had disappeared from Minori's face as she seemed to be deep in thought. She seemed as if she had suddenly thought of something, then wrinkling her eyebrows to try to forget something, and then shaking her head. Looking at her, Ami seemed to understand what was going on.
Ami made a move to get up, but thought better of it, instead crouching back down to continue tidying the notes that were scattered on the floor. But she noticed the weight of the student handbook in her pocket, and stopped what she was doing once again, thinking of that person's usual actions. Ami also stood up expressionless like Minori. She won't sympathize with her! Although she didn't sympathize...

"..."

I guess they didn't get the point across that Ami isn't just a vicious person. She also is the type that can read others very well. Most of the misunderstanding could have been solved with a quick scene that showed more interaction than just that simple dialogue. Maybe the next episode will flesh the scene out more.