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HasuMasu · 2012-05-10, 08:02

^ Spray and pray, anybody can do it! Case in point: XBox Live.

GDB · 2012-05-10, 08:09

That only works if you know it's nearby. Otherwise you could be firing into the air above every state/country/etc in the Atlantic while it's hovering over Oklahoma.

HasuMasu · 2012-05-10, 08:15

^ I remember a brief scene in the beginning of Iron Man where they were testing a missile.

Just send a couple of those particular ones, you know what they do...

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2012-05-10, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It can survive losing two engines out of four. Also, it isn't meant to be attacked; that's why it doesn't have cannons. Just like any normal carrier, it is used for force projection. To increase the range its fighters can reach. It's main defence is cloaking.

They only got discovered because Loki's staff gave away their location.

Kind of missed my point, I'm not talking movie physics. Those 4 engines wouldn't be enough. Losing one would probably be catastrophic IRL, or at the very least it would have some massive tilt towards the side lacking an engine, what if the two bow engines got taken out? That and I think those rotors are too small to begin with. It would have to push almost 100,000 tons which is the weight of a Nimitz carrier (a jumbo is 3000 tons).

Yeah I know that aircraft carriers aren't supposed to be front line vehicles (that's why they have multiple escorts), but neither was that thing and it almost got destroyed.

Yeah rule of cool and all, but almost broke my suspension of disbelief.

ReddyRedWolf · 2012-05-10, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detective-san

^ I remember a brief scene in the beginning of Iron Man where they were testing a missile.

Just send a couple of those particular ones, you know what they do...

Those micro-missiles seems to be a callback to Jericho.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-05-10, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Yeah I know that aircraft carriers aren't supposed to be front line vehicles (that's why they have multiple escorts), but neither was that thing and it almost got destroyed.

And? You yourself agreed that an aircraft carrier is not designed to be used as a defensive fortification. So what's the big deal about how it was seriously compromised after enemy infiltration? It was never meant to be indestructible, or there would never have been a need to install invisibility.

Do you think the Carrier is suppose to be the Death Star?

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2012-05-10, 09:44

No i dont expect it to be a death star, thats stupid (although it does have a similar fatal weakness!).That cloak merely prevents visual detection from bellow, not above, never mind the heat signature. The only reason i mentioned 'carriers not being front line vehicles' is becuase you mentioned regular aircraft carriers which always operate with a support group, so even despite it's cloak it has little in the way of support. It it has support vessels the attack in the movie probably would not have gone as well as it did. Regardless, a flying fortress is a ridiculous liability. That's the point I'm making, there is no real point in arguing it. The Pentagon would probably love one but they know (disregard technology) that they are not viable. They'd have been better off with a submersible aircraft carrier al la the Tuatha de Danaan. In fact I'd probably have preferred that, regardless of how awesome the thing looked.

Typed on phone.

Anh_Minh · 2012-05-10, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Well, it's supposed to be stealthed beyond compare. How do you hit a target you can't see, and don't know is there?

Shoot at the sound? Or use superior technology. (Like an evil Stark couldn't whip up a detector in a cave from spare parts... Even if no villain is quite as good as he is, they can always compensate by working in a better lab than an Afghan cave.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It can survive losing two engines out of four.

The attack was ridiculously low intensity. One finger sized explosive fired from a bow and a bunch of guys with rifles. And it only went so well for the good guys because Iron Man was on board.

Quote:

Also, it isn't meant to be attacked; that's why it doesn't have cannons.

Carriers also have escorts. And can't be sunk by something smaller than a hand grenade. And there's all kind of fatal damage it can take while still leaving open the possibility of abandoning ship.

Quote:

Just like any normal carrier, it is used for force projection. To increase the range its fighters can reach. It's main defence is cloaking.

They only got discovered because Loki's staff gave away their location.

So what about the next time they have to take some detectable thing on board? Or they're spotted by the comings and goings of jets? Or their cloaking is seen through by the very "powerful aliens" they so fear?

And my point wasn't about viability, as such. It was about whether the benefits of being high in the sky outweighed the risks. The risks are obvious. What are the benefits?

hyl · 2012-05-10, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And my point wasn't about viability, as such. It was about whether the benefits of being high in the sky outweighed the risks. The risks are obvious. What are the benefits?

Dropping the cage in which Loki was captured from the sky incase he was trying funny.

Anh_Minh · 2012-05-10, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyl

Dropping the cage in which Loki was captured from the sky incase he was trying funny.

Eh. Survivable. And they didn't need a whole carrier to do that. A few weather balloons would have done the trick.

hyl · 2012-05-10, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Eh. Survivable. And they didn't need a whole carrier to do that. A few weather balloons would have done the trick.

It was said by i think it was Fury that it was originally meant to kill off the hulk. Also Thor might or might not have survived the fall if he didn't have mjolnir to break the cage open before he fell on the ground.
Before dropping Thor Loki even said to Thor something like if Asgardian gods are truly immortal or not. So i think the fall could have potentially killed them.

Anh_Minh · 2012-05-10, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyl

It was said by i think it was Fury that it was originally meant to kill off the hulk.

We've seen how falling from there worked out for him.

And the balloon remark works just as well for him.

Quote:

Also Thor might or might not have survived the fall if he didn't have mjolnir to break the cage open before he fell on the ground.

And what, exactly, does breaking the cage change? Especially so late in the game? It's like jumping from a crashing plane just before it hits the ground. It won't save you.

Quote:

Before dropping Thor Loki even said to Thor something like if Asgardian gods are truly immortal or not. So i think the fall could have potentially killed them.

I think not even they know the limits of their toughness. Or how hard such a fall would be.

hyl · 2012-05-10, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And what, exactly, does breaking the cage change? Especially so late in the game? It's like jumping from a crashing plane just before it hits the ground. It won't save you.

To break the velocity speed, because Thor can fly. Instead of jumping of a plane crashing airplane, i see it like getting out of a sinking ship.
Why else was he trying to break the cage if there were no risks if he dropped from such a height and he would shrugged it off like nothing.

aohige · 2012-05-10, 23:04

regardless, that cage wouldn't have done anything to the Hulk.
If anything, it looks like a cage to get rid of the Hulk from the vicinity of the ship, rather than to actually kill him.

Hell, the Hulk can take a nuclear blast at point blank range, a fall in a cage isn't going to do jack.

Ascaloth · 2012-05-10, 23:18

Come to think of it, how exactly were they planning to get the Hulk in the cage in the first place? And yes, I didn't mean Banner, I meant THE HULK. The doorways don't exactly seem big enough to fit that huge mass of muscle...

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-05-10, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Come to think of it, how exactly were they planning to get the Hulk in the cage in the first place? And yes, I didn't mean Banner, I meant THE HULK. The doorways don't exactly seem big enough to fit that huge mass of muscle...

That's why the door is small. It's meant to fit Banner through, not Hulk. You can't get Banner in the cage other than he did it willingly.

Ascaloth · 2012-05-10, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's why the door is small. It's meant to fit Banner through, not Hulk. You can't get Banner in the cage other than he did it willingly.

Sure, like that worked so well when something causes Banner to start Hulking out outside the cage in the Helicarrier, like happened in the movie. Efficient protocol there, relying on Banner to keep sane enough to get himself in the cage before going Hulk.

bhl88 · 2012-05-10, 23:40

Loki: [Hulk throws Loki] ENOUGH! You are, all of you, beneath me. I am a god you dull creature, and I will not be bullied by...
The Hulk: [smashes him against the floor] Puny god.

creb · 2012-05-10, 23:46

The Avengers managed to capture the comic book feel; the snappy dialog and humor.

That's something most of the comic book movies have failed to do in the past.

That said, Iron Man basically stole the show, with characters like the Black Widow seemingly afterthoughts. It's hard for me to view it as the Avengers, and not just Iron Man 3.

JokerD · 2012-05-10, 23:54

I like the interaction of Bruce with Tony, feels like 2 old friends connecting with each other. Black Widow's fear of Bruce in the scenes where they were together was nice as well.

Question, since the helicarrier was cloaked after they lifted off, why was the cloak not on when the attack happeded? Or was the cloaking scene just to show off? (or decloak to let the 'supply plane' know where to land)

2012-05-10, 08:02	Link #301
HasuMasu Senior Member Artist Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: The Middle Way	^ Spray and pray, anybody can do it! Case in point: XBox Live. __________________

2012-05-10, 08:15	Link #303
HasuMasu Senior Member Artist Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: The Middle Way	^ I remember a brief scene in the beginning of Iron Man where they were testing a missile. Just send a couple of those particular ones, you know what they do... __________________

2012-05-10, 09:44	Link #307
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	No i dont expect it to be a death star, thats stupid (although it does have a similar fatal weakness!).That cloak merely prevents visual detection from bellow, not above, never mind the heat signature. The only reason i mentioned 'carriers not being front line vehicles' is becuase you mentioned regular aircraft carriers which always operate with a support group, so even despite it's cloak it has little in the way of support. It it has support vessels the attack in the movie probably would not have gone as well as it did. Regardless, a flying fortress is a ridiculous liability. That's the point I'm making, there is no real point in arguing it. The Pentagon would probably love one but they know (disregard technology) that they are not viable. They'd have been better off with a submersible aircraft carrier al la the Tuatha de Danaan. In fact I'd probably have preferred that, regardless of how awesome the thing looked. Typed on phone. __________________

2012-05-10, 23:04	Link #314
aohige ( ಠ_ಠ) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep	regardless, that cage wouldn't have done anything to the Hulk. If anything, it looks like a cage to get rid of the Hulk from the vicinity of the ship, rather than to actually kill him. Hell, the Hulk can take a nuclear blast at point blank range, a fall in a cage isn't going to do jack. __________________

2012-05-10, 23:40	Link #318
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	Loki: [Hulk throws Loki] ENOUGH! You are, all of you, beneath me. I am a god you dull creature, and I will not be bullied by... The Hulk: [smashes him against the floor] Puny god. __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3

2012-05-10, 08:09	Link #302
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	That only works if you know it's nearby. Otherwise you could be firing into the air above every state/country/etc in the Atlantic while it's hovering over Oklahoma.

2012-05-10, 23:18	Link #315
Ascaloth I don't give a damn, dude Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In Despair Age: 37	Come to think of it, how exactly were they planning to get the Hulk in the cage in the first place? And yes, I didn't mean Banner, I meant THE HULK. The doorways don't exactly seem big enough to fit that huge mass of muscle...

2012-05-10, 23:46	Link #319
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	The Avengers managed to capture the comic book feel; the snappy dialog and humor. That's something most of the comic book movies have failed to do in the past. That said, Iron Man basically stole the show, with characters like the Black Widow seemingly afterthoughts. It's hard for me to view it as the Avengers, and not just Iron Man 3. __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake.

2012-05-10, 23:54	Link #320
JokerD Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	I like the interaction of Bruce with Tony, feels like 2 old friends connecting with each other. Black Widow's fear of Bruce in the scenes where they were together was nice as well. Question, since the helicarrier was cloaked after they lifted off, why was the cloak not on when the attack happeded? Or was the cloaking scene just to show off? (or decloak to let the 'supply plane' know where to land)