sola - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Spoiler for general impressions after episode 8:

While I'm far away from the idea of defending Aono's actions, I'm still waiting a little bit before giving a judgement.

There's still something missing in the puzzle. We have now seen how Aono and Yorito were related in the past, it's not explained if they were actual siblings or just childhood friends.
Also it's not explained why they ended up living in a cave with Matsuri.
Above all, it's not explained their connection with Matsuri. Where does she come from? How did she come to know them? Was Matsuri a Yaka in the first place? If she became one along the way, exactly how and when?

There's a whole lot of background missing, and while Aono's actions, born from apparent pure selfishness and egocentrism, seem to be unforgivable, they could be put under a different light if some other data would be given.

Not to mention, we still know nearly nothing about Takeshi and Mayuko. And I don't think they have a side role in this story, it's actually all the other way around.

After 8 episodes out of 13, I have to charge this as a blame to the anime. We still know too little. Each episode keeps providing past and present events with a 2%-98% ratio. If only the balancement were a bit adjusted, I think it would be much much better for the general result. Perhaps they could have used half of episode 4 for that purpose.

It's arguable and almost certain that they will provide the said background in the future, but I'm starting to fear it might be a bit too late if they don't hurry. The key for appreciate, judge, criticize, hate or eventually love characters, is to fully understand them and their actions.
With not enough background the alchemy bringing to understanding doesn't work, and not even if the background is given too late.

While I've basically always loved Matsuri since the beginning, I'm starting to wonder about some of her last behaviours, especially since the moment when she heard the name of "Aono" back in episode 6. She had a 180° turn, and while we might speculate about it, we don't have certainties. That's the frustrating part.
And while I find it hard not to blame Aono for the insane way she adopts to accomplish her goal, I still want to know all of the details before forming a final idea on the matter. And so on.

-------------------------------------

As for episode 8, a fairly good one, with some good parts (Yorito's mental shock scene, fantastic job from his seiyuu) and other clumsy ones (Yorito's dream about stabbing Matsuri, it seemed to come from a total different character design crew).
I liked the cliffhanger at the ending since it is a nice set up for next week. Though I find it hard to believe that one between Aono and Matsuri is going to die that soon.

More thoughts on this episode to come later.

[Telliamed]

The animation in the d**** was fine. It's supposed to look wierd, Emphasizes the distress.

[felix]

I won't argue at this point that Aono's not some villain of the show, =/
But all you people that name her demon etc better not call yourselves sensible or romantic. =_=

---

Spoiler for Thoughts Ep8:

Damn this episode was so unclear, mostly seems to have only confirmed a few points which were already more or less dead obvious.
And what's with Mana being turned into a side character and all stupid, boo~ boo~

That nightmare scene was soo~ puzzling >_<
Was it just Yorito's nightmare? Was it a spell from Aono?.. what the heck was it?!
I don't think it was a spell, just Yorito's insane mind playing around. It was too awkward to be a spell. And he didn't seem have forgotten about Matsuri so what would be the point.

Right now I'm seeing Mana & Aono as the normal people (considering circumstances) and Yorito representing the people that have problems with their heads. -_O

Seriously there better be some kind of event in Yorito's past, some kind of trauma, I don't care if it brings shame on the other characters (Aono included) Yorito better not end up just thats-the-way-he-is. He is way too psycho~ and simply weird, if they don't explain anything about the way he acts and thinks then he will just become the series plot device.

Who else thinks that after something like 8eps we know little to nothing about Matsuri o_O The little we know is but trivia or sketchy stuff mostly to do with the other characters, rather then her~ ..the supposedly main character of the show!!

Spoiler for Next Ep:

I don't think Yorito will be the one who actually stops the fight, I think cloth n' glasses will come and defeat both. xP

But I hope we get some serious revelations about Matsuri.
In any case if anything Matsuri will win the fight. Aono's fighting methods are less then lethal as opposed to Matsuri's powers. Also since we know their powers originate somehow from their past, if we take them as hints then Matsuri should be the only one who can muster killer intent.

[Mueti]

Spoiler for reply to Cats:

Originally Posted by Cats

That nightmare scene was soo~ puzzling >_<
Was it just Yorito's nightmare? Was it a spell from Aono?.. what the heck was it?!
I don't think it was a spell, just Yorito's insane mind playing around. It was too awkward to be a spell. And he didn't seem have forgotten about Matsuri so what would be the point.

Since Aono want's Yorito to forget Matsuri the dream obviously wasn't her doing.

Originally Posted by Cats

Right now I'm seeing Mana & Aono as the normal people (considering circumstances) and Yorito representing the people that have problems with their heads. -_O

Mana is normal, yes. But how in the world does Aono qualify for that term? As far as we know (although we clearly don't know everything) she wants to kill Matsuri out of jealousy and selfishness. I don't think that's very normal...

Originally Posted by Cats

Seriously there better be some kind of event in Yorito's past, some kind of trauma, I don't care if it brings shame on the other characters (Aono included) Yorito better not end up just thats-the-way-he-is. He is way too psycho~ and simply weird, if they don't explain anything about the way he acts and thinks then he will just become the series plot device.

You do realize that Aono has been messing with Yorito's mind for quite some time now? He didn't know about Aono being unable to go out into the sun, was unable to recall past events...him stabbing Matsuri wasn't the first event Aono made him forget. I don't find it very strange that he would get some mental issues after recieving this kind of "treatment" multiple times.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Mueti

Spoiler for reply to Cats:

Mana is normal, yes. But how in the world does Aono qualify for that term? As far as we know (although we clearly don't know everything) she wants to kill Matsuri out of jealousy and selfishness. I don't think that's very normal...

Spoiler for Reply:

I think you misunderstood what I meant by normal.
If you think she's not normal then how come we have so many words to describe her feelings.

Originally Posted by Mueti

Spoiler for reply to Cats:

You do realize that Aono has been messing with Yorito's mind for quite some time now? He didn't know about Aono being unable to go out into the sun, was unable to recall past events...him stabbing Matsuri wasn't the first event Aono made him forget. I don't find it very strange that he would get some mental issues after recieving this kind of "treatment" multiple times.

Spoiler for Replay:

We don't really know that.
Or are you suggesting Yorito is actually some poor bum who had the looks that Aono turned into the old Yorito? Mmm~

I still think that was the first time. Or at least we're missing one big piece of the puzzle.

[octoberasian]

As Pellissier said above and as you said Cats, and I do agree:
We are still missing one more piece in this whole puzzle that will probably explain everything that ties Aono, Matsuri, and Yorito together.

(Mayuko and Takeshi will probably have some link, but probably be tangent to the main path, so to speak.)

I'd like to know more of "why" and "how", and hopefully that gets explained in the next episodes.

Spoiler:

We already getting a big (??) fight between Matsuri and Aono, and it's only just past halfway in the series. Usually stuff like that doesn't come until the second to last episode in animes. So, there is some surprise we haven't assumed yet that's going to happen next.

This episode while answered two things about Aono and Mayuko, it still brought more questions. >_<

[kct]

Seems like more questions are being created than being answered, and I know, this is totally frustrating.

And...

Spoiler for Takeshi:

It's still not explained how he came to abandon Mayuko, at least to me <.< .

[Kaoru Chujo]

In five episodes, there's time left for lots of revelations and plot and character development. I think there is more to come with Mana. If Yorito survives, she may be the only girl left, lol. And their strenuous denial of any relationship is a clear flag that one is possible. I am very happy with the pace of revelations. I don't need to know everything just yet -- frustrating as it is to end every episode with a cliffhanger.

And I want to say again how much I'm enjoying Koshimizu Ami as the loopy classmate with the strange ideas about bearded guy. She is really creating a unique character.

[felix]

Spoiler for Reply to kct:

He didn't, she left him. >_>
Can't you see he's looking for her. Not for Matsuri.

[Icerack]

Spoiler for yorito:

We don't really know that.
Or are you suggesting Yorito is actually some poor bum who had the looks that Aono turned into the old Yorito? Mmm~

I still think that was the first time. Or at least we're missing one big piece of the puzzle.

If Yorito was some poor bum who just happened to be a look-a-like AND have the same name and obsessions with taking some girl out to see the sky, then that would be one big coincidence. I think this ep provides strong evidence that Yorito's memories are being manipulated and last episode shows evidence that he doesn't hold memories for beyond the past 3 months or so. I'd concur with Aono having mind control and messing with his head.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

In five episodes, there's time left for lots of revelations and plot and character development. I think there is more to come with Mana. If Yorito survives, she may be the only girl left, lol. And their strenuous denial of any relationship is a clear flag that one is possible. I am very happy with the pace of revelations. I don't need to know everything just yet -- frustrating as it is to end every episode with a cliffhanger.

And I want to say again how much I'm enjoying Koshimizu Ami as the loopy classmate with the strange ideas about bearded guy. She is really creating a unique character.

oh no dont tell me that you are thinking that mana is able to be the dark horse :3 even if matsuri disappears again after the battle mana's role would be to pick up the shattered pieces of yorito's broken heart...and that guy is as stubbon as bricks...theres no way that he would fall for mana even if she confesses...

and bearded guys are hot...(not said by me)

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Cats

I won't argue at this point that Aono's not some villain of the show, =/
But all you people that name her demon etc better not call yourselves sensible or romantic. =_=

---

Never claimed myself to be sensible ^_^

I have one solution for Aono:

Spoiler:

That said: we are still missing some details, but as far as Aono goes - my hate for her is set in stone. I still want to know how exactly Takashi and rozen-loli tie in the middle of this, and i can only speculate what role they will play in the end...

Will post something more sensible after watching the subs ^_^

[Klashikari]

The more i observe Aono, the more it doesn't look "pure jealousy" to me.
Considering how she was calm towards Matsuri back in EP6, it isn't really normal, considering how she is struggling now.

Aono has a fearsome ability to manipulate Yorito's memories. then why didn't she make in sort that yorito hate Matsuri? (while we don't know if Aono's "brainwash" might affect one's feelings or not, grieving memories can be a lethal weapon for the heart)
Why did Aono choose her current "sister" slot on purpose?
She doesn't have the usual "LOOK ONLY AT ME", she is only hindering yorito concerning matsuri.

These 2 points don't make pretty much sense with the usual set up "emo girl, loving her step brother".
If she was that reckless, yorito would already hers for a long time.
IMO, she is kinda protecting him, from several factors which can bring him back a possible "tragedy" (thus his previous "death")

Thus, someone's theory (i'm sorry, i forgot who was the original author of this ~~) about Aono desperate attempt to prevent a disaster might be that Finding a way to let a Yaka seeing the sky might kill the caster.
Aono trashing Yorito's sky pictures is pretty much dubious (and i really don't think it is primarly linked to Matsuri), and it is really weird that Aono thinks to obliterate Matsuri only now, while she could do it from the very moment Koyori told her about matsuri.

Aono even said "i always thought it might come to this someday", which means she was prepared for a possible meeting with "new" yorito and matsuri. (i guess she had confidence with her memories jammer, but it appears that yorito's heart acted as the same as always, poor thing ~~)
And since Matsuri didn't mind her promise with Aono, and her statement she broke her promise in this ep, this is really troubling, and Matsuri X Yorito doesn't seem sane. (actually, Yorito "zombie mode", and getting revitalize with a silly picture pretty much freaked me out big time. his obsession with Matsuri is as big as Aono desperates moves to separate Him and Matsuri. This is really dubious to me.)

Anyway, too much holes, indeed...

but, i guess i'm against the odds, concerning Aono, and the big brawling bash

[Icerack]

Aono has a fearsome ability to manipulate Yorito's memories. then why didn't she make in sort that yorito hate Matsuri?

In a way she did, sort of. She made Yorito stab Matsuri. I'm not exactly sure if that'd be considered making Yorito hate her for a brief moment. Luckily, the power of love is too strong for Aono to control and we see that Yorito is really fighting off Aono's magic in this ep.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The more i observe Aono, the more it doesn't look "pure jealousy" to me.
Considering how she was calm towards Matsuri back in EP6, it isn't really normal, considering how she is struggling now.

Aono has a fearsome ability to manipulate Yorito's memories. then why didn't she make in sort that yorito hate Matsuri? (while we don't know if Aono's "brainwash" might affect one's feelings or not, grieving memories can be a lethal weapon for the heart)
Why did Aono choose her current "sister" slot on purpose?
She doesn't have the usual "LOOK ONLY AT ME", she is only hindering yorito concerning matsuri.

I think it has to do with the fact that she has "lost" to Matsuri in the past. Perhaps she is sort of "reduced" to a sister role because of Yorito's feelings for Matsuri - as much as she tries to manipulate his memories, it is obvious she can't get Matsuri out of his system for good.

Also she might fear that Yorito might run off trying to find a way to save Matsuri again, thus leaving her alone. In ep6 she was calm because Matsuri promised never to appear in front of them again. In short - Matsuri is the biggest threat she can possibly have as far as her relationship with Yorito goes, and basically she can't do much about it.

[orion]

I waiting for the subs before I comment further but..

Spoiler:

That's one important looking flashback at 18:42-18:57. So, we're to assume that Yorito is under that rubble and his apparent death was the reason for her suicide attempt. The relationship does still appear to be siblings imo. The flashback also shows a big age discrepancy there (2-4 years imo). That's too big of a discrepancy for "childhood friends" imo. Girls her age would be looking at older guys imo.

So, she either has a shotacon or a brother complex. I pick brother complex.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by orion

I waiting for the subs before I comment further but..

Spoiler:

That's one important looking flashback at 18:42-18:57. So, we're to assume that Yorito is under that rubble and his apparent death was the reason for her suicide attempt. The relationship does still appear to be siblings imo. The flashback also shows a big age discrepancy there (2-4 years imo). That's too big of a discrepancy for "childhood friends" imo. Girls her age would be looking at older guys imo.

So, she either has a shotacon or a brother complex. I pick brother complex.

and i quote myself...

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

okey right now im going to find it really hard to protect aono...

Spoiler:

so yorito didnt die or doesnt seem to have died because of matsuri...aono just took her own life because she doesnt want to be left in a world without yorito but matsuri was being a goodie two shoes and revived the dead aono...

i cant say that aono is crazy/psycho...but rather she is just obsessed with yorito...and this obsession caused her to do crazy things...im sure that its true love but at the same time i also get that true love isnt always right...yorito clearly doesnt see aono in any other way than a big sister...

but even so i didnt think aono would have minded...as long as she is with yorito ~ however when in comes matsuri she finds her relationship with yorito at threat and hence tired to give matsuri a warning...rightly so because aono was here first while matsuri is second...a simple case of "first come first serve" ~ but the inevitable happens as yorito and matsuri is fated to be together...aono is just clearly trying to go against fate...and now we have a death match situation...

she doesnt want an older guy...she wants yorito! simply put :3

[orion]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

and i quote myself...

she doesnt want an older guy...she wants yorito! simply put :3

Well, she did commit suicide after all. But the reason is why I put that there.

Spoiler:

It's either a shotacon or a brother complex leading to a bad obsession. It still points to brother complex to me.

Hitsuji no Uta vibes are starting.

[WanderingKnight]

Spoiler:

I love it to see how people are talking about hating a character we don't even know everything about yet. While I don't like Aono's doings as of now, she definitely has a reason we still don't know. I mean, one of the main points of the story development would need to be finding out what is behind Aono's actions. Until we hear about that, I'd rather refrain from saying whether I love or hate a character.

As for episode 8, thrilling catfight expected for next week.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Spoiler:

I love it to see how people are talking about hating a character we don't even know everything about yet. While I don't like Aono's doings as of now, she definitely has a reason we still don't know. I mean, one of the main points of the story development would need to be finding out what is behind Aono's actions. Until we hear about that, I'd rather refrain from saying whether I love or hate a character.

As for episode 8, thrilling catfight expected for next week.

Spoiler:

I don't need to know the reasons behind certain actions to hate the actions. Aono is nothing short of attempting a murder. Unless you are saying that it is ok to murder some one in any other case than self-defense when no other options are available/viable.

I may, or may not understand her reasons (assuming there is something more besides obsession and hate towards Matsuri) once they will be revealed, but that doesn't mean i will suddenly find her actions redeemable in any way imaginable. Murder is murder and mindraping is mindraping, and both are pretty "bad" actions, no matter how you would justify yourself. It doesn't help that i can't see her justification being much different from "I don't want to".

I might be able to feel some sympathy for her situation (as much as i would feel towards any person with mental problems), but it would be a freezing day in hell before i could empathize with her actions. The moment you start using your "reasons" to justify an immoral act, you loose the right to ask for sympathy from me, much less empathy ... at least as far as i am concerned.

For me, understanding why a person does the things he does has nothing to do with my feelings about the matter. And that is why i hate Aono - because i hate the actions she takes.