StarCraft 2

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by kramerica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_k73V4_WRs

This is the whole game in full. Okay, 196/200 instead of 200/200 lol. 5 bases, 2000+ min and gas in the bank. Just leaves. Commentators are dumbfounded. I would be too.

The worst part is that he didn't even try. Or even just throw his army at Polt at least.

Wow that was bad...

Originally Posted by Hooves

Its Idra, he quits after seeing hallucination Colossi.

lol, is this true?

[Flying Dagger]

Not sure about colossus, but he did quit one game in MLG from hallucinated voidrays.

I remember boxer once said, he stayed in a game for a long time to show idra that he should not be quitting a game so easily.

Idra seems fine now, and already announced he will not be leaving esports. He still possess a huge fanbase and to be honest, people will just treat this as a classic idra being idra act in a week or two.

One problem I have with idra is that he doesnt really like to change his playstyle much. The metagame is everchanging, and back in WoL when ling infestors became a cutting edge trend he is still sticking to the rather multitask and micro intensive mutalisk play and always seen to have a low baneling count.

This is one of the things I really hate about EG: while they give players a good salary and ways to make a living, they suck completely at supporting and developing their players. EG could have done so much with idra if they had a good strategy coach, and get idra to incorporate more timing attacks into his standard macro play: something like a roach drop, a fake 3rd into roach bane bust etc would make him 10x as deadly.

(I am aware that he tried early pool some of the games, but early pool imo is much of a coinflip, vs a well executed timing attack against an opponent who still think idra will simply try to kill them with sheer macro)


//

Watching GSTL:
team MVP looking rather weak right now imo.
Now that DRG is just a Code A level slump player they are really struggling. Other players they could have relied on in the past such as Keen and Sniper just cannot carry the weight... sigh

//

I may have spoken too soon: who the fuck is nukseo?? Its like MVP always have this one MVP that comes in and carry the team. Their team is appropriately named.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

lol, is this true?

[Flying Dagger]

Widow mine:
David Kim claims the game is really balanced at this point.
But every time I watch a TvZ, let it be NA WCS (diamond players?) or Code S GSL, I often hear the words "what a great widow mine hit!"

Yet at the same time, it is extremely extremely rare for pros to actually control their widow mine shots (vs older days controlled tank shots vs banes - as discussed by artosis et al in Meta ep4). For the most part, in TvZ a terran player just burrow the mines and pray the mines hit a big climp of banes as they run their bioball away.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Widow mine:
David Kim claims the game is really balanced at this point.
But every time I watch a TvZ, let it be NA WCS (diamond players?) or Code S GSL, I often hear the words "what a great widow mine hit!"

Yet at the same time, it is extremely extremely rare for pros to actually control their widow mine shots (vs older days controlled tank shots vs banes - as discussed by artosis et al in Meta ep4). For the most part, in TvZ a terran player just burrow the mines and pray the mines hit a big climp of banes as they run their bioball away.

It's no different from the old spidermines. It is all about positioning and detection/lack of detection.

[Flying Dagger]

Spidermines do not hit air units, or even hover units (workers).

Widowmine also has a much faster projectile. Making it much more difficult to "drag" mines.

[Archon_Wing]

There is far more mobility in sc2, so I feel the difference is justified. This allows for zone control, and not make terran mech utter garbage.

Then again this is better than "attack with your ball during specific timing window and bend over and take it via brood lords if it fails"

[Ithekro]

Or send in some Roaches or an Ultra first to suck up the damage then charge though as they rearm. Or spot them and kill them.

[Flying Dagger]

Terrans have some of the best unit synergy (they even added a hellbat<>hellion tech!), I would like to see the full arsenal of mech units being employed. Hellbats mixed in to combat lings, 2 or 3 tanks to protect (bio+mine) against banes, and thor to continue to supplement the anti-air of the bio force.

BLs is somewhat of an ugly situation to an ugly problem: zerg had no effective way to break a turtle position and rely solely on broodlords. In HotS they gained new tools such as vipers and swarmhosts against that.

BL/Infestors have been "nerf" both directly and indirectly across ZvP and ZvT. The infestor fungal+infested terran change being two direct hits, while new units and abilities, such as VR's on demand charge, tempest, medivac boost (against BL mobility), hellbats (vs broodlings)+Thor mode changes are indirect tools other races gained against BL infestor.

In the current meta widow mines are pretty much doing everything: clearing lings, banes, deterring mutas.



I am still not entirely convinced in roach hydra (or hydraling) vs terrans. Even on creep they lack the mobility and keeping the medivac count in check is still quite problematic.

[Archon_Wing]

I like how Idra "quits" [insert excuses here] after getting fired. It's like you can't fire me! I quit. He went out as he came in, like a bitch.

Though it's ultimately good for him to not chase this dream. No doubt he's a good player, but it's a very cutthroat scene and sometimes your best isn't good enough. I mean look at this very thread and look at who still plays regularly. (Myself included). No real point to waste life on it. I'm glad he learned before it was too late and did not end up like those rotting 30+ year old progamers that wasted their lives on a video game for no gain. Unless you're top of the top, nobody gives a shit about you. Hell, even the greats like Nada couldn't keep up with the times. It's pretty depressing to be a progamer. It's gotten better these days, but earlier signing a contract to be a progamer was no better than becoming a Puella Magi. The amount of kids' dreams the companies used to exploit and spit out is pretty disgusting. Making them train for hours and hours and perform for minimal pay unless you were a big name. And then releasing a bunch of adults into the workforce whose only skill and experience... is a fucking video game. This isn't to knock on progaming, but it can get ugly fast. Idra would have easily fallen into this fate if he wasn't careful.

And you have to remember, Idra does have a point and that was that early on in SC2's life span, it was mostly occupied by second rate BW rejects. Because at that point Sc2 was a second rate game. Though like Idra, people like me never got over this and could not evolve and adapt and our perception of SC2 remained the same while the game itself changed. Thus it was his best change to get known. But he blew it, and that's sort of out of his control. How are people like Flash doing anyways.

Though maybe I'm worse than Idra too. I'm merely a third rate player that sees Sc2 as a second rate game. But at least I quit when I was ahead.

[Flying Dagger]

Many aspired to be a progamer but cannot even make it through the courage tournament. They stay as B teamers or practice partners (with no benefits) and thats about it.

You can't really hate on EG: its the reality of things. Progaming is only viable if you treat the players as advisement agents. The biggest winners in the sc2 scene are not people like MVP, Life, Flash, but organizations that benefit from their existence: EG, MLG, etc.

Even though Blizzard threw out a ton of money for WCS: I really dislike the idea where only the "top players" can really benefit from the money. Blizzard should be sponsoring every "major" team out there: think Razor. As without the progaming scene, I really doubt people will spend hundreds of dollars buying their overpriced accessories.

Most progamers fade out post-25. if you are lucky (nestea), you might get a burst of dominance and progaming might end up being semi-rewarding. What will the current generation of progamers do when they turn 30? 40? 50? They cannot possibly make enough money to have a satisfying retirement plan. What can they do with their skillset? Become commentator of the current esports fad? Become professional models? Journalists?

I always wondered why blizzard doesn't at least keep a solid group of progamers as their "part time QA" team. In HotS progamers even get their own dedicated forum, but essentially they are just balancing the game for Blizzard for free (they don't even get a plane ticket to the closest launch event). Much of the success of starcraft has to do with the professional scene.

I think at the *very* least, any professional SC2 contract needs to include a full scholarship for post secondary education study. This way if even progaming doesn't work out, the player can still get a degree and join the work force.

[Ithekro]

What do they even program? They are suppose to be professional Starcraft players.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Many aspired to be a progamer but cannot even make it through the courage tournament. They stay as B teamers or practice partners (with no benefits) and thats about it.

You can't really hate on EG: its the reality of things. Progaming is only viable if you treat the players as advisement agents. The biggest winners in the sc2 scene are not people like MVP, Life, Flash, but organizations that benefit from their existence: EG, MLG, etc.

Not hating on EG. Idra was no longer cutting it, so he got cut like any team would. I think it was a good thing.

Most progamers fade out post-25. if you are lucky (nestea), you might get a burst of dominance and progaming might end up being semi-rewarding. What will the current generation of progamers do when they turn 30? 40? 50? They cannot possibly make enough money to have a satisfying retirement plan. What can they do with their skillset? Become commentator of the current esports fad? Become professional models? Journalists?

I always wondered why blizzard doesn't at least keep a solid group of progamers as their "part time QA" team. In HotS progamers even get their own dedicated forum, but essentially they are just balancing the game for Blizzard for free (they don't even get a plane ticket to the closest launch event). Much of the success of starcraft has to do with the professional scene.

I think at the *very* least, any professional SC2 contract needs to include a full scholarship for post secondary education study. This way if even progaming doesn't work out, the player can still get a degree and join the work force.

Yea really. It's definitely something that nobody has planned that far ahead.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Yea really. It's definitely something that nobody has planned that far ahead.

Isn't this what Stephano is doing? Using the earning he got to pay for his school. Though not everyone can win like Stephano, so I do agree with the notion of some kind of guarantee so that they can go back to school.

[Flying Dagger]

Stephano is very lucky, and a very smart person. Not many people can make 100k+ through winnings alone before completing their first degree.

But not everyone is so lucky. You may be signed onto a team, dedicate your life into the game, and still be terrible. Bottom line is that I believe once the "amateur" step into "progaming" territory through the signing of a team, they should be given, at the very least, a back up plan in the form of post secondary education.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

But not everyone is so lucky. You may be signed onto a team, dedicate your life into the game, and still be terrible.

What about Idra?

[Eisdrache]

No matter how you look at it, Idra was an excellent player.

[Hooves]

If only Idra fixed his rage-quit habits.

[Flying Dagger]

Idra knows enough about the game that if he really gives a shit he can probably still do well. Knowledge however is often a double edged sword (as you can also misread your opponent). Proper scouting is still a very important aspect which I believe idra have been (surprisingly) letting go of: remember his trademark pincer overlord scouts from two ends?

I think he would also benefit by employing a larger variety of builds against his opponents. This is all moot now as he even forfeited his spot in WCS.

He is another lucky one who rode on his fame from broodwar (as the only B team foreigner with a progaming license in Korea) and success in early days SC2. That two combined gave him a contract from EG which is worth a lot more than his skill value.

At the same time Idra has his foot in this pit far deeper than many others: he was there in Korea for a while. I question whether or not he retained enough knowledge from high school to be accepted into post secondary study. I suppose he can try to get a connection to be the apprentice of a decent chef or a degree in media.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

What do they even program? They are suppose to be professional Starcraft players.

They mean Pro-Gamer

Not Programmer

I know, it caught me confused for a bit too.

At the same time Idra has his foot in this pit far deeper than many others: he was there in Korea for a while. I question whether or not he retained enough knowledge from high school to be accepted into post secondary study. I suppose he can try to get a connection to be the apprentice of a decent chef or a degree in media.

He decided to do Pro-SC instead of theoretical physics @ RIT with a full ride. In theory, he can still make it back by going to college....