Gundam Seed Destiny

[winter45]

Only a handfull. Mind you were i was stationed there must of been over 10 000 troops easily and only about 60 to 70 who were watching but 20 to 30 who kept on coming back for more.

So there were only a very small percantage.

Ok better get back to work or else my Sergeant is gonna kick my a$$

@kiramuro
Well im into the sci-fi as well, but doesnt help that we are soldiers related to war and ruled by politics. So it woulds seem natural if we tend to have those two aspects influence us when we watch shows that have those elements.

[Sir Dearka]

20-30 still seem to be a lot to me, considering that they are soldiers Oh, and I think you mentioned that among Asians there are Vietnamese fellas. Well, I am one and I noticed that in VN society anime is still generally perceived as stuff for kids. They'd die of laughter whilst watching Destiny, just like your soldiers did.

I gotta sleep sometime. This was a helluva discussion

Cheers

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

For shame! I'll have you know that realism in Gundam is no joke - it's just as realistic as Star Wars, and I dare you to call that unrealistic.

By the way, as wingdarkness alludes, this doesn't apply to Seed and Destiny. They are only as realistic as The Empire Strikes Back

You fail at comedy but I can see the sarcasm...Maybe an emoticon could have helped here?

I've already kinda given up on trying to make you understand anything Gundam since you simply don't and will never concede any point because you're always right [<---see emoticon] ...I'm just suprised you didn't use your normal tactic of just answering a question with another question (Then Rinse, repeat until the argument gets tired)...

Originally Posted by bbduece

we probably need a thread with a poll asking how many people think GUNDAM is realistic.......anyways its moot to argue with you any further wingdarkness on this subject of realism in gundam

we clearly have different views, i'm pretty sure they have military advisors working for bandai but having a super pilot saving the world destroys the fabric of that reality.....they use real elements to creat an unrealistic world....having these machine that defy logic is already undermining that realism

there are too many fantasy elements for me to be on a consensus that gundam oozes realism

I can't tell you how trite and off the mark this is...As if I'm just arguing a Gundam is real and nothing else...It's more nuance than that, yet not at all...Anyways as not to veer another thread off-course I'll end it here...



------------------------------
Sorry but had to add your edited material....

Real Robot genre was created to give the viewers the illusion that they are watching something hyper realistic so that the show can connect to the veiwer on a personal level

So people don't connect personally with Voltron, GaoGaiGar, Getter Robo, Big-O, Gigantor, so on and so forth?? It's not about that...Real Robot genre (inwhich Gundam started) was created to take the emphasis off the robot's personality and put it on the humans'...To end the context that Robots were SOOPA-Heroes instead of simple military machines used for the purposes of idealistic humans...

[kiramuro]

Originally Posted by winter45

Turn A gundam, MS08th team, and war in your pocket where the main 3 enjoyable ones.

Turn A for character develpment and story. (Mind you there isnt a battle every episode) , MS8th team for team work and some sense of battlefield realism, War in the pocket coz it had a powerfull anti-war theme. In fact 2 of the guys started crying when barnie died

So i hope this clears that we are westerners and only watch politcs and war.... I Feel so sorry to that poster but you are SO WRONG!!!!!!!

I am glad you guys enjoyed those three as they are among my favorites as well.

I like seed/destiny for the premise itself i.e. a world with the prevalence of advanced human genetic manipulation. It's a popular topic in science fiction works. While neither C.E. show was an in-depth exploration about the ethics and consequence of genetic engineering/cloning however I believe both series presented enough ideas or at least paid enough lip service to them to have kept me interested. Of course as Sir Dearka mentioned below the soap opera elements were what glued everything together and put them into a presentable saga like format. You can almost say that Seed/Seed Destiny is like a really puerile version of Babylon 5.

[bbduece]

For shame! I'll have you know that realism in Gundam is no joke - it's just as realistic as Star Wars, and I dare you to call that unrealistic.

By the way, as wingdarkness alludes, this doesn't apply to Seed and Destiny. They are only as realistic as The Empire Strikes Back

i should have done this earlier LOL

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

You fail at comedy but I can see the sarcasm...Maybe an emoticon could have helped here?

I've already kinda given up on trying to make you understand anything Gundam since you simply don't and will never concede any point because you're always right [<---see emoticon] ...I'm just suprised you didn't use your normal tactic of just answering a question with another question (Then Rinse, repeat until the argument gets tired)...



I can't tell you how trite and off the mark this is...As if I'm just arguing a Gundam is real and nothing else...It's more nuance than that, yet not at all...Anyways as not to veer another thread off-course I'll end it here...



------------------------------
Sorry but had to add your edited material....


So people don't connect personally with Voltron, GaoGaiGar, Getter Robo, Big-O, Gigantor, so on and so forth?? It's not about that...Real Robot genre (inwhich Gundam started) was created to take the emphasis off the robot's personality and put it on the humans'...To end the context that Robots were SOOPA-Heroes instead of simple military machines used for the purposes of idealistic humans...

man do you know how to read.....by labeling it real robot genre people can connect with it by assuming it is closer to reality, it has nothing to do with the other genres of mechas, those still connect with the veiwers...omg my post never said anything remotely what your thinking..... READ THE POST CLEARLY AND UNDERSTAND IT BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY DELUSIONAL RANTING.....please do not add your delusions to explain my post, it is really annoying.........and yes they are all fake, it is not real; i am sorry but those 1/144 scales you have are models they do not come to life.......if your read my post clearly: i never said anything about the other mechas not connecting with the viewer......yes read it carefully and you will see the truth......

when i said 'connect the veiwer on a personal level' i never said the other mechas dont connect with the veiwers...i think you created that in your mind...it is very un-healthy for you to be doing that..........

i hope i repeated that enough for you you to understand

one final note: i believe when they created the 'real robot genre' it was to create a more personal level, i think that was thier intention...if i forgot to put the word "more" next to personal i hope you under stand that typing so much stuff i can forget a word or two..my apologies if that infuriated you

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by bbduece

man do you know how to read.....by labeling it real robot genre people can connect with it by assuming it is closer to reality, it has nothing to do with the other genres of mechas, those still connect with the veiwers...omg my post never said anything remotely what your thinking..... READ THE POST CLEARLY AND UNDERSTAND IT BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY DELUSIONAL RANTING.....please do not add your delusions to explain my post, it is really annoying.........and yes they are all fake, it is not real i am sorry but those 1/144 scales you have are models they dont come to life.......if your read my post clearly: i never said anything about the other mechas not connecting with the viewer......yes read it carefully and you will see the truth......

when i said 'connect the veiwer on a personal level' i never said the other mechas dont connect with the veiwers...i think you created that in your mind...it is very un-healthy that you are doing that..........

i hope i repeated that enough for you you to understand

one final note i believe when they created the 'real robot genre' it was to create a more personal level, i think that was thier intention...if i forgot to put the word "more" next to personal i hope you under stand that typing so much stuff i can forget a word or two..my apologies if that infuriated you

Sorry dude, but unlike me, you don't really explain yourself that well....

How the hell could have I gotten all you just said from?:

Real Robot genre was created to give the viewers the illusion that they are watching something hyper realistic so that the show can connect to the veiwer on a personal level

I took that comment at face value and responded...Additionally I think your explanation for why it was labeled "Real Robot" genre leaves alot to be desired (You think it's as simple as tricking people with the word "Real"? --My point about realistic context has nothing to do with that)...The reason your post isn't clear is because it doesn't go into any depth once you make your conclusion (i.e. Reasonings)...So yea forgetting words and not being completely clear will tend to agitate me into my "delusional rantings" which some people seem to enjoy from me...But one man's $hit is another man's shoe-polish so I'll let my delusions stand...Clearly we are on different wavelengths and that's fine, but as I stated with your first post on GSD, you should explain yourself better if possible...

[bbduece]

sorry i dont add ideas onto to other peoples comments and posts - and then start attacking that fabricated idea as if the original poster created it....btw some of the statements you made i didnt really understand but that is fine cuz that happens in the forum world, i just respond to what i can make out....i'm not in a business creating arguable subjects and attach it to other people's reasoning....... dealing with you was fun.......

and clearly i explained myself sufficiently for you to respond throughout this thread......keep up with the forum attacks cuz lots of people out there like to defend, i know i do....

anyways good luck with real robot genre and your ideals of gundam realism LOL

those are both great ideas that i will be enjoying with a different mind set.....

laters and PEACE OUT

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by winter45

Turn A gundam, MS08th team, and war in your pocket where the main 3 enjoyable ones.

Hmm... It might have been better if you had clarified that to begin with. While 08th MS Team and 0080 are UC works, they are quite different in tone and style from the UC TV shows. It's easy to see how they can be popular with the military crowd, where it'd be more puzzling if they liked ZZ and Victory.

Originally Posted by bbduece

real robot genre? what is that, is it a genre pertaining to the real robots thats fighting wars in real life?....just because the word 'real' is attach to a label doesnt make it real, it is in every sense a fanstasy robot show under the genre 'real robot genre'

To be honest, there isn't all that much difference between "Super Robots" and "Real Robots". It's pretty clear that for both sub-genres, "awesome" always trumps "realistic".

Originally Posted by kiramuro

I like seed/destiny for the premise itself i.e. a world with the prevalence of advanced human genetic manipulation. It's a popular topic in science fiction works. While neither C.E. show was an in-depth exploration about the ethics and consequence of genetic engineering/cloning however I believe both series presented enough ideas or at least paid enough lip service to them to have kept me interested.

The Cosmic Era is a rich enough universe that it's a shame that so many of its more interesting ideas are left as little more than background material. On the other hand, this is mitigated by the fact that the overall Gundam TV structure isn't very well suited for exploring many of the ideas the way that we might like, so I'm willing to take what I can get. I still maintain that Destiny, in particular, would have fared better if it weren't constrained by being a Gundam show.

[Dan the Man]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

You fail at comedy but I can see the sarcasm...Maybe an emoticon could have helped here?

I've already kinda given up on trying to make you understand anything Gundam since you simply don't and will never concede any point because you're always right [<---see emoticon] ...I'm just suprised you didn't use your normal tactic of just answering a question with another question (Then Rinse, repeat until the argument gets tired)...

Do you have to be so damn condescending? On every one of your posts that I read, you blantantly talk down to and insult the people you're quoting or talking to. People will respond to your posts better if you're not talking down to them and treating them like idiots, you know.

Originally Posted by bbduece

one final note: i believe when they created the 'real robot genre' it was to create a more personal level, i think that was thier intention...if i forgot to put the word "more" next to personal i hope you under stand that typing so much stuff i can forget a word or two..my apologies if that infuriated you

The differences between real and super robot genres isn't about connection with the viewer or character interaction, it's about the mechs themselves and how they're used.

A super robot show usually includes gigantic robots who are virtually indestructible. They can form from a team of smaller robots, have ultimate super moves (which often have the attack name on the bottom of the screen) and typically fight a "monster of the week". Voltron, Big O, any Megazord, and Mazinger Z are good examples of super robots.

The real robot genre, which Gundam brought into popularity, makes the titular mechs insignificant in the big picture of the story. The mech is just a tool in the system, and can easily be destroyed or disposed of by a skilled enemy. The mechs are often used in construction and law enforcement, as well as serving a military purpose. Patlabor, The 08th MS Team, and 0080 are very realistic robot shows, along with most other Gundam series and Macross being other good examples.

Of course I've noticed that the genres often mix. G Gundam has loads of military mobile suits, but they're clearly not match against a superpowered Mobile Fighter, even with a skilled pilot. Evangelion also has bits of both genres, with there being just a handful of powerful Eva's against a series of monsters.

Either way, it's not about characters and viewer interaction, it's just about how the mechs are used in the grand scheme of the show.

[Cherudim Arche]

I thought megazords aren't consider super or real because of the live action.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Dan the Man

Do you have to be so damn condescending? On every one of your posts that I read, you blantantly talk down to and insult the people you're quoting or talking to. People will respond to your posts better if you're not talking down to them and treating them like idiots, you know.

Sorry, me and that guy have history...

Oh, and you're only an idiot if you believe I made you one...I'll continue to be who I am as that has been very successful for me, and I hope there's someone out there who can give me the verbal sparring that'll shut me up...That's my dream actually...

As for the rest I think you actually understand the point I was making to some extent with you're own conclusions on the "Real Robot Genre"...

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by Dan the Man

Do you have to be so damn condescending? On every one of your posts that I read, you blantantly talk down to and insult the people you're quoting or talking to. People will respond to your posts better if you're not talking down to them and treating them like idiots, you know.



The differences between real and super robot genres isn't about connection with the viewer or character interaction, it's about the mechs themselves and how they're used.

A super robot show usually includes gigantic robots who are virtually indestructible. They can form from a team of smaller robots, have ultimate super moves (which often have the attack name on the bottom of the screen) and typically fight a "monster of the week". Voltron, Big O, any Megazord, and Mazinger Z are good examples of super robots.

The real robot genre, which Gundam brought into popularity, makes the titular mechs insignificant in the big picture of the story. The mech is just a tool in the system, and can easily be destroyed or disposed of by a skilled enemy. The mechs are often used in construction and law enforcement, as well as serving a military purpose. Patlabor, The 08th MS Team, and 0080 are very realistic robot shows, along with most other Gundam series and Macross being other good examples.

Of course I've noticed that the genres often mix. G Gundam has loads of military mobile suits, but they're clearly not match against a superpowered Mobile Fighter, even with a skilled pilot. Evangelion also has bits of both genres, with there being just a handful of powerful Eva's against a series of monsters.

Either way, it's not about characters and viewer interaction, it's just about how the mechs are used in the grand scheme of the show.

thank you for clearfying that for me........... but i still think it connects with people by labeling 'real'; some veiwers that have grown out of 'super' robot will have more acceptance to this new idea of: "hmmm, real robots sound like it is for older kids i think i wont be ashame to like it" ...or some other reasons, i think it creates a certain type of mentality for some veiwers to connect with...sub-genres definitely creates some type of vibe - that is the reason why it is created

maybe my original thought of 'the creators made the genre to conect people to the show on a personal level' is wrong but it does connect and for some on a personal level

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by bbduece

tmaybe my original thought of 'the creators made the genre to conect people to the show on a personal level' is wrong but it does connect and for some on a personal level

Well, it'll always be a matter of personal taste. The problem is that GS and GSD seem to differ significantly from most Gundam series. With their initial concept of being a hyped up original MSG and MSG Z in newer form, more fitted for younger generation, there was a risk that they would not appeal to older fans, not mentioning those who are not familiar with the Japanese animation. But still, I heard that it lured many fans that were interested in anime, but not really in the whole Gundam franchise.

We are all shaped by our environment really. Or we tend to search for the environment that suits our preferences most. If one has soldier friends, his taste would be most certainly similar to theirs, unless he wants to be "original" If one is an emo kid from high school and has otaku friends, he'd most probably love the CE universe.

[kiramuro]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I hardly think they are too "good natured" as you say. A large number of seed fans I come across are unwilling to acknowledge other Gundam series as being good, or, heaven forbid, better than seed. They think other series suck simply because the animation isn't as "good" as seeds, even though seed and GSD's animation wasn't all that great anyway.

Also, it doesn't help that the majority of seed fans I've encountered have the mentality of a 10 year old. Or their just stupid.

Originally Posted by winter45

Interesting that you mentioned that Spitfire.

I work part time at EB games (selling video games and small amounts of animation) Its interesting that 10 to 14 year olds are the ones that normally say things like CE is da best and so forth. But when i ask them have they seen other gundam shows, I normally get replies of *NO* and *yes, but i didnt like the animation and stop watching*.... and lastly they have only seen Gwing... So makes me wonder if *most* of the CE fans have a mind of child and dont wish to explore the older series... But each to their own.....

Now proffesional soldiers who watched Gundum in general during time of war.

When I was a serviceman and shiped to war I brought alot of gundum series with me *MSG ,Z ,ZZ ,cca ,turn A, GW, 0080, f91, 0083, 8th team, gundam x, gundam seed and destiny*

Where I was located we had access to the recreational room. About 20 to 30 men from ages to 23 to 35 we sat down to watch gundam in general.. Most of these guys have never seen a gundam show ore even heard of japanese animation. Make a long story short the soldiers loved pretty much anything that was UC related and kept on coming back for more..... wing was ok coz of triez/zecks was the main attraction...

But when they watch seed, their facial expression said it all.... From what this $hiT!!!, this is crap and so forth... halfway thru the series 1/3 stopped watching and the other 1/3 had nothing to do but keep watching, while the remaining 1/3 continued to watch for the wrong reasons, hoping kira would get killed by Rau, and athrun would be lined up and shot by his father for deserting and turned traitor. Plus it didnt help the fact they made some of the military powers look and act retarded in a non beleivable manner, to make the terrorists... whoops i meant heroes look more spectacular in the light....

With Seed Destiny the guys were Wooting for shinn hoping he would smack kira around before he kills him, but the guys got robbed from their wishes...

So im not sure if age and proffesion makes difference if they enjoyed watching seed and destiny. But i definatly didnt like the CE timeline myself..

@ Spitfire From what I've seen on internet forums including this one. There are maybe a handful of rabid CE fans who have also watched UC. Most of them liked UC. enough so they don't mount any verbal attack against it. However in the opposite case I've seen so many jabs at CE from UC fans and they almost always used the same old trite arguments. The mod might as well make a list and put it as a sticky.


@winter45

As for the age issue I think that is to be expected since CE is a more recent universe in the Gundam franchise. In the 80s most of the UC fans were also teens. I think the only key difference in terms of gender/age demographic is that CE has more women fans. I am 23 my self and a grad student in aerospace engineering so that pretty much runs counter to what you expect to be a passionate CE fan although I like UC as well.

I do found it disturbing however that you got people in your platoon that cheered for Rau and Patrice. The question is would they actually cheer for those two archetypal characters in real life?

[winter45]

Originally Posted by kiramuro

@ Spitfire From what I've seen on internet forums including this one. There are maybe a handful of rabid CE fans who have also watched UC. Most of them liked UC. enough so they don't mount any verbal attack against it. However in the opposite case I've seen so many jabs at CE from UC fans and they almost always used the same old trite arguments. The mod might as well make a list and put it as a sticky.


@winter45

As for the age issue I think that is to be expected since CE is a more recent universe in the Gundam franchise. In the 80s most of the UC fans were also teens. I think the only key difference in terms of gender/age demographic is that CE has more women fans. I am 23 my self and a grad student in aerospace engineering so that pretty much runs counter to what you expect to be a passionate CE fan although I like UC as well.

I do found it disturbing however that you got people in your platoon that cheered for Rau and Patrice. The question is would they actually cheer for those two archetypal characters in real life?

Using my case where i work for EB games the CE Fans have a nickname for me *UC TRASH* Mind you they make it clear and all and *MOST* times in a none offensive manner. Im 25years old myself so i dont really get offended and just smile. But it doesnt help when CE fans openly resort to that level of method against UC Customers who happen to pick just say MSG as an example over the counter and give their comments out loud. Usually the mid teenagers are the worst but occasionalyy you get young adults also participating in this form of behaviour. They know who i am and have no probs saying it to me when they come into the store.

Even tho they are not always saying in a offending manner but it doesnt help the UC customers have to hear bunch of kids ganging up against me in small little debates saying UC is crap without really giving a decent reason. Im not saying all CE fans behave in this manner, but considering i have to deal with selling anime I found its CE fans that are making the drama over the UC fans. And yes there has been UC bashing CE at my store but its doesnt happen as frequent as CE bashing UC. Mind you tho it doesnt bother me too much that this attitude does happen, but i wish more CE fans could take a more mature approach to their reasons when these debates happen.

(Please take note that i have no intention as to produce this as flaming material but an insight of personal experiance of what happens at my store.)

the second part.....

Yes Rau did kinda went whacko at the end, and the guys didnt like that, but decided to look at his good sides as a militant. He obey his orders, he thinks and takes the best course of action and produces confidence amongst his men as a officer should (Not all officers have this ability), and of course since my fellow troopers had a biased view towards kira, they just wanted him to kick his ass. But i honestly think they saw him close as a supposed char clone. (the guys loved char)

Patrick... i dont think i mentioned him as a popular character but the guys liked him as a militant. He did what he believed was in the best interest of his nation like any good General would do. He wanted to prevent other forces from hurting his own nation and to me that sounds sane. Ultimatley RL Generals will lie to the government to get things done via politcal pressure or blackmail or any other means necessary to win a war. To me its normal for most of his actions, but typically they went over the top when they portrayed him as a genocidal maniac that made him into another joke by producing him as a whacko. To the guys it didnt feel natural of his sudden character change. But its anime these things happen. (The guys also felt that they gave Gilbert Durandal the same whacky treatment that just seemed out of character)

(I realise there are lots of grey factors when High ranking militants have control over a nation but i do not wish to debate over it)

To answer your qestion about would they follow rau and patrick, its hard to say.... its a question that guys never asked. But i could say im certain if you removed the unecessary craziness from their role as villans im sure we would be content to be lead by them. But as villans no, for very obvious reasons. But like any other human beings give a reason for people to follow you, then you can mass a loyal support for your evil intentions.

I hope this clears a few things for you.

[D-KLAC]

well GS series had really got these to show it's something

1.One striking fact of the series is that the voices of characters, both major and minor, were done by many veteran seiyu. The cast list reads like a "Who's Who" of Japanese voice actors and actresses. This is also carried over to the sequel, Gundam SEED Destiny.

2.The show has become one of the most popular of the Gundam series in Japan enjoying high television ratings and DVD sales. According to the analyst John Oppliger of AnimeNation, Gundam SEED became the first Gundam series which was widely successful not only among "Gundam fans and hardcore otaku" but also "mainstream, casual Japanese viewers". Gundam SEED is the eighth TV Feature Award winner at the Animation Kobe Awards in 2003, the third Grand Prix award winner at the Japanese Otaku Awards in 2003, the winner of the Tokyo International Anime Fair's animation of the year in 2004, Animage's 25th Anime Grand Prix award winner in 2002, and topped the charts in Newtype magazine reader poll.However, the show was not well received by older Japanese fans. Sunrise's president, Takayuki Yoshii, believes it was because Gundam SEED incorporated elements from popular live-action television dramas. Instead of focusing on the robot action, the show focused more on the characters.

3.Controversy
In episode sixteen, the main protagonist, sixteen-year-old Kira Yamato, is seen putting on pants after getting out of a bed, where fifteen-year-old Flay Allster lies sleeping suggesting a sexual relationship. The Japanese Commission for better broadcasting reported that viewers filed complaints regarding the scene because the show was aired at 6 pm when children would be watching. Some called the scene daring and creative because it marks the first time a "Gundam hero" having sex during the course of the series. The scene was considered relevant to the plot and extended in the special edition.

besides GS series has anime in a new level.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by winter45

Using my case where i work for EB games the CE Fans have a nickname for me *UC TRASH* Mind you they make it clear and all and *MOST* times in a none offensive manner. Im 25years old myself so i dont really get offended and just smile. But it doesnt help when CE fans openly resort to that level of method against UC Customers who happen to pick just say MSG as an example over the counter and give their comments out loud. Usually the mid teenagers are the worst but occasionalyy you get young adults also participating in this form of behaviour. They know who i am and have no probs saying it to me when they come into the store.

Even tho they are not always saying in a offending manner but it doesnt help the UC customers have to hear bunch of kids ganging up against me in small little debates saying UC is crap without really giving a decent reason. Im not saying all CE fans behave in this manner, but considering i have to deal with selling anime I found its CE fans that are making the drama over the UC fans. And yes there has been UC bashing CE at my store but its doesnt happen as frequent as CE bashing UC. Mind you tho it doesnt bother me too much that this attitude does happen, but i wish more CE fans could take a more mature approach to their reasons when these debates happen.

(Please take note that i have no intention as to produce this as flaming material but an insight of personal experiance of what happens at my store.)

Maybe your store is just more frequently visited by CE fans rather than UC. It may partially be the result of Gundam SEED and Destiny being one of the newer series. And it happens that young people - who have more time to visit such stores are probably mostly into SEED. On such forums as this one, for instance, I noticed that situation is just total opposite, as depicted by kiramuro. I never bashed ANY of the Gundam series, avoiding using stronger words in justifying my lack of interest in one or other series. But still, there are users who just seemed to enjoy spitting on my favorite show and then are the very first to insult other users, and they happen to be UC fans. My theory is that these people have a strange superiority complex against CE fans, treating the enthusiasts of SEED as kind of inferior both in terms of taste and intellect. The line between expressing one's opinion and bashing/insulting is thin at times, but I think every well-behaved person knows the difference.

AS for the second part of your post, it indeed is not surprising that military officers tend to be popular among the soldiers as there is this level of personal connection to the characters bbduece mentioned before. The soldiers might have found a part of themselves in Rau Le Creuset and Patrick Zala (not necessarily the villanous part) much like I found a huge part of myself in Dearka, or Shinn, or Kira.

[Spitfire]

I'm going to deviate from the current discussion for a moment, to talk about something that is, in my mind, one of the main reasons I hate GSD.

I could never understand the extreme lengths they went to show just how evil and corrupted the Earth Alliance, and by proxy, naturals in general were. It always bothered me how the show became so one-sided; coordinators are the only good people in the universe, and only they can save us from ourselves.

This is one reason why I will always prefer the Astray side stories over the main plot line. It showed that both Naturals and Coordinators can be decent people; not as one-sided as the main story. Also, having almost the ENTIRE main cast as coordinators makes it very hard for me to relate to and sympathize with any of them.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I'm going to deviate from the current discussion for a moment, to talk about something that is, in my mind, one of the main reasons I hate GSD.

I could never understand the extreme lengths they went to show just how evil and corrupted the Earth Alliance, and by proxy, naturals in general were. It always bothered me how the show became so one-sided; coordinators are the only good people in the universe, and only they can save us from ourselves.

This is one reason why I will always prefer the Astray side stories over the main plot line. It showed that both Naturals and Coordinators can be decent people; not as one-sided as the main story. Also, having almost the ENTIRE main cast as coordinators makes it very hard for me to relate to and sympathize with any of them.

This I also found quite annoying in the series. It might seem that all the Earth nations except Orb are just bunch of racist nazis. Much like you liked Astrays, I liked Stargazer. This series, though a short one, just showed potential not only in terms of form (the battle between a tank and Ginn was just more realistic than any fight in the whole CE universe) but also in presentation of EA pilots. That they actually could be cool and interesting.