AnimeSuki Forums

cheenk · 2006-08-25, 11:25

i thought hien was the one trying to stop kuuya from attacking other countries

Sinestra · 2006-08-25, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinova

Do keep in mind though that some manipulators are just that good, so it's not entirely true to place all blame on Kuuya.

It's almost like blaming the rape victim for being lured into it in the first place (extreme example, I know).

I hear what your saying and maybe placing al the balme on her is not fair. But a large share of it is her fault. She needs to have the strength to make up her own mind. She is leader of the country if she tells her people NO!!!!!!!!!! we are going to focus on stablizing the country first and i dont want to hear anything else about it its their duty to obey. She's just very weak minded and i think it eaiser for her to let someone else solve the problem then tell her what to do then she makes it a command. Hakuoro told her that she had people she could turn 2

Newprimus · 2006-08-25, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I hear what your saying and maybe placing al the balme on her is not fair. But a large share of it is her fault. She needs to have the strength to make up her own mind. She is leader of the country if she tells her people NO!!!!!!!!!! we are going to focus on stablizing the country first and i dont want to hear anything else about it its their duty to obey. She's just very weak minded and i think it eaiser for her to let someone else solve the problem then tell her what to do then she makes it a command. Hakuoro told her that she had people she could turn 2

In her mind though, stabilizing and protecting her country IS taking out all the other ones so that they can't attack her people again. And they DID attack her people after all. Add a few convincing words here and there, exploit her naivette, and you have what we have.

Quote:

I know what Dii is (and by extension, what Hakuoro is) but in my analysis (including the edit on post #55) whatever it is Dii is scheming is of no object. The fact that Dii is manipulating every mass murderer in existence does not exonerate the mass murderers.

Cause and effect. Kuuya and her bunch would not have had the distinction of being called mass murderers if it weren't for Dii's scheming.

Renegade334 · 2006-08-25, 13:41

Dii manipulates anyone that has power or happens to rule a country for the sake of raising conflicts as much as possible for his own plans. Whether you are of noble mind and pure intentions or not, is a mere afterthought to him. You're just a pawn. Whether you are painted white or black or on either side of the chess board doesn't matter - you're a small cog in the engine of war. And he is the one making you move the gears of destiny.

If you take for example Orikakan, he wasn't originally a murderer or some evil lord - but through Dii's devices he was tricked (through a hypnosis/confounding spell) into thinking that Hakuoro was the one who killed his sister. As you can see, not all attackers in Utawarerumono are bloodthirsty tyrants fond of the 'divide and conquer' motto and taking baths with human blood instead of water every sunday by habit. Did he massacre people? Yes. But was he actually evil? Not necessarily - and apparently not, according to the game.

Dii just turns you into someone whose only option in a changing world is to fight, whether for territorial expansion, revenge or merely defense. As long as you fight, create chaos and eventually

Spoiler:

Dii's all the more happy.

Spoiler:

ChainLegacy · 2006-08-25, 13:50

If we don't see some Hakuoro godzilla action next week, I'll be pissed. Hoping he rips apart all of those stupid mech bunny morons for whatever they did to Arruru.

Renegade334 · 2006-08-25, 13:52

Spoiler:

Newprimus · 2006-08-25, 13:53

Could someone explain to me where these come from? (didn't quite know where to put these)

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the source. It's a funny bonus short on the DVD. It covers that one scene in the game where Hakuoro and Oboro go raid the storage room for some snacks and get ehm..... indigestion, and the whole Aruru torpedoing into Oboro's stomach thing happens.

Sinestra · 2006-08-25, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinova

In her mind though, stabilizing and protecting her country IS taking out all the other ones so that they can't attack her people again. And they DID attack her people after all. Add a few convincing words here and there, exploit her naivette, and you have what we have.

Cause and effect. Kuuya and her bunch would not have had the distinction of being called mass murderers if it weren't for Dii's scheming.

True technically we can blame all the mass murders of Dii and some of Kuuyas current state of mind. I cant bring my self to hate her since i know she is in a difficult position i think her lack of confidence in her self showes through a lot allowing Gii and the others to take advantage not to mention her naivette. Did it seem like saw more in Haruoko than just a fellow ruler or am i reading too much into it?

Renegade334 · 2006-08-25, 14:00

At first she thought he was a kanneietai, a 'devoted' one blessed by gods and put under their protection - hence why she approached him and asked if he had any skills she could possibly copy or make her own to protect her people.

Afterwards (when Hakuoro disspelled that belief) I think she just thought him to be 'an interesting/fascinating person', according to her own words, since he was quite the unorthodox, odd man out in this world. Other than that, I believe he was the only ruler she could meet without suffering the scorn a discussion with other species that would always follow such a meeting. Hakuoro is clueless, without preconceptions or prejudices, making him the easiest person to have a chat with as fellow leaders and not as enemies or persona non grata in each other's country.

Newprimus · 2006-08-25, 14:18

Re. the bonus ep:

Oh God. You guys have to see this. You HAVE to see this.

Renegade334 · 2006-08-25, 14:22

Ah, yeah, the who-goes-to-the-toilet-first scene...such a pity we'll have to wait for it to make its way around the world...*sigh*

zalas · 2006-08-25, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I hear what your saying and maybe placing al the balme on her is not fair. But a large share of it is her fault. She needs to have the strength to make up her own mind. She is leader of the country if she tells her people NO!!!!!!!!!! we are going to focus on stablizing the country first and i dont want to hear anything else about it its their duty to obey. She's just very weak minded and i think it eaiser for her to let someone else solve the problem then tell her what to do then she makes it a command. Hakuoro told her that she had people she could turn 2

Also note that she is just a *kid*. She thinks and acts in the same way a kid would, like trying to impress Hakuoro, easily swayed by emotions, etc. How many kids do you know can run a normal country, much less a country tied up in a web of conspiracy?

Sinestra · 2006-08-25, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinova

Re. the bonus ep:

Oh God. You guys have to see this. You HAVE to see this.

Hey Shinova bonus Ep what is this blessing you speak off?

Toonleap · 2006-08-25, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Hey Shinova bonus Ep what is this blessing you speak off?

Spoiler for DVD Extras:

Hope this comes on the U.S version of the Licensed DVDS...

Newprimus · 2006-08-25, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonleap

Spoiler for DVD Extras:

Spoiler:

Toonleap · 2006-08-25, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinova

Spoiler:

Special is about 15 minutes...wow, half an episode...

Spoiler:

Hope this answer your question. If someone else watched this and I made a mistake, feel free to post....I know japanese, but need to practice a little bit more...

Cardiac Glycoside · 2006-08-26, 02:05

I was wondering--weren't some of the people subjugated by Kunnekamun also bunny people? (I am talking about the grieveing man who refused to bow to Kuuya).

Kyero Fox · 2006-08-26, 03:59

with out those .. Mechs w.e they be Helpless and stand no chance . I hate it when someone hides behind Armor.

kauldron26 · 2006-08-26, 11:05

holy shit... that insane rabbit guy, is like Dilandau (from escaflowne) long lost cousin. Im pretty certain dilandau would rip him to pieces tho. If i new the preview would make me go insane for the next episode, i would have just stopped it.

give me episode 22 nooooow.

anyone else agree this and honey/clover II are the best show of the summer?? (unlike the ridiculously overrated haruhi suzumiya)

the question is, can utawarerumono posibbly top the greatness of ESCAFLOWNE??

Xellos-_^ · 2006-08-26, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by kauldron26

.

anyone else agree this and honey/clover II are the best show of the summer?? (unlike the ridiculously overrated haruhi suzumiya)

No

*starts piling wood to burn the heratic of Haruhism.

View Poll Results: Utawarerumono Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10	16	31.37%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	22	43.14%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	8	15.69%
7 out of 10 : Good	4	7.84%
6 out of 10 : Average	1	1.96%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

2006-08-25, 13:41	Link #64
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	Dii manipulates anyone that has power or happens to rule a country for the sake of raising conflicts as much as possible for his own plans. Whether you are of noble mind and pure intentions or not, is a mere afterthought to him. You're just a pawn. Whether you are painted white or black or on either side of the chess board doesn't matter - you're a small cog in the engine of war. And he is the one making you move the gears of destiny. If you take for example Orikakan, he wasn't originally a murderer or some evil lord - but through Dii's devices he was tricked (through a hypnosis/confounding spell) into thinking that Hakuoro was the one who killed his sister. As you can see, not all attackers in Utawarerumono are bloodthirsty tyrants fond of the 'divide and conquer' motto and taking baths with human blood instead of water every sunday by habit. Did he massacre people? Yes. But was he actually evil? Not necessarily - and apparently not, according to the game. Dii just turns you into someone whose only option in a changing world is to fight, whether for territorial expansion, revenge or merely defense. As long as you fight, create chaos and eventually Spoiler: climb up a notch in the hierarchy/ladder of valor and whatnot, Dii's all the more happy. Spoiler: As I said earlier on, Dii believes that evolution and betterment can only be achieved through war, where one's body and mind become one and people are thus able to attain greater heights. Hakuoro, due to his nature and his unrevealed relation to Dii, naturally thinks the opposite and tries a more peaceful, placating or diplomatic approach. It still remains that despite his unwillingness to partake in any form of battle, he is still another factor for Dii to use in his great scheme(s). __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread.

2006-08-25, 13:52	Link #66
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	Spoiler: You actually might get your much-desired treat seeing what actually happened in the game. Wonder how they'll animate it and how much we'll see, though. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread.

2006-08-25, 13:53	Link #67
Newprimus NO ESCAPE FROM NYAAA Artist Join Date: Jan 2004	Could someone explain to me where these come from? (didn't quite know where to put these) EDIT: Nevermind, I found the source. It's a funny bonus short on the DVD. It covers that one scene in the game where Hakuoro and Oboro go raid the storage room for some snacks and get ehm..... indigestion, and the whole Aruru torpedoing into Oboro's stomach thing happens. __________________ NYAA-CEPTION Last edited by Newprimus; 2006-08-25 at 14:15.

2006-08-25, 14:00	Link #69
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	At first she thought he was a kanneietai, a 'devoted' one blessed by gods and put under their protection - hence why she approached him and asked if he had any skills she could possibly copy or make her own to protect her people. Afterwards (when Hakuoro disspelled that belief) I think she just thought him to be 'an interesting/fascinating person', according to her own words, since he was quite the unorthodox, odd man out in this world. Other than that, I believe he was the only ruler she could meet without suffering the scorn a discussion with other species that would always follow such a meeting. Hakuoro is clueless, without preconceptions or prejudices, making him the easiest person to have a chat with as fellow leaders and not as enemies or persona non grata in each other's country. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread. Last edited by Renegade334; 2006-08-25 at 14:20.

2006-08-25, 11:25	Link #61
cheenk Member Join Date: Mar 2006	i thought hien was the one trying to stop kuuya from attacking other countries

2006-08-25, 13:50	Link #65
ChainLegacy 廉頗 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Massachusetts Age: 34	If we don't see some Hakuoro godzilla action next week, I'll be pissed. Hoping he rips apart all of those stupid mech bunny morons for whatever they did to Arruru.

2006-08-25, 14:18	Link #70
Newprimus NO ESCAPE FROM NYAAA Artist Join Date: Jan 2004	Re. the bonus ep: Oh God. You guys have to see this. You HAVE to see this. __________________ NYAA-CEPTION

2006-08-25, 14:22	Link #71
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	Ah, yeah, the who-goes-to-the-toilet-first scene...such a pity we'll have to wait for it to make its way around the world...sigh __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread.

2006-08-26, 02:05	Link #77
Cardiac Glycoside Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	I was wondering--weren't some of the people subjugated by Kunnekamun also bunny people? (I am talking about the grieveing man who refused to bow to Kuuya). __________________

2006-08-26, 03:59	Link #78
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	with out those .. Mechs w.e they be Helpless and stand no chance . I hate it when someone hides behind Armor. __________________

2006-08-26, 11:05	Link #79
kauldron26 Med Student Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 40	holy shit... that insane rabbit guy, is like Dilandau (from escaflowne) long lost cousin. Im pretty certain dilandau would rip him to pieces tho. If i new the preview would make me go insane for the next episode, i would have just stopped it. give me episode 22 nooooow. anyone else agree this and honey/clover II are the best show of the summer?? (unlike the ridiculously overrated haruhi suzumiya) the question is, can utawarerumono posibbly top the greatness of ESCAFLOWNE??