Macross Delta - Episode 26 [END] Discussion / Poll

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by Tak

I... I think I am the only one to notice that Chuck's sister survived...

I feel sad...

- Tak

Boobies don't die. See Makimaki.

[FlamingMangos]

Holy shit. The Walkure cover of DYRL is so damn great.

[Edna37]

[QUOTE=Thess;5952231]It was a triangle. Just largely one-sided like Frontier (minus competitive heroines).

In the novelization, Hayate has been obviously (and obliviously) in love with Freyja since they met as much as it pains me to admit it.

Excuse me, where did you read the novel? I haven't been able to find it

[Kokojin]

As other mecha franchises get better, more mature and consistent , Macross on the other hand just devolves more and more with each franchise, being a macross fan since the age of 9 and having watched or read every single macross related product released I begin to realize that the show (especially the TV series) are becoming no more than an commercial for the new "shiny VF" toys and merchandise being produced, and that the cycle repeats repeats every 4 or 5 years (this is very evident after Macross Zero which is by the far the best of the franchise in recent years).

If Kawamori-san is unable to write a coherent story he should have delegated the job to someone that could, he is a brilliant mecha designer but not so much a writer / script, please bring back Ohnogi-san for the script .

I stuck with the show because of my loyalty and love of the franchise, but while watching Macross Delta i couldn't help but repeat in my mind "What are you guys DOING to Macross!!!"

the entire season had 3 good episodes and 1 "acceptable"

Good episodes:

Episode 1 : the introduction of the characters, the big reveal that the Protoculture seeded many races in the galaxy and that Humanity is not unique as "the children of the protoculture" (although a similar idea was introduced in an OVA for Macross 7 but not to this degree.

Episode 10: Messers death

Episode 19: The big reveal , the "lore" of the macross universe advanced by 0.000001% that day.

The "acceptable" Episodes

Episode 25: the penultimate episode , Mikumo reveal , music is a weapon etc etc

the rest of the season had so many holes in it would make cheese feel ashamed.

forgettable "entry" into the franchise at best.



Quick Edit: if there is another 26 episodes (season 2?) then this entry is still salvageable , otherwise the above holds.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Edna37

Excuse me, where did you read the novel? I haven't been able to find it

I bought it with Macross 30 novelization (it was long overdue), but I think someone translated the first chapter. I don't have the link with me.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

Boobies don't die. See Makimaki.

Maki Maki?



- Tak

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

There were a number of things I wanted to write about this episode, but then I just lost the will since this series have been too 'meh' for me . So I guess my sentiment about this last episode boils down to this:

Is it a good episode on its own?: Yeah......you can say so.
Is it a good ending for the series?: No way. Absolutely not.

Originally Posted by Tak

I have to admit, I got lost in about episode 15 or so and subsequently lost interest.

- Tak

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

As someone who ended up posting less and less due to how cranky people were getting around here, ...

Originally Posted by Tak

Hah, you too?

- Tak

Originally Posted by dmaxzero

I left these forums around episode 20 I think. Something about philosophy set me off.

The comments above are pretty much what I felt when it comes to Macross Delta threads in general. Most often than not, the atmosphere is rather “too hot” for me to have fun discussing things. I guess this has been a trend since Frontier or so, and I expect future Macross projects will also “suffer the same fate” in Asuki. That’s why I’ve never been a regular when it comes to Macross threads here. I have a blast reading some of it though .

[Maverick05]

Just after episode 12, I was really excited to drop $300 for the DX Chogokin VF-31 without a second thought.

Now....I think Macross Delta is somewhere barely above Macross 7. Macross Zero, SDF Macross and Macross Plus are still the best in that order.

I agree that the Mecha design, music, and overall world building was great; but the triangle and the ending were just awful.

[Triple_R]

Why couldn't they have kissed? Why couldn't Macross Delta have just given us a kiss? Is that really too much to ask? It shouldn't be, as Frontier had at least one kiss!

Man, why is anime so freaking gutless in recent years? Sigh...

And why did we need 5-to-10 minutes of Roid's bizarre universe-brain of Ange Vierge-level nudity? Good grief...


What a gutless gutless ending in just about every way. Romantically and war narrative-wise since apparently Heinz is completely forgiven for everything...

I might feel better after I watch this episode with subs, but right now, I feel so letdown.

Delta could have had the super-duper romantically satisfying ending and/or it could have had a Windermere rightly gets BTFO'ed ending. Or it could have had "Freyja ultimate hero who gives her life to save the universe from Roid's madness" ending. Either of these, or any combination of them, could have lifted this show back up and made it something truly special again. But no, Delta picked the safest and least memorable option there is...

[Incest Emblem]

Originally Posted by Kokojin

I begin to realize that the show (especially the TV series) are becoming no more than an commercial for the new "shiny VF" toys and merchandise being produced

In Delta, the VFs spent about about 90% of the time in fighter form and most of the remaining 20% in gerwalk form. It was a very poor commercial for the models, if it was meant to be one. A commercial for the songs, perhaps, but not so much the toys.

I am much more inclined to chalk the quality of the series to poor writing than outsized pecuniary considerations.

[Thess]

Hayate confessed his love to Freyja (where all Galaxy could hear) and vowed they'll be always be together. I'm not a shipper of them, but honestly don't you think that's a step above a mere kiss? Frontier had the "You two are my wings" ending and

Spoiler for movie spoiler:

There were no kisses in the movie and Alto's confession was muted.

As for Windermere. I have not enough smug faces and "I-told-you-sos" about the outcome of this. I'm not sure why so many here just completely misunderstood Windermere as they did with the Vajra. If the focus of their pityfest was pushed through the entire show.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

Hayate confessed his love to Freyja (where all Galaxy could hear) and vowed they'll be always be together. I'm not a shipper of them, but honestly don't you think that's a step above a mere kiss?

As for Windermere. I have not enough smug faces and "I-told-you-sos" about the outcome of this. I'm not sure why so many here just completely misunderstood Windermere as they did with the Vajra. If the focus of their pityfest was pushed through the entire show.

Well, thanks for translating Hayate's reply to Freyja for me. That does help some on the romance front anyway.

As for Windermere... Heinz has the blood of thousands on his hands. He really does. He simply doesn't deserve a happy ending. Heinz's final scene in this show shouldn't be one of him looking peaceful and content, if not happy. I think that sends an absolutely terrible message. Windermere did loads of absolutely monstrous things that you and other people here kept downplaying over and over again. Don't you think they should pay some price for that? Feel and express some actual regret over the horrible things they did?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, thanks for translating Hayate's reply to Freyja for me. That does help some on the romance front anyway.

Their last scene when they fly together and Freyja looks tearing up about her hand. Hayate promises her they'll always be together. But yeah his confession earlier was heard across all galaxy, so did hers (Mirage's rejection was also Galaxy-wide). Kisses or not, they went over the top with the romance.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for Windermere... Heinz has the blood of thousands on his hands. He really does. He simply doesn't deserve a happy ending. Heinz's final scene in this show shouldn't be one of him looking peaceful and content, if not happy. I think that sends an absolutely terrible message. Windermere did loads of absolutely monstrous things that you and other people here kept downplaying over and over again. Don't you think they should pay some price for that? Feel and express some actual regret over the horrible things they did?

It was a war and turns out they are the winners. They can freely negotiate because they decide to put an end to it after realizing it doesn't satisfy them/their goals were met. It was always about them ending this conflict themselves, listening to Freyja at last which is exactly what happened. There weren't going to be punishments dished out by random background characters or the villainous faceless NUNS in the show (maybe the best you can hope so is some obscure side material mention, but not as part of the show built up), and Chaos was on disadvantage of forces and strength. Heinz didn't get a 'happy' ending. He simply lived and became wiser as a ruler who is finally following his own will. But he lost his father, his brother and the man he also looked up as a family (Roid) to a war adults forced on his shoulders. Which is more or less what I expected (because I never really expected there would be time to rework their system and it was fairly obvious Keith will take down Roid - though if he died or not was up the air).

The ending was set up in the last episodes. I'm not sure what you guys expected when the main characters, namely Chaos, only wanted Windermere to stop, not to defeat them or 'punish' them because of the guilt they felt for what happened to them. Hayate and Freyja, the protagonists, were never cruising to 'punish' Windermere. Freyja got all she wanted. This was the outcome she desired and fought for. Again you're focusing on the so-called suffering of background fodder that aren't even characters and missing the point that the female protagonist of Delta wanted this ending and fought for it. She announced it in like episode 12. Losing the sight of Freyja's goals to glorify or put as more important what the feelings of noncharacters that never did anything (supposed people of Voldor, Ragna and other planets in an exercise of false outrage and projection) was the mistake of many who expected something that wasn't going to happen. If it happened, it would mean Freyja would have failed (and Hayate too).

[Convoy]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for Windermere... Heinz has the blood of thousands on his hands. He really does. He simply doesn't deserve a happy ending. Heinz's final scene in this show shouldn't be one of him looking peaceful and content, if not happy. I think that sends an absolutely terrible message. Windermere did loads of absolutely monstrous things that you and other people here kept downplaying over and over again. Don't you think they should pay some price for that? Feel and express some actual regret over the horrible things they did?

Ugh, yeah. Now they're just going to go home and get away scot-free with all their crimes against the galaxy.

[Kokojin]

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

In Delta, the VFs spent about about 90% of the time in fighter form and most of the remaining 20% in gerwalk form. It was a very poor commercial for the models, if it was meant to be one. A commercial for the songs, perhaps, but not so much the toys.

I am much more inclined to chalk the quality of the series to poor writing than outsized pecuniary considerations.

wow i didn't know some people had a calculator in hand while watching the series, I should be more careful in the future. at least we agree on the awful writing.

ps (how does a vf stay 90% in fighter mode and 20% gerwalk? is it due to the dimensional wave effect? or some new technology?)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

Again you're focusing on the so-called suffering of background fodder that aren't even characters and missing the point that the female protagonist of Delta wanted this ending and fought for it. She announced it in like episode 12. Losing the sight of Freyja's goals to glorify or put as more important what the feelings of noncharacters that never did anything (supposed people of Voldor, Ragna and other planets in an exercise of false outrage and projection) was the mistake of many who expected something that wasn't going to happen.

Your use of "so-called" and "supposed" here is truly disgusting. It really is.

Loads of characters were clearly suffering badly from Windermere's horrible actions. The anime made this crystal clear multiple times. Nameless or not, we were shown these characters being put through a truly terrible situation by brutally villainous and warmongering Windermere. This should not be dismissed the way this finale appears to dismiss it.

As for Freyja, she wanted peace, and an end to the warfare. That is not incompatible with Windermere's leadership (including Heinz) being held accountable for their horrible misdeeds. At the absolute least, we should have been shown a deeply regretful and apologetic Heinz.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for Windermere... Heinz has the blood of thousands on his hands. He really does. He simply doesn't deserve a happy ending. Heinz's final scene in this show shouldn't be one of him looking peaceful and content, if not happy. I think that sends an absolutely terrible message.

There definitely needed to be some remorseful scenes. Heinz's thing last episode does not count.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Your use of "so-called" and "supposed" here is truly disgusting. It really is.

Loads of characters were clearly suffering badly from Windermere's horrible actions. The anime made this crystal clear multiple times. Nameless or not, we were shown these characters being put through a truly terrible situation by brutally villainous and warmongering Windermere.

Like who? Give me their names and what their actions in the show. If you don't know their names, then they aren't real characters. They are just background fodder who don't even matter in the outcome. Do you think faceless Frontier citizen who lost something to the Vajra had any say of Alto's or Ranka's or Sheryl's decision about "Vajra are our friends." Nope. Because it's a story, and they don't matter to the narrative. What matters are the actions and goals of the protagonist. You cannot simply undo their goals and how hard they worked for it because "random fodder faceless may want to punish Windermere". It's bad writing. This only could have happened if it wasn't directly against Freyja's goal, but it was.

Besides, if they did, it'll be the repeat of what drove Windermere to do this in the first place. Call me crazy but all that the last episode hinted (I mean episode 25) was to finally end the cycle of hatred. That could have only happened if Heinz took this decision. To actually expect some sort of 'punishment' as you and others wanted would destroy the message and core theme of the show. Check last episode thread, a number of us pointed it out. Beqa's posts are specially good.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for Freyja, she wanted peace, and an end to the warfare. That is not incompatible with Windermere's leadership (including Heinz) being held accountable for their horrible misdeeds. At the absolute least, we should have been shown a deeply regretful and apologetic Heinz.

Wrong. Freyja flat out stated in episode 12 that her goal was for her singing to reach the Wind Singer so he'll stop (aka Heinz) and Windermere. She always worried about her planet and people. She usually keeps it inside. She failed to reach for Heinz in episode 24, she succeeded now. This was her ultimate victory. She wanted to be the one who changed them. So sorry, random background fodder has no right to steal her thunder.

[Convoy]

Originally Posted by Thess

Like who? Give me their names and what their actions in the show. If you don't know their names, then they aren't real characters. They are just background fodder who don't even matter in the outcome. Do you think faceless Frontier citizen who lost something to the Vajra had any say of Alto's or Ranka's or Sheryl's decision about "Vajra are our friends." Nope. Because it's a story, and they don't matter to the narrative. What matters are the actions and goals of the protagonist. You cannot simply undo their goals and how hard they worked for it because "random fodder faceless may want to punish Windermere". It's bad writing. This only could have happened if it wasn't directly against Freyja's goal, but it was.

Alberto Larrazábal, the Voldorian NUN Spacy pilot who was mind-raped with Var and became unresponsive to his own children until Walküre cured him.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Convoy

Alberto Larrazábal, the Voldorian NUN Spacy pilot who was mind-raped with Var and became unresponsive to his own children until Walküre cured him.

He never spoke of revenge against Windermere or punishing their "crimes". Just of liberating his planet. Which was accomplished, right?