Haku's Potential

[Ziv]

If Zabuza died before him, Haku would've probably killed himself or would've died trying to kill Naruto and Kakashi. He was too loyal to Zabuza to do anything on his own.

[warmachine v2.0]

A tool is a tool is a tool. You said plainly that Haku's potential was stunted by the evil in Zabuza not being a mentor of proper moral conditioning and had he someone who was "right" or "righteous" whatever you want to call it, his true potential would be revealed (even though he was strides ahead of people his age and possibly even Kakashi at the time). The contradiction is still relevant because Orochimaru is as immoral as they come, though he apparently rendered the potential in Sasuke pretty well.

I suppose my point in this series is it doesn't matter who calls who their sensei and how strong they are as a result. The only certainties lay in good > evil.

No no no. Im afraid you did not understand me. It was not that he was good or evil, but his intent and how it caused him to teach. His morals is simply ONE of the things that hindered Haku's growth. Im fairly certain that Itachi could teach Sasuke some things that would greatly increase his abilities, regardless of his affiliations. Orochimaru was simply a better teacher (although it aided in his demise). Righteousness has nothing to do with teaching unless the student is opposed to it. If Sandaime Hokage attempted to teach Zabuza something, he would have blew it off because of his beliefs contradicting Sandaime's. However, if Sandaime tried to teach Kakashi something he would actually try to learn. Same as Gai and Lee, and Jiraiya and Naruto.

I think that if say, Orochimaru, found Haku, Haku would be much stronger.

[That Other Ninja]

Zabuza was a good mentor. The kid lost his clan and all those who shared his genetic ability and he was still able to be jounin level under Zabuza..

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by warmachine v2.0

If Sandaime Hokage attempted to teach Zabuza something, he would have blew it off because of his beliefs contradicting Sandaime's. However, if Sandaime tried to teach Kakashi something he would actually try to learn. Same as Gai and Lee, and Jiraiya and Naruto.

Yeah, but Sandaime taught Oro and he turned out really frickin' strong. Just as strong, if not stronger, than Jiraiya and Tsunade, whose morals were far more in sync with Sandaime's. Oro refused Sandaime's ethics, but he accepted his training.

The student's talent determines their potential far more than the teacher in the Naruto world. The morals of pupil and sensei really has little to do with it as long as the pupil accepts the sensei. Haku's dream was nothing more than to serve as a tool for Zabuza from the very moment they met. The fact that he didn't condone needless killing didn't change that or affect his training.

[Anna Valerius]

I think Haku is pretty cool,but he is used by Zabuza and I hate that. If he had his own dream and voice I think he'd be stronger. And I think if he lived longer he would be a guy like Naruto or Neji.


The Fourth Dracula's Bride

[warmachine v2.0]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

Zabuza was a good mentor. The kid lost his clan and all those who shared his genetic ability and he was still able to be jounin level under Zabuza..

And Im just stating that he could have been better. Emotionally maybe not, but better in terms of ability.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

He'd be just like Neji, doesn't do anything to the plot and wasted.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

He'd be just like Neji, doesn't do anything to the plot and wasted.

Your posts are a waste of our time if you keep speaking as if only two characters give the plot any reason to keep our interest. Wtf is the point of a cartoon if everybody who isn't a main character "doesn't do anything to the plot" and is wasted? Yeah lets just watch an anime with only two characters in it for the entire series!

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

Your posts are a waste of our time if you keep speaking as if only two characters give the plot any reason to keep our interest. Wtf is the point of a cartoon if everybody who isn't a main character "doesn't do anything to the plot" and is wasted? Yeah lets just watch an anime with only two characters in it for the entire series!

Don't read it then. The fact is after being defeated by Naruto and the rescue Sasuke arc Neji hasn't done anything he was a truly great character now look at him, i see threads about Sasuke vs Neji, Neji isn't important enough to face Sasuke anymore. And the same would be said of Haku if he was alive.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Don't read it then. The fact is after being defeated by Naruto and the rescue Sasuke arc Neji hasn't done anything he was a truly great character now look at him, i see threads about Sasuke vs Neji, Neji isn't important enough to face Sasuke anymore. And the same would be said of Haku if he was alive.

Now look at him what? You refer to the circumstances of his passive tenure like he's a real person letting us down by not doing anything. Its a damn fictional story in the hands of an author. Merely because he isn't actively taking part in any event at the moment doesn't mean he's wasted on us. Just on you and your strange point of view.

[warmachine v2.0]

Don't read it then. The fact is after being defeated by Naruto and the rescue Sasuke arc Neji hasn't done anything he was a truly great character now look at him, i see threads about Sasuke vs Neji, Neji isn't important enough to face Sasuke anymore. And the same would be said of Haku if he was alive.

Since this is a forum your allowed to state your opinion, but, Neji is still a great character, and i would definitley say he is worthy enough to fight Sasuke in my opinion. Haku, sadly is not alive, so no one knows what role he would play. This may not have been your intention, but please try not to provoke people, I appreciate discussions more than arguments.

Yeah, but Sandaime taught Oro and he turned out really frickin' strong. Just as strong, if not stronger, than Jiraiya and Tsunade, whose morals were far more in sync with Sandaime's. Oro refused Sandaime's ethics, but he accepted his training.

Good point, but Haku was nowhere near as evil as Orochimaru. Damn good point. Didnt think about that.

[Aquarian Archangel]

Jounin, ANBU, or exceptional medic-nin . . . take your pick.

When all is said and done, Haku was already easily at chunnin-level (in mentality, tactics, and abilities) during the Zabuza arc. Beyond this, he was trained in precisely the same manner as Zabuza, and Zabuza stated that he taught Haku all he knows.

During a time-skip, we could expect to see . . .

1. a noticeable increase in his speed (easily rivaling Lee and Neji)
2. a slight increase in his strength
3. a potentially large increase in his intelligence (particularly if he entered the medical field) and tactical ability
4. likely complete mastery of either or even both of his wind and water elemental affinities (assuming he hadn't already)
6. possible addition of a new elemental jutsu (earth possibly)
7. genjutsu and genjutsu countering techniques (Haku likes to incapacitate, not kill)
8. and of course the refinement/advancement of pre-existing Hyouton techniques and creation of new ones as well.

Having said all that, he would likely have easily progressed to jounin during the time-skip, being just as (possibly even more) powerful than Neji, Temari, and/or Kankuro.

As I mentioned already, he arguably already was an ANBU, so I could potentially go into that organization (he'd make a very interesting teammate for Sai actually).

Finally, if you consider his mentality, he'd be very well suited towards the work of medic nin, as Haku always struck me as the type that would rather save lives than take lives.

[sakun]

ahh in fact i believe it does say that haku is stronger then kakashi and yet in shippuuden both naruto and sakura combined couldnt defeat kakashi so in fact haku could still kill them and has as much potential as naruto and sasuke at the point of kakashi's strength lvl so in fact haku could have actually become the kage eventually of the mist viallage

[warmachine v2.0]

ahh in fact i believe it does say that haku is stronger then kakashi and yet in shippuuden both naruto and sakura combined couldnt defeat kakashi so in fact haku could still kill them and has as much potential as naruto and sasuke at the point of kakashi's strength lvl so in fact haku could have actually become the kage eventually of the mist viallage

Where does it say that Haku is stronger than Kakashi? No seriously was this a joke?

[sakun]

no actually it wasnt zabuza said haku was stronger then himself and zabuza is almost if not equal to kakashi if not the chidori it would have ended in a draw so if haku is better then zabuza then he can kill kakashi then. it doesnt say it directly no but it does say it

[warmachine v2.0]

no actually it wasnt zabuza said haku was stronger then himself and zabuza is almost if not equal to kakashi if not the chidori it would have ended in a draw so if haku is better then zabuza then he can kill kakashi then. it doesnt say it directly no but it does say it

I dont think Haku could beat Kakashi anymore. I mean, its Kakashi were talking about.

Spoiler for i dont know if this thread has spoiler tags or not:

He can send you to another dimension for crying out loud. And could probably predict hakus moves with his sharingan too. (not fair i know)

[sakun]

yes but remember haku new the weakness plus he doesnt have the complete sharigan ill give kakashi a benefit of the doubt

60% haku
40% kakashi

[warmachine v2.0]

yes but remember haku new the weakness plus he doesnt have the complete sharigan

His shringan is complete, he just doesnt have Uchiha blood. Remember Haku was up against a sharingan that was not comlplete. Kakashi could have broken out of the mirrors with a chidori possibly if given the time, if a Kyubi Naruto beat Haku, and Kakashi could have beat THAT kyubi Naruto IMO, he could have beaten Haku.

[Cmart]

i think that Zabuza was only his equal when he used the mist other wise Kakashi could have finished him off. I still dont think that Haku would be able to beat kakashi if he went all out but then again all the youngins are becoming more powerful than most of the people were when they were genin and chunins.

[sakun]

Originally Posted by warmachine v2.0

His shringan is complete, he just doesnt have Uchiha blood. Remember Haku was up against a sharingan that was not comlplete. Kakashi could have broken out of the mirrors with a chidori possibly if given the time, if a Kyubi Naruto beat Haku, and Kakashi could have beat THAT kyubi Naruto IMO, he could have beaten Haku.

ahh in fact kakashi's sharingan is not complete because its only in one eye same with sasuke till the fight with naruto at the lake he only had 1 dot then he gain another and at the fight at the lake he gain the 3rd dot on his sharigan singafying it is complete