2009-08-24, 12:02 | Link #141 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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But sorry, I've not come across any interview where the author spoke of his inspirations for the characters (or even the storyline).
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2009-08-26, 15:50 | Link #142 | |
an idler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Suzuka
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When the writer creates a character, he opts only for rough setting, such as Horo's "beast ear and tail", and Lawrence's "peddler." First of all, the writer appointed Lawrence as the leading role, and as a result of actually moving a character, Horo was characterized as such personality. Therefore, a clear personality is not compelled to any characters. That is, in order to emphasize Lawrence's weakness, Horo is sometimes strong, and in order to emphasize Lawrence's tenderness, Horo is sometimes lonely. About Horo's language, the writer was charmed by one scene of "SAKURAN" which took up the red-light district Yoshiwara in the Edo period, and he adopted the heroine's language. About Horo's beast ear, the writer was touched off by "The Golden Bough" written by James George Frazer, and he adopted beast ear. |
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2009-08-31, 07:33 | Link #144 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Regarding the possibility of Horo still being "untouched", I found this little comment in the vast areas of the internet:
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2009-08-31, 11:04 | Link #145 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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And also a load of bollocks I'll eviscerate each assumption it makes later when I have more time. Frankly, I view the whole "is the heroine a virgin or not" to be one of the most immature facets of otaku-dom.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-08-31 at 11:29. |
2009-08-31, 15:12 | Link #146 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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I suppose one can argue about whether she can even have children with a human. After all, Horo's seems to have been itching to figure that one out for a while, and even Lawrence seems at least curious. But again, dwelling on something that only the story can answer is at best pointless when there is so much story left to cover. |
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2009-08-31, 20:38 | Link #147 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I've been thinking:
Horo's non-sexualized nudity is a depiction of her divinity. Before Christianity took over Europe, most of the classical Cultures of Europe and the Mediterranean world depicted divine figures in the nude. Greek and Roman gods were depicted in the nude, 'divine' and 'semi-divine' humans such as 'divine' kings and emperors were depicted in the nude in art and sculpture when their mortal counterparts were clothed. Horo's nudity is a representation of her divine or semi-divine nature and because of that if anyone accuses fans of Spice & Wolf of being perverts just looking at Horo, we can explain that there are very good symbolic reasons why Horo is frequently depicted in the nude in a non-ecchi way... |
2009-09-01, 02:04 | Link #148 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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I didnt meant to bring up an immature aspect. I just wanted to liven this thread up a bit. *success* Last edited by FTGT; 2009-09-01 at 02:53. |
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2009-09-01, 12:03 | Link #149 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Not yelling at you (sorry if it seemed like that) ... but I was pretty put out by the "Nagi incident" and it rubs my fur the wrong way that some idiot somewhere is trying the idea out on ホロ. Here, I'll just address the incorrect assumptions of the writer:
Hmmm I think Horo may still be a Virgin. Opinion, everyone is welcome to an opinion. But then the rest of it goes downhill. Even though she does have a human form she still thinks very much like a wolf and wolves usually don't have sex unless it's to produce off spring False. Wolves have sex to bond and to maintain pack relationships. I've seen a number of ridiculous posts in which writers basically document they have no clue how wolves work. and I'm pretty sure Horo isn't a mother, she would have at least said so by now Reasonable assumption but "pretty sure" is unwarranted from a forensics perspective. . Also Horo is a goddess of harvest. Which ties in with fertility, which is associated with the Virgin image. What? Now he's just making stuff up. Harvest goddesses and fertility goddesses have *lots* of sex in mythology. I can only assume he's reaching for that dysfunctional stapling on of the "Virgin Mary" to substitute for feminine goddesses that communities forced into Christianity often did. There's no functional connection there. Also back then I'm pretty sure they had little to no contraceptives, so if she was having sex, it would be fair to say she would have kids by now. There were contraceptive methods then - (e.g. condoms made from sheep's innards), there was also rhythm method (that part of the month women are infertile). But the failure is this --- ホロ is not human nor is she a regular wolf (which have very easily discerned fertile/infertile periods). She's a demi-goddess or at least a member of a very special species. So the writer's assumptions simply have no traction without more information. But also because of Horo's own personalty has some thing to do with it. I think Horo is way to proud to be dominated by a man like that. This fails to even make sense and assumes that sex is an inherently "dominating" activity rather than a mutually desirable affair. ホロ might want someone she trusts and can go eye-to-eye with but claiming she is "too proud to have sex" is just an instant fail assertion. In my view, this probably puts the writer in the category of people who have never been in a relationship that pontificate about relationships.
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2009-09-01, 13:38 | Link #150 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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Quote:
I get the impression that some people mistake "virility" with "virginity". I wonder how many people have this impression? Shows just how backward our thinking has become, to think that a god(dess) of fertility/verility would be a virgin. |
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2009-09-01, 14:54 | Link #151 | |
Of The West
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kansai
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2009-09-01, 15:16 | Link #152 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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But if they are going after that demographic, then the choice of a sultry pagan deity with an obvious sex drive may not be the best/most accessible way to denote "virginity". |
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2009-09-03, 23:06 | Link #155 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Where I am, what more do you need to know?
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Yen Press when they first licensed Spice and Wolf, had written Horo as Ho"r"o, with an R.
But now it says Holo on the site. ACK! Guys, we must act quickly before the books are finalized and printed for shipment. We must keep Horo's name correct, as HO"R"O! lol -Matt PS. ALSO, we need to insist that they not change Nora to Nola. Horo and Nora are perfect names, and I feel changing them could pottentially hurt sales, considering a good sounding name can be a good step to becoming succesful. So who's up for an e-mail campaign to help make sure the english licensed novels keep the correct spelling? ^_^ |
2009-09-04, 00:18 | Link #156 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Too late.... the japanese production company dictated the names. Someone on the Japan side is infatuated with "lo" versus "ro"....
As much as I'd like it to be "Horo", the publishing company in Japan seems determined to go with "Holo". That's why I just write ホロ anymore.... :P Besides, it isn't "the correct spelling" ... the correct spelling is ホロ. Any english transcription is only an approximation of the sounds. Advanced Hepburn or whatever you use - "lo" and "ro" neither completely matches the "l/d/r" sound of that character "ロ". Every textbook I have uses "ro" for that sound but older textbooks and some variants are known to use "lo" ... and someone who makes decisions seems to have learned it that way or simply thinks the letter "l" looks cooler than the letter "r". I suppose its a few points that they are using the German spelling of Lawrence's name "Kraft"
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2009-09-04, 01:35 | Link #158 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Most translated adaptations have to undergo approval by their japanese licensors, especially the names.
By all means, write to Yen and plead the case for "Horo". I've already written a while back and ask that Yen Press research it and push back at their licensors. However, I have a sneaking suspicion the very reason we saw ホロ's signed name (as Holo) a few episodes ago is that the japanese production has heard the pushback from the American fans and basically settled the matter visually in their eyes. Hey, I even took her name (in the light novels) to a few Japanese instructors I know and they were like, "of course it should be "ro" that's the official romaji for that character". They also intuitively made the connection to the Ainu word for wolf. I'm just sensing some older stubborn guy at the other end of this decision No one has been able to find a European source for the name (unlike Chloe or Lawrence, etc) and so far the author has been silent on the matter. Either way, if you're pronouncing it properly, "Horo" or "Holo" will sound exactly the same. edit: Now this is the first I've heard of them writing "Nora" as "Nola" ... if so, that's definitely offbase as there's clearly a European name spelled "Nora". Blergh... another reason to learn Japanese and blow off the translations, eh? I don't see anything on the Yen Press site speaking of Nora (Nola). Got a link?
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-09-04 at 01:46. |
2009-09-04, 22:38 | Link #159 |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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I guess the question is if anyone here would be able to read the translated novels with Horo's name being put in as Holo? I just don't get why they were so firm on sticking with Holo. If people have sent in mail then they should know how people feel about that spelling. You'd think they'd want fans of the series to buy the novel. I just find it sad that we have the novels coming out and the most important character's name is done wrong. It may not technically be wrong but it feels wrong.
I'll send a message even though no one there will give a damn. Anyways back to good Horo discussion. You have to appreciate how much Horo enjoyed that meal in episode 9. There was barely anything left .
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