Re:Zero - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [FINALE]

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Thanks! For what it's worth, this is probably Emilia's best episode since way back in the first arc.

There's a certain awkwardness to Emilia that I sometimes find off-putting... but in this episode, it was actually kinda cute.

Maybe that's a factor for Subaru. Maybe he likes having a girlfriend that will act with a certain quirkiness or awkward uncertainty to his over-the-top lines, while Rem is more of a serious straight-shooter. I myself would probably prefer the low-maintenance of the serious straight-shooter, but I can understand Subaru maybe preferring a quirkier girl as that suits his playful personality well.

Well, she did admit that she is a little off and has a tendency to do and say weird things sometimes, probably something to do with resembling Satella.

But yes, Rem's straightforwardness is very appealing when set against the sea that is Tsunderes in anime

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Maybe that's a factor for Subaru. Maybe he likes having a girlfriend that will act with a certain quirkiness or awkward uncertainty to his over-the-top lines, while Rem is more of a serious straight-shooter. I myself would probably prefer the low-maintenance of the serious straight-shooter, but I can understand Subaru maybe preferring a quirkier girl as that suits his playful personality well.

That, and also like what Reckoner said:

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The thing that Subaru really liked about Emilia at the start was how despite having her own problems, she couldn't help but try to help everyone around her including him to her detriment. It all started with something really simple.

So, Emilia is more like Emiya Shirou, and Subaru is more like Rin Tohsaka who just can't leave Shirou alone .

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by DemonneoPT

I kinda understand why the author decided to finish the anime in the way it ended. Subaru and Emilia talk, together with the legendary STYX HELIX ED totally goes according Nagatsuki Tappei philosophy for his story, just like he explained in his tweet: "Getting detoured, continuing to stray away, getting lost, it's just that kind of story. A boy with no confidence trying to convey his feelings for a girl with no confidence. Just for that, i did my best."

But the shock/surprise effect the series gave us through it's cliffhangers or the mysterious Satella appearances (among other stuff) was the thing i liked the most. Episode 15 finale was the best example of that. I was literally with my mouth opened screaming "WTF did i just see?" or "Dafuq is that giant thing?"...lol. It was amazing, brutal, shocking and mindblowing. The beheaded MC being covered in snow with that fucking OST and credits passing by made me feel so many different emotions at the same time i can't even properly explain it. As soon Subaru got his checkpoint upgraded i immediately thought for myself that such situation would be a two-edged sword since nothing in Re:Zero is so convenient. Sure the story is not finished yet but for me, ending the anime with a brutal plot twist revelation would have been way more impactful and faithful to the what i call Re Zero's "shock" factor! Rem only got popular because of everything she went through and episode 18 only had impact because of everything that happened to Subaru especially with the way the author played with the usual "isekai" MC tropes! What better way to finish this title if not with what made it popular at first place?

I know that globally speaking the audience approval would probably be the same since there are people who enjoyed the happy ending and the ones who expected something different, just like me (curiously, that does not seem to be the case in this forum tho ). There is no way to please everyone, but that's just my opinion as to why i think something else should have happened!

The same? An ending like that would be shittier than the one to NGNL to most people, I bet. Most people don't really like "to be continued" when it's not being continued.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Very solid ending. There's some quibbles I could make, but nothing severely bad. The action scenes in particular were very well-animated and entertaining to watch.


On the "Waifu Wars" discussion...

Here on Anime Suki, the two mostly highly rated Re:Zero episodes, by far, are Episodes 15 and 18. And Rem shines very brightly in both episodes, while Emilia is largely absent from them. So I think that some of us mentally associate Rem with Re:Zero at its best, and that sort of thing leaves a strong impression. This certainly isn't to say that the non-Rem parts of Re:Zero aren't good - They are mostly good, such as this final episode being very good. But Re:Zero Episodes 15 and 18 left a serious impact on the anime fandom that I probably haven't seen since Madoka Magica Episode 10. And just like Akemi Homura became a huge deal after that Madoka Magica episode, Rem is a huge deal now.

And Rem is madly in love with Subaru. And Rem fans want to see her get a happy ending, of course. The motivation for Rem/Subaru shippers really isn't that complicated. Also keep in mind that some of us big Rem fans, including myself, mostly like Subaru. His dialogue can be cringey at times, but other than that, he's an excellent male lead.

All of the above being said, I accept Subaru/Emilia. I don't happily accept it, but I accept it. White Fox deserves a round of applause for its excellent Re:Zero work. With a resume now including Re:Zero, Steins;Gate, and Gochiusa, this studio has a lot to feel good about right now, and I hope we'll see plenty more White Fox anime shows in the future. So for any disgruntled Subaru/Rem shipper that is sending hate-mail to White Fox, or doing something even worse than that, I strongly disagree with their actions, and I hope they cut it out.

Congrats to Subaru/Emilia shippers. Don't let any of the controversy get you down, and enjoy your victory.

I wish i can upvote your comment, exactly this, I mean i understand that Emillia is the plot girl, the main heroine, but with how the Anime progress you can't exactly deny why Rem is beating every heroine in every polls everywhere.

Hence why i thought the ending was forced because of the way Anime portray the dynamic relationship between subaru and rem better than subaru x emillia.

episode 15 basically cement Rem as one of my favourite heroine of all time. I have no idea what happened in re zero web novel all i have is anime as my source, so i stand firm with this notion for now, and surely many people also share this judging from the polls.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Joachim

I wish i can upvote your comment, exactly this, I mean i understand that Emillia is the plot girl, the main heroine, but with how the Anime progress you can't exactly deny why Rem is beating every heroine in every polls everywhere.

Hence why i thought the ending was forced because of the way Anime portray the dynamic relationship between subaru and rem better than subaru x emillia.

episode 15 basically cement Rem as one of my favourite heroine of all time. I have no idea what happened in re zero web novel all i have is anime as my source, so i stand firm with this notion for now, and surely many people also share this judging from the polls.

If you like a certain character I don't know why you need popluarity polls to validate that. Some secondary characters being more popluar than the MCs isn't a new phenomena nor does necessary mean that characters are actually better nor something like that affect the intergity of the story.

I don't see how SubaruxRem is strictly better than SubaruxEmilia. Preffered, yes, buy hardly a foregone conclusion this early on. The relationship between the two the pairings aren't writien to be developed in the exact sameway. It's not like Subaru hadn't interact with a lot Emilia with good chemistry either. Those two get along very well up to episode 13. So I don't see how the ending is forced anyway outside shipper bias. Espeically when one of themes of post "From Zero" was Subaru reconciling his relationships and redeeming himself. He and Emilia also parted ways on a really emotional note that consisently huanted them since then so it is entirely fiting that they reunion in turn was another one.

I get you and others like Rem a lot, but Subaru has always had relations outside of her. Her love and devotion (which was recent) was merely directed at him regardless of how he felt, so there was nothing promised to her. And in the end it's not as if the story is telling you to stop liking Rem anyway.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Joachim

I wish i can upvote your comment, exactly this, I mean i understand that Emillia is the plot girl, the main heroine, but with how the Anime progress you can't exactly deny why Rem is beating every heroine in every polls everywhere.

Hence why i thought the ending was forced because of the way Anime portray the dynamic relationship between subaru and rem better than subaru x emillia.

episode 15 basically cement Rem as one of my favourite heroine of all time. I have no idea what happened in re zero web novel all i have is anime as my source, so i stand firm with this notion for now, and surely many people also share this judging from the polls.

But the problem isn't the popularity of the character itself, rather, the problem I have is people being unable to cope with the fact that some dude is not in love with their waifu.

You can call Rem your 'best girl' all you want, I'm not going to contest you on that. The problem is when a guy is apparently an asshole or idiot for falling in love with someone else.

Imagine you knew a girl who was really nice and loyal. And you think your male friend would be a perfect match for her. But he's already in love with someone else. What kind of friend would you be if you keep getting on their case for "falling for the wrong girl"?

And if you do not see Subaru as a friend... Then what does it even matter who he falls for?

[pezzie]

Yea, it's more of a case that Subaru falls in love with Emilia before he even meets Rem. Things like that happen. It's not like after Rem's confession, he can just turn a switch and move his love-o-meter from Emilia to Rem. It's totally understandable why he still loves Emilia, given that he basically latched onto her the way Rem latched onto him.

That being said, Rem is the best girl.

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by Dengar

The same? An ending like that would be shittier than the one to NGNL to most people, I bet. Most people don't really like "to be continued" when it's not being continued.

See, i loved NGNL ending..lol. Because i was not expecting that crazy surprise at the end which made me wanting a season 2 even more.
I read a lot about Re:Zero's final episode and i guarantee you i'm not alone in my view. A lot of people disliked the anti-climatic happy ending that was clearly not one of the series strong points as i explained in my previous post. In this forum, however, it seems everyone liked it except some hardcore Rem shippers for the obvious reasons

[Dengar]

I never said you were alone. I just find it unlikely for you to be the majority. Most people do not enjoy feeling frustrated and cheated.

[DemonneoPT]

That's maybe because i don't feel frustrated or cheated at all towards such endings. I already knew what to expect. This and NGNL were meant to be just a way to promote the LNs and therefore everyone knew the anime would be unfinished. Even if there is no season 2 and even if the story does not end in a cliffhanger or some teasing into future content, you would still get an incomplete product no matter what. The last episode was far from making me feel any closure towards Re:Zero's story since too many questions were still walking around and too many things still needed to be explored. Ending as a cliffhanger or not would be the same thing regarding that aspect to me. However, with something else besides the typicall boring happy scenario at least the strongest point of the series would appear once again one last time. That's my type of endings and it has nothing to do with frustration. Actually, i realize now that i feel frustrated and cheated because that did not happen . So i kinda understand how people like you would feel if they didn't like the series finale. That's why it's impossible to please everyone but i just wanted to share why i feel this way... nothing else.

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Cutting corners to make sure there is some form of "intermediate closure" is perfectly acceptable.

But there is no closure at all.

I was not watching a romantic slice of life story about Subaru and Emilia. I was watching a twisty portal fantasy that had a lot of questions for the viewer to think over.
I got almost zero answers.
Why is Subaru in this world? What exactly was the mystery behind the first shots? What is the witch exactly? What is her connection to Subaru? Why do Puck and Emilia have that kind of contract? Does Julius have a similar one, if not, why not, how does it work in their world anyway? Why does she look exactly like the witch (and no, being a possible vessel is not the answer). Why does the witch keep bringing Subaru back when he is energetically opposing her plans? What are her real plans? What about the assassin who liked guts? Who hired her? What’s the deal with the Dragon?
I could go on.

Pretty much none of the questions--including those poised by the very structure of the script--got answers. The open ending is so open three White Whales could swim through it.

For me, the ending is ruined not because I'm a LN reader (I'm not), but because I didn't get any answers to the questions that hooked me into watching the anime. When a story piles up secrets and twists, revealing them is a big part of its resolution. Quoting a comment from a reviewer's blog--it's like we were watching a mystery and never learned who the murderer was.

Same with the worldbuilding, we get hints and glimpses here and there but they are never gathered into a global picture.

[SeaDoor]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

But there is no closure at all.

I was not watching a romantic slice of life story about Subaru and Emilia. I was watching a twisty portal fantasy that had a lot of questions for the viewer to think over.
I got almost zero answers.
Why... [snip]

I would guess that most of the open questions are still part of an on-going story. I get the impression that this series ended less that halfway through the existing story. So yeah, there would be lots of unanswered questions at this point.

I give credit to the author for establishing a rich enough basis for the narrative that White Fox and its production staff could get to a proper stopping point without resorting to an "anime-only ending." What White Fox accomplished here was a good demonstration of how thorough production planning can be used to produce a quality series.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by Dengar

But the problem isn't the popularity of the character itself, rather, the problem I have is people being unable to cope with the fact that some dude is not in love with their waifu.

You can call Rem your 'best girl' all you want, I'm not going to contest you on that. The problem is when a guy is apparently an asshole or idiot for falling in love with someone else.

Imagine you knew a girl who was really nice and loyal. And you think your male friend would be a perfect match for her. But he's already in love with someone else. What kind of friend would you be if you keep getting on their case for "falling for the wrong girl"?

And if you do not see Subaru as a friend... Then what does it even matter who he falls for?

do i even scratch or point out that I hate subaru because he love emillia? this is getting ridiculous mate, again you prefer emillia, I dont see a problem with that, all i said based on the anime alone, which in my opinion (again i stress its my opinion) does relationship part of rem and subaru better than subaru and emillia. thats all im saying, i dont see why you and applehell gets so.. um i dont know the word except triggerred with this?

if me pointing out Rem destroying female characters popularity polls is an annoyance, then accept my apologies. I still dont see why the two of you needs to be abit passive aggresive on this.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by Applehell

If you like a certain character I don't know why you need popluarity polls to validate that. Some secondary characters being more popluar than the MCs isn't a new phenomena nor does necessary mean that characters are actually better nor something like that affect the intergity of the story.

I don't see how SubaruxRem is strictly better than SubaruxEmilia. Preffered, yes, buy hardly a foregone conclusion this early on. The relationship between the two the pairings aren't writien to be developed in the exact sameway. It's not like Subaru hadn't interact with a lot Emilia with good chemistry either. Those two get along very well up to episode 13. So I don't see how the ending is forced anyway outside shipper bias. Espeically when one of themes of post "From Zero" was Subaru reconciling his relationships and redeeming himself. He and Emilia also parted ways on a really emotional note that consisently huanted them since then so it is entirely fiting that they reunion in turn was another one.

I get you and others like Rem a lot, but Subaru has always had relations outside of her. Her love and devotion (which was recent) was merely directed at him regardless of how he felt, so there was nothing promised to her. And in the end it's not as if the story is telling you to stop liking Rem anyway.

i get the passive aggressiveness from your post, lets just stop it at you prefer emillia, i prefer Rem, okie?

cmon people, chill

[Reckoner]

This is little better than a shipping war. The important detail is that there is a valid in story reason why Subaru became attracted to Emilia in the first place. There justifiably is a good reason for Rem too, but that was not the author's choice. Is that choice better or not? Hard to say. Subaru went to hell and back because he wanted to save Emilia. The basic character motivation is not there otherwise and we wouldn't really have the story we did have here.

There is also a big gap in the screen time department between Emilia and Rem. It makes sense why most viewers like her character significantly more. You have an underdeveloped character who (in her own words) hasn't really done anything for Subaru versus the person who will actually sacrifice herself for him. Emilia has been kept more mysterious on purpose it seems.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Joachim

do i even scratch or point out that I hate subaru because he love emillia? this is getting ridiculous mate, again you prefer emillia, I dont see a problem with that, all i said based on the anime alone, which in my opinion (again i stress its my opinion) does relationship part of rem and subaru better than subaru and emillia. thats all im saying, i dont see why you and applehell gets so.. um i dont know the word except triggerred with this?

if me pointing out Rem destroying female characters popularity polls is an annoyance, then accept my apologies. I still dont see why the two of you needs to be abit passive aggresive on this.

Dear lord, where do I even begin deconstructing this?

Ok lets start with pointing out that I never actually mentioned my preference, so you saying I prefer Emilia makes me wonder if you paid any attention at all to the things I said.

Also if you have any example of me being passive aggressive, please quote me because I have no clue what you're talking about.

I'm also not sure what gave you the idea that I am annoyed by Rem destroying female characters in popularity polls. I was merely confused (and still am) at the fact that this somehow means that Subaru being in love with Emilia is a crime.

[Azurial]

Let's face it Rem and Emilia trash waifu >: D and Patrasche best girl XD

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

But there is no closure at all.

I was not watching a romantic slice of life story about Subaru and Emilia. I was watching a twisty portal fantasy that had a lot of questions for the viewer to think over.

It closed the conflict of this arc, not the series. The questions you ask were things that were never going to be awnsered immediately, but bulit up and unravel gradually as the story progress. It otherwords it ended like hundreds of incompete adaptations.

Originally Posted by Joachim

i get the passive aggressiveness from your post, lets just stop it at you prefer emillia, i prefer Rem, okie?

cmon people, chill

I'm not being passive aggressive with you. I'm merely stating the fact regardless of any external factors (Rem's popularity etc) from the series itself Subaru had other relationships that had been buliding beyond just Rem. The story never lost sight of that. If it did then the entire series would been different from the start.

[Metaneo]

Before y'all go and get this thread closed, one thing that I'm interested in is, before Betelguise possessed Subaru, he told Julius to remove his spirit from him, was this because it would have been dangerous for Julius and his spirit, or because Subaru didn't want him to maybe somehow figure out what was going on?

[Jaden]

Spoiler for Quote (IllegalGoddess):

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

But there is no closure at all.

I was not watching a romantic slice of life story about Subaru and Emilia. I was watching a twisty portal fantasy that had a lot of questions for the viewer to think over.
I got almost zero answers.
Why is Subaru in this world? What exactly was the mystery behind the first shots? What is the witch exactly? What is her connection to Subaru? Why do Puck and Emilia have that kind of contract? Does Julius have a similar one, if not, why not, how does it work in their world anyway? Why does she look exactly like the witch (and no, being a possible vessel is not the answer). Why does the witch keep bringing Subaru back when he is energetically opposing her plans? What are her real plans? What about the assassin who liked guts? Who hired her? What’s the deal with the Dragon?
I could go on.

Pretty much none of the questions--including those poised by the very structure of the script--got answers. The open ending is so open three White Whales could swim through it.

For me, the ending is ruined not because I'm a LN reader (I'm not), but because I didn't get any answers to the questions that hooked me into watching the anime. When a story piles up secrets and twists, revealing them is a big part of its resolution. Quoting a comment from a reviewer's blog--it's like we were watching a mystery and never learned who the murderer was.

Same with the worldbuilding, we get hints and glimpses here and there but they are never gathered into a global picture.

I agree, those are legitimate grievances.

I think Re:Zero has a problem of scale. It's obvious that the writer intended it to be an epic like Game of Thrones or something from the start. A true ending would be a resolution to whatever mission Subaru was sent to this world for, and to the royal selection. All other goals that Subaru has had are just stepping stones to that, and can't really make for a proper ending.

And in the way we have the witch's cult, of which only 1/6 has been addressed, some kind of subplot hinted at by Elsa in the beginning, and actually dealing with the other candidates which has barely begun. And it's reasonable to assume that the TRUE story will be even greater in scale.

There is a real possibility that in anime form, the story will always remain unfinished. So I'm not sure how I'm supposed to rate it. Sure, the season got some kind of ending, but if it ends here I can't really recommend it. It's like if the LOTR movies were cancelled after the first one. Yay, the hobbits made it to Rivendell! What a great ending! Not. If it ends here, I'd have to conclude that the show sucks.