[PS3/PSV] Legend of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LROlsson

Things from the stream.
The games begins with level 50, the curtains for the story will truly fall with Sen IV, but there will be a curtain raise for kiseki series again in the future.
The prologue shown takes place immediately after sen 3, this time it was voiced.
The game play part was showing of Ursula hospital.

Now that I just finished Ao, hearing about Ursula hospital makes me happy. ~

Wow, this sounds really interesting. I'm pretty excited.

Also, lol, isn't 50 a little low, all things considered? (I guess they're resetting the power scale and correctly balancing out the strengths of all the characters from the different sub-series?)

Also, speaking of when Sen III and IV might get localized. Won't it be even later since it's pretty likely that both Zero and Ao will be localized before Sen III and IV get localized?

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by dniv

Now that I just finished Ao, hearing about Ursula hospital makes me happy. ~

Wow, this sounds really interesting. I'm pretty excited.

Also, lol, isn't 50 a little low, all things considered? (I guess they're resetting the power scale and correctly balancing out the strengths of all the characters from the different sub-series?)

Also, speaking of when Sen III and IV might get localized. Won't it be even later since it's pretty likely that both Zero and Ao will be localized before Sen III and IV get localized?

It's actually depend i guess, Zero and Ao have older graphics style, so the localization company might Opt to avoid it, but you do have a point, they might actually get it before Sen3 and 4.

[LROlsson]

Originally Posted by dniv

Also, lol, isn't 50 a little low, all things considered? (I guess they're resetting the power scale and correctly balancing out the strengths of all the characters from the different sub-series?)

Not really, at the end of Sen III your levels were somewhere between 50 to 60, so it's not that big of a difference.
Either way, levels don't matter story wise, and liberl, crossbell and Erebonia's east and west levels might not have the same value if you really care.

[MeoTwister5]

I'm actually starting to suspect that power levels are affected and relative to your geopolitical location on Zemuria.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I'm actually starting to suspect that power levels are affected and relative to your geopolitical location on Zemuria.

Ahahaha yes me too lmao.

And it's surprising to hear that Sen III ends with only level 50-60 characters, lol.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Well Erebonia is one of the largest countries and has been in war a lot so of course there will be a lot of people with high power levels.It makes sense tbh.

[MeoTwister5]

Well when you look back at it, the Sky cast never really had to fight those singular, eponymous and grossly overpowered individuals until Loewe in SC and Sort-of-Cassius in TC.

The SSS had to fight at least 3 of them in 2 games, including one of the most powerful Jaegers alive, one of the so-called Divine Blades of Wind, and certainly not least the most powerful individual on the Continent.

Rean and co. had to fight a whole bunch of them.

[Marx-93]

Sen III basically gave up trying to relate levels with story, which makes sense given that CSII already finished with you around level 150~.

Rean starts at around level 10 despite being described as one of the strongest from the beginning, and for example Aurelia joins you with no major difference in level with your party (in contrast to Sara having +60 levels from you in CSI). It tries to still make some things clear through gameplay: the way the game is structured means Rean will always have a level advantage over almost every character (and especially new class VII), and Aurelia had utterly ridiculous stats and skills despite being of a similar level. But now it's much more of a qualitative thing instead of a quantitative one.

So, TLDR, levels in itself mean very little, we'll have to await and see how things go.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Marx-93

Sen III basically gave up trying to relate levels with story, which makes sense given that CSII already finished with you around level 150~.

Rean starts at around level 10 despite being described as one of the strongest from the beginning, and for example Aurelia joins you with no major difference in level with your party (in contrast to Sara having +60 levels from you in CSI). It tries to still make some things clear through gameplay: the way the game is structured means Rean will always have a level advantage over almost every character (and especially new class VII), and Aurelia had utterly ridiculous stats and skills despite being of a similar level. But now it's much more of a qualitative thing instead of a quantitative one.

So, TLDR, levels in itself mean very little, we'll have to await and see how things go.

That's pretty interesting to know. I didn't know that about Sen III. Thanks.

[LROlsson]

Dengeki have uploaded the "top 10 games dengeki readers are looking forward" video that was shown on the stream. From this month it's also going to be videos.
Sen 4 is on the first place again

YouTube

https://youtu.be/JB5GyYyo4ok

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Well when you look back at it, the Sky cast never really had to fight those singular, eponymous and grossly overpowered individuals until Loewe in SC and Sort-of-Cassius in TC.

The SSS had to fight at least 3 of them in 2 games, including one of the most powerful Jaegers alive, one of the so-called Divine Blades of Wind, and certainly not least the most powerful individual on the Continent.

Rean and co. had to fight a whole bunch of them.

However to be fair, the Sky cast is the only one to have fought a full-scale of Enforcers who were equal or better than what SSS and Class VII fought overall which included masters of Taito which is considered on par Eight Leavers Style, enhanced humans with genius combat abilities (which we learn even more about in Zero) and some of best arts users in Zemuria. Basically a bunch of Arios and Jeager King level foes strength wise. Lowe himself is just that one god-like opponent that has appeared every storyline that stands above the rest. You can only really count Lowe (Liberl Arc), Arianhod (Crossbel Arc) and both McBurn and Arianhod again (Erebonia Arc) in this category.

I think what really speaks well to Rean's strength here

Spoiler for Sen/CS III:

is that he fought Arianhod one-on-one and held his ground for more than 5 minutes in Ogre mode. Of course he would have lost if she decided to get serious, but fact he had make her get there to win is amazing.

[MeoTwister5]

Rean's ogre mode is of course impressive in and of itself, but I'd like to believe that pure undiluted strength isn't the only the only thing that will decide a fight. If anything, the series has time and again emphasized how a lot of top tier characters win/survive fights not because they were demigods of war, but possessed a special quality that allows them to succeed in situations other people would have no chance of surviving.

Case in point is Cassius who, despite the obvious downgrade when he went staff, is capable of seeing the truth of things and thus puts him on equal footing with the likes of the Society's best. There's a reason you could argue that all of Ouroborous's maneuverings in FC was just to get him out of the way.

Similarly and given time, Estelle with her unbreakable silver will and Lloyd's genius level insight/intellect grants them distinct advantages you don't see in simple martial arts masters. As they are and by their own admission they aren't as good in martial arts as Zemuria's walking legends, but they will reach said levels eventually with their own unique qualities.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Rean's ogre mode is of course impressive in and of itself, but I'd like to believe that pure undiluted strength isn't the only the only thing that will decide a fight. If anything, the series has time and again emphasized how a lot of top tier characters win/survive fights not because they were demigods of war, but possessed a special quality that allows them to succeed in situations other people would have no chance of surviving.

Case in point is Cassius who, despite the obvious downgrade when he went staff, is capable of seeing the truth of things and thus puts him on equal footing with the likes of the Society's best. There's a reason you could argue that all of Ouroborous's maneuverings in FC was just to get him out of the way.

Similarly and given time, Estelle with her unbreakable silver will and Lloyd's genius level insight/intellect grants them distinct advantages you don't see in simple martial arts masters. As they are and by their own admission they aren't as good in martial arts as Zemuria's walking legends, but they will reach said levels eventually with their own unique qualities.

I think the issue is that people focuses more on Rean's Ogre Mode than his actual skills in swordsmanship (for obvious reasons). Even without it, Rean has shown that his skills with the sword/katana is great; sure, he's not a master, but not terrible (plus, I seriously doubt that Yun Kafei would've chosen to train/advice Rean just because of it). It's also to note that Rean doesn't exactly has a high opinion of himself, and his mental state isn't exactly great (in which both has good reasons why it's happening), which is just hurting himself more with his abilities.

Not like it's not justified in him having that line of thinking. He was worried about that power, a power he has no clear understanding of and what kind of power it was, so he was seeking answers so that he can better prepare himself. It was one of the reasons Rean was seeking answers from Yun Kafei and the 8 Leaves 1 Sword style, in which Yun Kufei, for some reason, was against it (although, looking how much that power has been causing Rean problems, along with how Yun Kafei stated in his letter (CS3) how he felt Rean's situation as a 'hero' isn't as terrible as Rean making it sound, I'm starting to think that Yun Kafei isn't as helpful as some people believe he is).

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Rean without Ogre Mode is almost equal or close to Wallace and Sara in Sen 3. His skills were also showcased in Sen 2 during bond events with Sara and Sharon.

His sword skills along with ogre mode & valimar puts him above the rest in power levels. Estelle and Llyod aren't the only ones with willpower/intellect. Rean had gone through way several hells and had to pick himself up time and again.

[Marx-93]

Rean's sword talent is something that indeed shouldn't be forgotten. He himself severely underestimates himself and downplays his skills, but Yun Kafai's letter in Sen III basically said that he choose him as his 'last disciple' and the he would try to teach him the secrets of the seventh form, which neither Cassius nor Arios had mastered.

While the secret of his ogre power likely played into that, given how dismissive Kafai is of it in the whole letter I would say Rean's raw talent with the sword is likely monstrous too. Which kinda explains his growth between Sen II and III, that put him from student to one of the best fighters in the Empire even without ogre mode.

Not to downplay Estelle and Lloyd though. A fight consists of a lot of thing, and even then there's a lot of stuff besides the individual fights; Estelle's biggest achievement was bringing back Joshua, and Lloyd's was convincing Arios. Heck, all appearances of Lloyd in Sen have always been with an incredible skilled fighter as his companion (Rixia and Arios), while you can't separate Estelle from Joshua. In comparison Rean is constantly alone when it matters the most, so you can't really compare them.

[MeoTwister5]

So I just started the final chapter of Ao no Kiseki.

I'm starting to understand why people consider this game to have the (currently) very central place in the narrative of the entire overarching story of Zemuria. A lot of the things here certainly plugged up a lot of the holes and questions left over from the first 2 Erebonian games if you never played Crossbell before Erebonia, and certainly clarified a lot of the lingering issues left over from the Liberl trilogy. At this point it's probably safe to say that it might be more prudent to really play Crossbell before Erebonia if you have the opportunity.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

I think the issue is that people focuses more on Rean's Ogre Mode than his actual skills in swordsmanship (for obvious reasons). Even without it, Rean has shown that his skills with the sword/katana is great; sure, he's not a master, but not terrible (plus, I seriously doubt that Yun Kafei would've chosen to train/advice Rean just because of it). It's also to note that Rean doesn't exactly has a high opinion of himself, and his mental state isn't exactly great (in which both has good reasons why it's happening), which is just hurting himself more with his abilities.

Not like it's not justified in him having that line of thinking. He was worried about that power, a power he has no clear understanding of and what kind of power it was, so he was seeking answers so that he can better prepare himself. It was one of the reasons Rean was seeking answers from Yun Kafei and the 8 Leaves 1 Sword style, in which Yun Kufei, for some reason, was against it (although, looking how much that power has been causing Rean problems, along with how Yun Kafei stated in his letter (CS3) how he felt Rean's situation as a 'hero' isn't as terrible as Rean making it sound, I'm starting to think that Yun Kafei isn't as helpful as some people believe he is).

Sorry, I don't mean downplay Rean's skills at all. I'm only highlighting that in ogre form Rean can break certain physical limits at his current level much faster than he otherwise wouldn't be able to without further mastery of Eight Leaves One Sword. His skill is still that of intermediates practitioner in CSII and CSIII as far as I know. I don't separate Ogre from him as that is Rean at his best, but the boost in strength and speed is far too noticeable to ignore.

@MeoTwister

IIRC remember Sky also mention that reason Cassuis is weaker now with a staff instead of a sword is becasue he only recently switched disciplines over the years compared to how long he was with sword. So even hasn't master it's use yet.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

So I just started the final chapter of Ao no Kiseki.

I'm starting to understand why people consider this game to have the (currently) very central place in the narrative of the entire overarching story of Zemuria. A lot of the things here certainly plugged up a lot of the holes and questions left over from the first 2 Erebonian games if you never played Crossbell before Erebonia, and certainly clarified a lot of the lingering issues left over from the Liberl trilogy. At this point it's probably safe to say that it might be more prudent to really play Crossbell before Erebonia if you have the opportunity.

Very much yes. I just finished Ao very recently as well so I agree and understand. But I think it's also interesting to have played Crossbell after CS I and II though playing it the other way could have been interesting as well.

[MeoTwister5]

I also now understand why people put Zero/Ao OST one of, if not, as the best in the series. Azure Arbitrator is amazing. Not as fucking amazing as Silver Will Super though.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I also now understand why people put Zero/Ao OST one of, if not, as the best in the series. Azure Arbitrator is amazing. Not as fucking amazing as Silver Will Super though.

I like inevitable struggle arranged more The best themes for me were the evo version of a trap lurking in the city, the evo version of silence in the sunlight filtering through the trees, the normal version of a barrier to get over, the normal and evo versions of Delusion of a Thousand years, the normal version of dark throne, (mystic core normal is also very catchy/epic in one part), the truth of a rainy day normal, beyond the paradise of lies is solid, and obviously some of the other ones that I won't mention ... but my favorite one from Ao is Thrusted Reality normal, that song sends shivers down my spine every time.

Silver will super arrange is definitely one of the greatest ost's in the series though ... but I think inevitable struggle super arrange and Thrusted Reality normal are better though.