New Mobile Report Gundam Wing: Frozen Teardrop (2010 Novel)

[Leave The Pieces]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

Inane Insane (I know you're ESL, so, I figured I'd clarify that for you. I said inane, which implies more that it's lacking logic than lacking sanity.)

Holy shiiiiii--sorry, yes, I know inane but OMG for some reason I saw an s and read insane! XD Woops. Sorry! Lol. Man, that was lame. *facepalm*

Anyhow, I still don't think it's inane... but yeah, inane is nowhere near harsh as insane. Man, I'm so embarrassed, haha. (o^,^o) Thank you, Internet. I'm anonymous.

In Duo's case, he explains his behavior and how he's felt since the end of EW himself in chapter 8 which is narrated by him (which I know most people haven't read yet, but he does. You'll see).

I see. You're right, I haven't read it yet.

If chapter 8 explains what happened to him and why he suddenly changed and the explanation is good enough (sorry, it still depends on whether it's good enough for me or not), then I can and will no longer criticise Sumizawa on this.

As for what I meant, he quoted: Which is answering his own question as to why Relena is getting sentimental now. Because she gets sentimental where Heero is concerned- I don't get why this is so difficult to understand? Honest question, because I'm curious if this has anything to do with it: Are you a guy or girl?

His? Wait, IkuzeMinna, is a guy? I thought, umm. Yeah. Okay. Nevermind. Woops.

Anyway. I'm a girl.
Here's an honest question for you as well, what did you think I was based on my posts regarding Relena and her present behaviour?

By "now", you're referring to the example IkuzeMinna said, correct? So the part where Relena goes teary-eyes when Heero survives. Well, IkuzeMinna just answered that, I think. The situation in Endless Waltz supersedes that instance because, well, obviously EW occurs after that. And her situation in EW is more similar to her situation now than Ikuze's example. In addition to the situation in EW: the epilogue. Like I said in my previous post, Relena wasn't shown thinking about Heero then and... well, I'll end up repeating myself and that's kinda lame so I won't. Bottom line, I'm going to have to stand my ground on this one. I strongly believe that the Relena I knew in the series wouldn't cry over something like this. I'm NOT trying to convince other people here that they should question this, too. I'm just saying that I still disagree. But, again, I don't know if something happened between her and Heero between the end of EW and beginning of FT. Which when revealed (if it will ever be revealed, that is), could justify her current behaviour [to me]. I'm NOT saying that it actually needs to be justified. Because it's obvious that a lot of fans don't think it needs to be justified because they can totally see Relena getting all sentimental where Heero is concerned. So her reaction in this chapter doesn't really surprise them. But I guess, unfortunately for me, I'm different--I just saw her differently. That would be the best explanation for this lol.

I know it's a gender stereotype but I am honestly curious if males or females are having a harder time understanding Relena's behavior.

Now you piqued MY interest. Please, indulge me. I know you're still just curious but I think there's already a certain gender who you think would have a harder time understanding Relena than the other. No?

I do NOT see these characters as stereotypes and I think it's very unfair to cast those who are disagreeing with your opinion of the character writing as doing so.

My bad. Remember when you said "a lot of Relena's fans get neurotic when, la de da" and then you were like "I don't necessarily mean you specifically". Well, I guess I should've said that to you in that part of my previous post.

Let me clarify. I didn't mean you or Elo the Blue or anyone else specifically. I know it sounded that way, so I can't blame you for getting miffed. Here, let me elaborate. I didn't mean to say that there are only two types of fans. The one who sees the characters as stereotypes, and the one who doesn't. I'm sure there are more "types" other than those. So when I put myself under that "category" (the one that doesn't see the characters as stereotypes), doesn't automatically mean I'm putting you under the only other type there is.

Just because we (yes, you and I) don't see them as stereotypes, doesn't necessarily mean that the way we see them is the same.

So no, I didn't mean to accuse those who disagree with me as fans who see the characters as stereotypes.
I only said that: "You can't blame the fans who 'notice' these, blah blah", so that the fans who will disagree with me, which I know would be a lot, will see that it's not ridiculous if they try to consider my claims because they're based on my understanding of the canon, anyway.

If my defense still doesn't make sense, do tell. I'll try again.

EDIT: I referenced Hiei and Kuwabara only because imo Goku and Vegeta don't fit the bill. I don't remember those two bickering. Goku's the ditzy sweetheart type and I thought he was always ignorant and lenient (more of the former, maybe) towards Vegeta or anyone else's rude remarks. But I only saw DBZ once and it's been ages so I could be wrong ehehe.

[Kitsoru]

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

His? Wait, IkuzeMinna, is a guy? I thought, umm. Yeah. Okay. Nevermind. Woops.

Anyway. I'm a girl.
Here's an honest question for you as well, what did you think I was based on my posts regarding Relena and her present behaviour?

...I think it is? 8D;; idk it's the internet, that's why I ask, lol! (Correct me if I'm wrong, Ikuze!)
A girl But that's based more on your past posts than this one in particular, but I'm curious what the split is overall!

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

Now you piqued MY interest. Please, indulge me. I know you're still just curious but I think there's already a certain gender who you think would have a harder time understanding Relena than the other. No?

Sort of, yes. But like I said, I already figured you're a girl, which is why I'm curious IF there's a split. I've noticed, reading past discussions just about Wing in general (and taking out the variable of yaoi fangirls who just seem to hate female characters indiscriminately) that a lot of guys I see discussing Wing don't get Relena's behavior a lot of the time either. That's what makes me curious

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

My bad. Remember when you said "a lot of Relena's fans get neurotic when, la de da" and then you were like "I don't necessarily mean you specifically". Well, I guess I should've said that to you in that part of my previous post.

Fair enough ^^

[Leave The Pieces]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

...I think it is? 8D;; idk it's the internet, that's why I ask, lol! (Correct me if I'm wrong, Ikuze!) A girl But that's based more on your past posts than this one in particular, but I'm curious what the split is overall!

Yeah, I understand. This is not the first time this has happened.

My OMG's would give me away but the absence of Relena-hate in my posts make some people think I'm a guy! Lol. There were times when I discussed Relena with girls, I thought they were guys just because they don't seem to hate her. Until they told me. Not to say that guys don't hate Relena. Sadly, there are also a lot of them that do. But meh, who needs 'em. Chicks outnumber them, though!

Fair enough ^^

Haha, it's so funny cuz I just said in that post that I'd constantly be defensive, blah blah, but when I needed to be defensive the most, that's when I got lazy and didn't say a thing (which, when you think about it, was also a good thing because it made that post a few lines shorter lol). I amuse myself. XD

[IkuzeMinna]

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

Mmmm, I feel like the circumstances are different, because in that case it was because she had to show her brave face in front of Mariemaia. You don't show your weakness in front of the enemy, after all. While in this case, she's surrounded by old friends. Does that make sense?

As I said, I don't know the details. Maybe it is different.
Besides, my knee jerk reaction stems from women generally reducing themselves to lovesick puppies or accessories whenever their love interest is around, something that happens a lot and has happened in GW, too. It's one of the few things I dislike about the series. So yeah, for me it's not specifically Relena. I don't know about the others.

Originally Posted by Kitsoru

...I think it is? 8D;; idk it's the internet, that's why I ask, lol! (Correct me if I'm wrong, Ikuze!)

I'm going to pointedly ignore the gender guessing concerning me for the sake of ensuring further amusement for myself and to remain free of prejudice based on gender. Mostly the former though.
Someone's gotta remain shrouded in mystery. *looks at Heero* Right? jk If my posts didn't give me away yet, perhaps we should talk about shipping. Maybe that will make it obvious. xD (see what I'm saying with prejudice?)

[shadowii]

well i'm as confused as before finding out about their meeting

but considering i was envisioning relena as a brainwashed psycopath i am mostly happy with this chapter

anyway with the next gundam anime involving aliens who knows what sensible in gundam anymore

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

Response to IkuzeMinna, Kitsoru and Elo the Blue's posts:

Spoiler for So long, it could be a novel.:

I have to admit, while the two didn't bond, I MYSELF am surprised that they were written as bickering five-year-olds. So yes, if I were the one asked that question, I'd definitely say yes. Those things really would surprise me. And boy, they do.

Actually, one of the things that I liked about Gundam Wing is the fact that (in my eyes, at least) it did NOT have stereotype characters and 'relationships' (such as the cat-and-dog type) like most anime these days do.

While Duo and Wu Fei don't exactly share the same personality, enthusiasm and/or interests, like IkuzeMinna, I don't see them getting all Hiei and Kuwabara to each other. Especially now that they're older. Way older. Imo, in the series and EW, they acted beyond their age. And now that they're older they're being this way? Actually, I thought I was the only one who noticed the off-ness there. Just too insecure, ngl, to bring it up lol. Glad you noticed it too, Ikuze!

So, anyway. No, I'm not surprised that Wu Fei doesn't consider Duo a friend. I wouldn't be surprised if even now at present he still doesn't consider anyone a friend. I'm surprised that he'd bicker with Duo and vice versa. Everytime there will be 'arguments' in the series, I always saw Wu Fei as someone who wouldn't waste his breath over something like bickering. He shrugs, walks out or groans in annoyance if people don't listen to him. He wouldn't quarrel with anyone over "trivial" things. He only talks a lot inside the Shenlong cockpit... or anything's cockpit. And when he does talk a lot, it's always about his principles. At least, that's how I've always seen him. For instance, when Duo commented about Heero going after Relena in Libra near the end. Quatre goes 'leave the lovebirds alone'. Trowa goes 'goes to show how powerful that girl is to be able to influence a guy like Heero, blah blah'.

And what was Mr. Congeniality's comeback? "WEAK!"
Trowa comes to 1xR's aid: Dude. Just greet Relena.

If the Wu Fei then is the same as the FT!Wu Fei, I can see him hitting back at Trowa. But the Wu Fei then, did not. He simply went: Hn!

I always saw him as the guy who wouldn't bother trying to convince people otherwise. Most times, he walked out on people, if I remember correctly. Most of which were in a middle of a conversation, too.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across but here's an example:

A.) Series!Wu Fei versus... me?:

A1) Me: See that chair over there? Yeah. It's blue.
A2) Wu Fei: No. It's indigo.
A3) Me: No. It's blue.
A4) Wu Fei: *walks out*

B.) FT!Wu Fei versus me:

B1) Me: See that chair over there? Yeah. It's blue.
B2) Wu Fei: No. It's indigo.
B3) Me: No. It's blue.
B4) Wu Fei: No. It's indigo.

~repeat lines B3 and B4 1000x~

This is the impression Sumizawa left me with the way he wrote the bickering of Duo and Wu Fei. Obviously, the bit above is an exaggeration. But I hope I'm getting the point of the whole comparison across.

As for Duo, I'm still with IkuzeMinna on this one, I have to admit. It is possible that he simply held back his "emo teenager" side during the series and EW and that it's simply taking its toll on him now.

But still, it doesn't make sense to me, either. Because if anything, he would've shown this side of him back then--when the war was at its peak and they (the pilots) were getting tossed around to places, confused about who to side with, when life was just hands down ugly, blah.

What could something so huge break him down NOW? There's no war or anything at the moment (just threats of it occuring, correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, if he were simply holding back his depression and shiz back in the day, he wouldn't have reacted badly when he witnessed Deathscythe blown to bits by Trowa. He could've felt bad then and just held in it. Cuz theoretically, if he's been keeping all them deep down all along, I can't see the compromise in having this downer added to his already-long list of secret heartaches. What's carrying one more sheet of A4 when you're already carrying ten oversized dictionaries? (Lame expression but I honestly dunno how else to express myself. Told you's I suck at English. )

But no, he let it out then. Afterward, he's back to his old happy-go-lucky self.

Regarding Catherine Bloom, I've always seen her as a very aggressive woman compared to the average. But getting all Chuck Norris on someone because of something so trivial is also crazy in my book. I never expected her to behave like that, either.

I put a lot of effort writing this. So in all honesty, I'd feel bad if one or all three of you went: TLDR on this. But despite that, I wouldn't be surprised if any of you guys did lol so please don't feel like you're obliged to read this. I only felt confident writing it this long because it's a discussion thread anyway.

Considering none of us have full knowledge of what had happened to Duo and especially Wufei since they met on Mars, I really don't see how one can be surprised they'd argue like children or that Wufei became more argumentative. People change and so do relationships. Just because they didn't act a certain way towards each other in GW, EW and the mangas doesn't the dynamic of their relationship couldn't change over 20 years later.

Again, I go back to the possibility that Sally PO died and it had profound effect on him. We've seen the deaths of people greatly affect him in the series and mangas before.

As for Duo, I read an essay on him once that made a compelling argument on how he masked his sorrow with smiles for much of the series and EW.

He was 15, so of course there would be moments where he cracked but he'd quickly return to his defense mechanism of smiling through everything. As an adult, it didn't need to be one event that caused him to break down. Maturity and self-reflection could cause him to crumble.

Like Wufei, he probably changed. Honestly, to have expected them to remain stagnant is a little naive.

The same applies to Catherine.

[Leave The Pieces]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

...I really don't see how can be surprised they'd argue like children or that Wufei is more argumentative. People change and so do relationships. ...As for Duo, I read an essay on him once that made a compelling argument on how he masked his sorrow with smiles for much of the series and EW. He was 15, so of course... Honestly, to have expected them to remain stagnant is a little naive. The same applies to Catherine.

My answer to this is pretty much what IkuzeMinna said in post #3201.

As for me being a little naive. Well, that remark there somewhat annoys me because to me that sounds like you're judging ME and you're saying that the way I saw these particular characters and envisioned their growth post the animated materials is wrong and that I should change it.

You didn't see me say, "Yes, this surprises me. I think YOU not getting surprised is weird."

Anyway:

@IkuzeMinna I know you said it's just an opinion, but let me say mine! ^_^

Spoiler for Lengthy response to IkuzeMinna's post:

Many times I hear that GW is realistic. I'm sorry but no ...It's safe to say that Gundam Wing lacks any sense of realism. But it does not lack logic.

I dunno if I agree or disagree with you on this one...? But my say on this:

Is Harry Potter realistic?

Witches, wizards, wands, unicorns, dragons--erm in THAT sense, well everyone can and will say NO without a doubt. It's not realistic.

But pure people who will fight selflessly for their friends and love ones (there aren't a lot of them, but they're out there), and "evil" people who will stop at nothing to get what they want (OMG there are HEAPS) are realistic, imo.

So, when you think about it, MOST shows are not realistic if we're talking about the 'elements' and/or their 'state' in the show's universe. ie element: a character with peculiar eyebrows, her state: fifteen year old puppet-master. A person with unusual pair of eyebrows is unrealistic enough, let alone if she's a frail teen who controls Mobile Dolls and takes on a professional Gundam pilot. Heck, the Mobile Dolls and Gundams themselves are unreal! Such weapons are impossible to build, at least with our present technology.

So yeah, it that sense, I'm with you. That goes without saying, Gundam Wing IS unrealistic. The pilots' age, metal-bending abilities, etc., man you named it. Even the parts where you said a person with such background isn't really likely to behave this way or that.

But, when it comes to the characters still, and the twists and how things went down, imo, those things are realistic. The fact that these characters are awesome and yet they're shown to have flaws (I honestly did NOT see Mary Sue's and Gary Stu's here in this anime, so in a way we agree because no matter what TV Tropes say, GW doesn't have stereotypes) is realistic for me. As for how things went down: since Relena is my favourite, I'm gonna cite the Sanq Kingdom arc as an example. I think what she did there is very realistic. Instead of letting Dorothy get to her to plead for help and ask for pity from the world when her kingdom is getting attacked, or letting Noin and the others to fight back to the bitter end, she instead dissolves the kingdom (which, imo, really is the best way to deal with the shiz happening then). So, the kingdom getting dissolved, and its monarch getting used by some sinister government, this monarch's brother getting angry about it and swears on revenge, I think those things are very convincing and realistic.

So yeah, I dunno if I agree with what you're saying here or not. Since you said it 'doesn't lack logic'. I think we have the same point but different way of wording to get it across. But then, I know a certain Gundam series that 'didn't lack logic' either (at least, for me), but man are the characters unrealistic and inaccessible.

I've noticed a tendency for people to want to apply realism to GW. And as I said before, GW and realism don't have anything to do with each other. So why should I apply it?

Despite our difference regarding the use of that word: realism, if I understand the point of the quoted lines above correctly, THIS is my reason too for being surprised about the sudden personality change of the characters. Before any of you guys here say I'm contradicting myself here, because I said the characters are realistic and yet I'm agreeing with this part of IkuzeMinna's post here, the "realism" I was referring to only goes to an extent. And that extent only covers the things that I managed to see in the series. The possibilities of psychological stuff and such, which is outside the series, are not included. But as Kitsoru said, I have to read chapter 8.

If it's good, don't change it.

See, dude, that's the thing. That's where some fans lose to the other fans. Who's to say that the things some fans don't want changed are good? I know I don't want things changed the way some of them already have, like, if they're going to be changed then it must be for the "better". But what is "better"? It's subjective.

As for the remainder of your post, well said.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

My answer to this is pretty much what IkuzeMinna said in post #3201.

As for me being a little naive. Well, that remark there somewhat annoys me because to me that sounds like you're judging ME and you're saying that the way I saw these particular characters and envisioned their growth post the animated materials is wrong and that I should change it.

You didn't see me say, "Yes, this surprises me. I think YOU not getting surprised is weird."

Could you elaborate? Ikuze covered a lot in that post and I don't see anyone part that directly "answers" what you put in bold.

To your second point, I never expressed those sentiments and "naive" doesn't imply them either. To expect the characters to act like they were as 15-year olds and interact with each other at that level is naive in my opinion. I expressed reasons why I feel this way. You can feel differently but that's what healthy debate is for.

I'll reiterate again, without knowing all what the characters have been through, should it really be a shock they act differently after 20 years?

EDIT: I've reread Ikuze's post and truth to be told, I stand by my point even more. I can understand fans being disappointed by how the characters have progressed(or regressed depending on your stance). To me though, taking everything we know about the characters into account(specifically Duo, Wufei and Heero), what Sumisawa has done with them wasn't hard to picture.

[Leave The Pieces]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

Could you elaborate? Ikuze covered a lot in that post and I don't see anyone part that directly "answers" what you put in bold.

EDIT: I've reread Ikuze's post and truth to be told, I stand by my point even more. I can understand fans being disappointed by how the characters have progressed(or regressed depending on your stance) but to me, taking everything we know about the characters into account, what Sumisawa has done with them wasn't hard to picture.

Post #3210, under the spoiler box, second to the last quote and the response to that quote.

Well, that's your opinion and I respect that. The only thing I needed to hear is that you CAN understand my disappointment despite having a different view on things.

To your second point, I never expressed those sentiments and "naive" doesn't imply them either.

I never said that that's what you intentionally implied. I simply thought I should let you know that that is how I'd take that.

To expect the characters to act like they were as 15-year olds and interact with each other at that level is naive in my opinion.

You lost me here. Which part(s) of my post(s) did I explicitly say that I'm expecting them to act exactly like they used to? If it was my use of the word "inconsistent" that made you think so, then let me elaborate on it. By "inconsistent", I'm talking about the direction of the character development's progression. The "going forward" or "levelling up" of the character development. That's what I said I thought was inconsistent. This is just pure opinion: instead of getting better, and better, over time, the character development went backwards. But like I said in my previous post, what is "better" exactly? It's subjective.

So going back to you and your saying of the word, naive. I'm with you, a fan who expects them to still behave as if they're still their past fifteen-year-old selves IS naive. But I don't think it's fair that you should assume that I AM that fan. Because if that's not what you meant by that, then I don't know what is.

I'll reiterate again, without knowing all what the characters have been through, should it really be a shock they act differently after 20 years?

No. I didn't say it SHOULD be a surprise to people. And like I implied previously, I don't find it intriguing at all that some fans are not surprised despite the fact that I am.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

You lost me here. Which part(s) of my post(s) did I explicitly say that I'm expecting them to act exactly like they used to? If it was my use of the word "inconsistent" that made you think so, then let me elaborate on it. By "inconsistent", I'm talking about the direction of the character development's progression. The "going forward" or "levelling up" of the character development. That's what I said I thought was inconsistent. This is just pure opinion: instead of getting better, and better, over time, the character development went backwards. But like I said in my previous post, what is "better" exactly? It's subjective.

So going back to you and your saying of the word, naive. I'm with you, a fan who expects them to still behave as if they're still their past fifteen-year-old selves IS naive. But I don't think it's fair that you should assume that I AM that fan. Because if that's not what you meant by that, then I don't know what is.

I got the impression you and Ikuze might have felt Duo and Wufei would act as they did in the series because of all the allusions you two made to the series and how they're acting now. Part of that was necessary for the discussion but based on the disagreement with their development, that's the only assumption I could make. In light of what you said about about feeling character development has gone backwards though and admitting that conclusion is subjective, I now know you didn't expect that.

With that said, let me ask, what should Sumisawa have done to make you think they developed for the better? Better yet, what did you want to see?

[Leave The Pieces]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

With that said, let me ask, what should Sumisawa have done to make you think they developed for the better?

Touche.

Truth be told, I don't know what I think he should've done specifically to make them "better" (again, this is subjective, the "better" here is based on my standards). All I know is, for me, it sure isn't how the characters are in FT.

EDIT: "Better yet, what did you want to see?" Sorry, did you just put this in? I don't think it was there when I answered.

To answer this:

Well, what I'd like to see is... the plot. I'd like to know what it really is already. I don't really know if this will properly explain what I want but, FT, to me, is more parallel to Gundam SEED than Gundam Wing in terms of the medium it uses to deliver the story. I think this thread right here is the one where I read this from (not word for word but something like this):

When one gets asked to tell the story of GS, this is how he/she would likely to open it: "It's a story about Kira Yamato, a boy who's living a peaceful life in a neutral colony until he gets caught in the middle of the war between two different races of humanbeings all the while being burdenened with the reality that requires him to fight his childhood friend, Athrun Zala... blah blah blah."

But when one gets asked to tell the story of GW, THIS is how he/she would likely to open it: "Technology has evolved and space colonies have been built, blah. But an entity on earth gains great military powers and with this, it seizes the colonies and rules them with an iron fist. Five hot young men (lol sorry, XD) namely Heero, Duo, Trowa, Quatre and Wu Fei are the colonies' only hope to end this tyranny... blah blah blah."

Can anyone else see the difference there? Please don't be sarcastic. Obviously, the lines have NOTHING in common.
So anyway, I always thought that Wing, its plot is the one that "controlled" the characters to deliver the story. Whereas SEED, its characters controlled its plot to deliver the story. Both techniques are good. And no one can say that one is better than the other. This is purely subjective.

So anyway, because FT is GW, I'd like to see it focusing more on the plot than showing the characters being angsty. I think that's what I want to say lol. But FT is doing the latter, imo. Whether that's good or bad, I don't have the right to say. It's just a matter of preference. Again, everything that I said is just my opinion regarding this novel and how its written. If I was too forward, or if I seemed bias or judgmental, I do apologise. But please keep in mind that you asked and I simply answered truthfully and that my answers are simply based on what I want, and it's based on what I want because, well, you did ask. Lol

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces

Touche.

Truth be told, I don't know what I think he should've done specifically to make them "better" (again, this is subjective, the "better" here is based on my standards). All I know is, for me, it sure isn't how the characters are in FT.

Fair enough.

At the very least, as it relates to fans as a whole, FT is generating more legitimate and fun GW discussion than seemingly the past few years combined.

[shadowii]

who said this line?
But Relena, your battle won't be over

[Kitsoru]

Originally Posted by shadowii

who said this line?
But Relena, your battle won't be over

Heero, I would assume. (Though apparently Sumisawa has some issues in indicating who is speaking at a given moment.. but I'm going to assume Heero since that's who she was speaking with.)

[Mareike]

Hi! I'm new to the forum. I just recently found out about FT and GotD, and man, as a long-time fan, I was really ecstatic to know that they're expanding on the story.

Enough 'bout me, though.

I hate to break the currently on-going discussion, but there are a few things I would like to ask. I'm having trouble finding sources for the chapters (as well as following a hundred and fifty-something pages of discussion) so I thought I'd ask...

1. How many chapters have been released for FT and GotD?
2. What is the story in FT so far? ;A;
3. Has any further information been released about Zechs, Noin and their family? All I know right now is that Zechs is with Naina in Mars, while Noin is with Milou... but where? I really hope that they reveal Noin's background soon, too.

:3

[IkuzeMinna]

@Leave The Pieces: Seeing as I possibly confused you, I think I should elaborate on my use of words. I'm pretty sure we mean the same thing though.

First of all, let's clarify what realism is. The definition of 'realism', according to the Free Online Dictionary, is as follows:

realism

1. An inclination toward literal truth and pragmatism.

2. The representation in art or literature of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are, without idealization or presentation in abstract form.

3. Philosophy
a. The scholastic doctrine, opposed to nominalism, that universals exist independently of their being thought.

b. The modern philosophical doctrine, opposed to idealism, that physical objects exist independently of their being perceived.

In other words, if a show or book is to be called realistic, it would presuppose the possibility for it to happen in real life. Which, yes, makes Gundam Wing and a lot of other series unrealistic. Especially those of the fantasy genre, like Harry Potter.

So when I say that "Gundam Wing lacks any sense of realism, but does not lack logic", I basically mean that while pretty much nothing in it can happen in real life, it still makes sense.

What do I mean by that? Easy. For example, I cannot see a real 15-year-old boy being a trained assassin, pilot, computer hacker, master swordsman, horseman, dancer, explosives expert and whatever else Heero is that I can't think of right now. But should such a person exist (theoretically), it would make sense that he could do all the things Heero did (namely successfully fighting a war by himself).

And I believe this extends to all the aspects of the show. Even the actions taken by the characters you call realistic, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with. They're logical, not realistic. To take your example, what would a normal person have done in Relena's position? Probably abandoned everything and gtfo of there. But Relena did not only not back down, she clung to an ideal that was pure suicide in the universe she lived in and somehow managed to gain control of her enemies by doing that. With just words.
If you consider the concept of GW, it didn't seem far-fetched, or to put it more bluntly, it made sense that she could and would do that. Because everyone in the friggin' show is superhuman/badass. xD But if it were to be realistic, by all means, she should've crumbled by the whole pressure. After all, she's only a teenager without full education. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Gundam Wing is ideological, based heavily on politics and told from the angle of extraordinary people. It makes sense that it doesn't focus on its characters' struggles through the war, as other Gundam series do, because the characters' primal role in Wing is not supposed to represent real people but ideals in a war. (I'm not sure if this is the right word, but what I mean is this: Wu Fei-Honor, Relena-Purity, Quatre-Kindness, etc)
This is further proven, I believe, by the fact that the characters don't act their age. They aren't hormonal or whatever. Heck, most people thought Sally was 30 by the way she behaves (myself included). But yeah, that's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

EDIT: I've reread Ikuze's post and truth to be told, I stand by my point even more. I can understand fans being disappointed by how the characters have progressed(or regressed depending on your stance). To me though, taking everything we know about the characters into account (specifically Duo, Wufei and Heero), what Sumisawa has done with them wasn't hard to picture.

Exactly. I'm completely agreeing with you. The tons of fanfics in which similar things happen are proof enough.
All I say is that there are other outcomes I would've preferred (something that is directly linked with my wish for GW to continue to be 'atypical', as I called it). That's the reason I cite all the scenes from the series. To prove that there is room for interpretation, not to harp on stagnation.
To be more clear about it, while there was nothing in the series to make me believe that Duo and Wu Fei would become bosom buddies, there was also nothing to make me believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

With that said, let me ask, what should Sumisawa have done to make you think they developed for the better? Better yet, what did you want to see?

Wu Fei as a PhD and ex-Preventer, teaching at a university, having changed his last name to Long (mind out of the gutter, I mean his wife's clan he married into ) and being the martial arts instructor of a girl named 'Mei Ling', who oh so happens to look a lot like a certain someone and oh so happens to be a pilot for a certain Gundam.
And have Duo become a real priest, not a bounty hunting gold digger with bratty kids. >_> As for the others... I think I spoiled enough of my story in the works already.
Except for Quatre. I don't know what's up with him but you'd think a responsibility freak like him would make sure the Winner family would have an heir to its legacy. He needs a son. Where is he? Quatrine has boobs, so she doesn't count. No omitting his family's chauvinism, please.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

Exactly. I'm completely agreeing with you. The tons of fanfics in which similar things happen are proof enough.
All I say is that there are other outcomes I would've preferred (something that is directly linked with my wish for GW to continue to be 'atypical', as I called it). That's the reason I cite all the scenes from the series. To prove that there is room for interpretation, not to harp on stagnation.
To be more clear about it, while there was nothing in the series to make me believe that Duo and Wu Fei would become bosom buddies, there was also nothing to make me believe otherwise.

That's essentially what this entire debate boils down to for the most part. I disagree with your last sentence but no amount of debate is going to make you feel differently...

Wu Fei as a PhD and ex-Preventer, teaching at a university, having changed his last name to Long (mind out of the gutter, I mean his wife's clan he married into ) and be the martial arts instructor of a girl named 'Mei Ling', who oh so happens to look a lot like a certain someone and oh so happens to be a pilot for a certain Gundam.
And have Duo become a real priest, not a bounty hunting gold digger with bratty kids. >_> As for the others... I think I spoiled enough of my story in the works already.
Except for Quatre. I don't know what's up with him but you'd think a responsibility freak like him would make sure the Winner family would have an heir to its legacy. He needs a son. Where is he? Quatrine has boobs, so she doesn't count. No omitting his family's chauvinism, please.

Fair enough. Those outcomes would have been pretty feel-good.

[IkuzeMinna]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

That's essentially what this entire debate boils down to for the most part. I disagree with your last sentence but no amount of debate is going to make you feel differently...

Aye, I'm a stubborn one. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Mareike

1. How many chapters have been released for FT and GotD?
2. What is the story in FT so far? ;A;
3. Has any further information been released about Zechs, Noin and their family? All I know right now is that Zechs is with Naina in Mars, while Noin is with Milou... but where? I really hope that they reveal Noin's background soon, too.

1. link This should answer everything.

2. Well, the MC-022 story is that Heero was thawed and ordered to kill Relena, Quatrine stole the incomplete suit Prometheus, Heero and Duo Jr. set out to catch her (and Trowa Phobos, too?), they all met in a desert where Snow White and Warlock battled Quatrine's MD Maganacs, Quatrine kissed Trowa P. somewhere in that chapter, Mille and Naina arrived to pick up Quatrine and Prometheus, they all escaped Heero and Duo Jr. somehow and on their (1+2) way back they learned that Wu Fei was fighting enemy suits, namely Epyon and three Virgo IVs. I think Zechs showed up too (?) and to make it a full-blown party Relena somehow ended up in the picture as well.
Yeah... Sorry, that's all I could get from that convoluted mess. If I got anything wrong folks, correct me please.

3. Sorry, no idea. Has Noin been mentioned in the present?

[mirei]

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

3. Sorry, no idea. Has Noin been mentioned in the present?

She's with Relena.

[Leave The Pieces]

@IkuzeMinna

I'll PM you my response to this seeing as it's only the two of us talking about Gundam Wing and realism. Especially cuz my response is quite lengthy.

To be more clear about it, while there was nothing in the series to make me believe that Duo and Wu Fei would become bosom buddies, there was also nothing to make me believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

That's essentially what this entire debate boils down to for the most part. I disagree with your last sentence but no amount of debate is going to make you feel differently.

THESE. Which is why I didn't want to call it a debate in the first place, just a discussion (I like to think there's a difference). Because both sides (or at least my side) never intended to convince the other, or anyone else, otherwise (I'm not saying that you did). I merely stated what I expected and preferred and that they're not exactly ridiculous as I previously explained. It wasn't the case of 'This is how I wanted it to go down, how come you guys don't feel the same when *quote canon, quote canon, quote canon*.'

Wu Fei as a PhD and ex-Preventer, teaching at a university...

Although not exactly what I WANT happening (honestly, I still don't know what I want. All I know is that I know what I don't want when I see it lol.) , if this were the case, I honestly wouldn't be surprised and/or complaining like I did.

One thing, though:

And have Duo become a real priest, not a bounty hunting gold digger with bratty kids.

You know, even if Duo Jr. were confirmed to be Duo and Hilde's biological son (which would normally make me confidently say: "Who the heck is he taking after? Duo and Hilde weren't brats!!!"), I'm not surprised that he's bratty at all (despite the fact that I think a character like him is another stereotype ). Why? Because there's the chance that it's Hilde's death is the reason why he's being this way. Especially if she is his bio-mum.

Even if she isn't, she still took him in and it's highly likely he got attached to her.
If it wasn't her death that makes him behave like this, maybe it's because no one really knows where he came from? Wasn't he just found by Hilde somewhere? Lord knows what the place he was from is like. It's also that possibility that it was his past environment that influenced his behaviour.

Also, I believe I came up with these theories because I saw some hints. Or maybe I was just seeing things...? Cuz Father Maxwell does apologise to Po's daughter (I'll call her Po's daughter cuz I'm not that bright, I get confused with all these Katherine's) about Duo Jr.'s manners and explain that the kid lost his 'mother' and he had to raise the boy by himself.

But yeah, fingers crossed it's one of these theories. Otherwise, I'll go back to criticising Sumizawa and his stereotype-writing.