Madoka Magica - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Lemon Ice]

Did anyone else notice Kyubey slowly materializing during the scene in Timeline-1 when Homura cries over Madoka's body?

[Crontica]

Madoka's Endgame Spreadsheet.

[taofd]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Madoka's Endgame Spreadsheet.

Morning Rescue. Oh god, Morning Rescue please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv8tqS_h9Ew

[NaweG]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Madoka's Endgame Spreadsheet.

Which should make a great start toward the VN I hope will eventually come from this show

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by NaweG

Which should make a great start toward the VN I hope will eventually come from this show

It shall surpass Schooldays.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Madoka's Endgame Spreadsheet.

Nicely put together!

Very funny, but also good for speculations.

I'd like almost all (if not all) of the "good" ends, but I have to admit that Witch's End is fascinating.

Very NGE-esque if executed well.

[azanimefan]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

If lack of entropy defying MG power is the only thing preventing Kyubey to time travel... then I guess he can time travel.
I doubt if Charlote and all his previous victims would have a lower combined MG energy than Homura alone can generate.

no no... You don't understand.

For entropy to exist, time must be linear and inviolable. In short, by the laws of science, time travel cannot be possible. Homura's time travel is the result of the "magic" of a magical girl wish granting... not kuybey space tech. Kuybey told madoka and then sayaka, that he doesn't know how the magic will form in the girls. his race barely understands magic. they are using the magic without comprehension of all the ways it works.

Kuybey made an educated guess of where homura is from. Just because he can't travel time, doesn't mean he can't theorize. you can't travel time either and you theorized about it just fine.

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

You're assuming no new elements that might change the game would be introduced in the next episode, but you really don't know that. I don't think is inevitable because nothing is set in stone yet.

But this is becoming circular. Let's just agree to disagree if you want.

I guess you can say it's an assumption, but it's also a hope. Imagine, after we have been shown all those trials, then all of a sudden we are presented a whole new way to solve the problem, such as Mentar's suggested possibility of contracting the mysterious cat? As I told him, that would suck. It will bring a good ending out of nowhere, and I certainly hope Urobuchi is better than that. Now, if he can somehow create a good ending under the current circumstances, I will definitely give it up for him, even though that is not what I'm expecting.

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

True, but knowing how someone moves means being able to make counter-measures/ exploit their movement.

Kyuuby has an end goal in sight and he wouldn't just grant/help a person obtain a power he thought might jeopardize his plan. He likely has Homura's entire time loop figured out and believes that anything she does on her own is futile.

Humans can't imitate nature, but by knowing it's properties and characteristics we can direct the elements to produce energy for us. This is what I think Kyubey has in store for Homura and her time travel power.

All goes back to what I said about Homura being in a hamster wheel :P

i think the original timeline kyubie had the same base goal as homura. to try again with madoka.
madoka was already dead. all of her potential wasted. as we saw in the last loop, the energy gained from madoka alone was enough to meet his quota.
that potential is still on the table as long as madoka is still alive.
so yes, homura is doing exactly what kyubie wants.

the only real problem, from his perspective, is that homura can keep on hitting the reset button. i'm not sure thats something he would've wanted or predicted. the way her wish was worded seemed like it was supposed to be a one shot deal. just one more chance.

[Child_of_Sierra]

@kamyu: Yes, I agree that on the first timeline Kyubey wanted Homura's wish to give him another shot at harvesting Madoka.


But I assume that even the reset property of Homura was predicted by Kyubey. Allowing Kyubey to harvest the energy from each cycle. Sometimes this energy is greater, during times Madoka turns into a witch, and other times just average - depending on how many of the other 3 girls turn.

Within the short time span that Homura can work to change the future Kyubey may have figured that all permutations of her actions will lead to a reset.

The wild card here is Madoka whom Kyubey did not expect to slowly "be aware" of the cycle. Her actions may be what tips the scale to an eventual solution. (Making her worthy of being the titular character)

This theory may or may not turn out right but it was fun to theorycraft.

Originally Posted by azanimefan

no no... You don't understand.

For entropy to exist, time must be linear and inviolable. In short, by the laws of science, time travel cannot be possible. Homura's time travel is the result of the "magic" of a magical girl wish granting... not kuybey space tech. Kuybey told madoka and then sayaka, that he doesn't know how the magic will form in the girls. his race barely understands magic. they are using the magic without comprehension of all the ways it works.

Kuybey made an educated guess of where homura is from. Just because he can't travel time, doesn't mean he can't theorize. you can't travel time either and you theorized about it just fine.

I simply presented a counter argument to what the original responder posted here. My post after that one addressed that Kyubey only did need to know how something works to work it in his plans. Finally, Kyubey only reveals information when he deems it necessary so what he can do and the scope of his abilities is not entirely known.

[zRyuu]

Originally Posted by kamyu

i think the original timeline kyubie had the same base goal as homura. to try again with madoka.
madoka was already dead. all of her potential wasted. as we saw in the last loop, the energy gained from madoka alone was enough to meet his quota.
that potential is still on the table as long as madoka is still alive.
so yes, homura is doing exactly what kyubie wants.

the only real problem, from his perspective, is that homura can keep on hitting the reset button. i'm not sure thats something he would've wanted or predicted. the way her wish was worded seemed like it was supposed to be a one shot deal. just one more chance.

It's a possibility, but in that case QB really made a big mistake because Homura is giving him problems now. I don't think this is what he wanted. I also doubt that QB has any control over the special abilities each Puella Magi gets. We know that wishes are related to the special abilities each character gets; for instance, Sayaka and her healing ability. Homura got a very unique ability to make her wish come true, time travel, and I doubt QB had any control of this. Or I don't think it even mattered to him. Remember when Madoka asked Homura to kill her before she turned into a witch? She knew that Homura was able to time travel. Why did she ask that then? And why did Homura do it? Explanation: it's the popular view on time travel, Homura is moving to another "world", "dimension", "kakera"(or however they called it in Higurashi/Umineko) everytime she resets. Therefore, the QB that got Homura her wish granted could careless about the other worlds where Homura goes, his world is fine thanks to Madoka's magical energy, same situation for the other QBs in the timelines we were shown.

About Madoka's power:
-There might be a couple of reasons why Madoka wasn't strong enough to kill WN in the previous timelines. She was a Puella Magi from the beginning and she was sharing the GS with pretty much every1 else that was a Puella Magi on her timeline, Mami and Homura at the very least. Because of that, her power was limited by the time the WN came. In the 4th timeline she became a Puella Magi in the last minute and 1hitkoed the WN, she didn't waste any magical power before.. so yep, but we still know it was very hard.
-First timeline, she died, only Mami and her. Shared GS with Mami.
-Second timeline, turned into a witch right away, we have an extra Puella Magi this time, Homura. Possibly, less GS for her.
-Third timeline, same as second, but did better.
-Forth timeline, turned into a Puella Magi in the last minute. Had ALL her magical energy for WN. 1hitkoed her.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by taofd

Morning Rescue. Oh god, Morning Rescue please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv8tqS_h9Ew

Yes, throwing my hat in with Morning Rescue end. That would be perfect...

[Dawnbringerz]

Originally Posted by kamyu

i think the original timeline kyubie had the same base goal as homura. to try again with madoka.
madoka was already dead. all of her potential wasted. as we saw in the last loop, the energy gained from madoka alone was enough to meet his quota.
that potential is still on the table as long as madoka is still alive.
so yes, homura is doing exactly what kyubie wants.

Not exactly.

QB reacted to Homura's word of "I wish that you live on rather than saving me" and appeared, but instead Homura made a contract with "I want to redo my meeting with Kaname-san"

Very big difference.

QB just want Homura to wish for Madoka's revival and get his energy quota, but he got a time traveling MG that poses a threat to his plan instead. I still believe that QB is just a machine/instrument, so he can't turn down Homura's wish, even if it's not exactly what he wanted.



btw, ep11 this Thursday is canceled. Seems like we have to wait another week for the confirmation on theories...

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Dawnbringerz

QB just want Homura to wish for Madoka's revival and get his energy quota, but he got a time traveling MG that poses a threat to his plan instead.

At that point (when she made the wish) she poses no threat since she has no intentions on stopping his plan

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

Originally Posted by MaiNoKen

Me too . I want my Homu Homu X Madoka happy end.

Anyway I feel that cat is actually QB (after a happy conclusion of WN ).

i agree with this. there'd be no more yuri if homura turns into a cat.

LOL.

[kaigan]

Originally Posted by taofd

When you watch, pay attention to whenever a wind chime plays or when you see water droplets. I'm currently riding on the theory that the water droplets represent convergent timelines.


edit: I don't actually think we're watching a contiguous timeline.

i'm currently revisiting the scene of interest. are there any other instances aside from ep 10? if this is entirely unique in ep 10 i would safely assume that the sound by the water droplets is for melodramatic purposes alone either to emphasize homu-chan's tears or the mild rain shower or the unwritten bond between homu and madoka (ie. promise of a lifetime, pardon for using a naruto term). the scene was focused on homu's reflection on the water surface directly below her. the "chime" coincides with the droplets hitting the surface.

however, i find it plausible that we're indeed not watching a contiguous timeline. maybe we are even misdirected on purpose by the show. but considering the recent delay, i think there's still more time to formulate and test our speculations =)

[Misaka of Misaka]

I am not willing to allow QB to take part in a happy end.
(even if he turns into the black cat)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Misaka of Misaka

I am not willing to allow QB to take part in a happy end.
(even if he turns into the black cat)

That isn't technically possible. QB is in the business of generating suffering, so happiness is counter to his goals in every way. He doesn't even want to BE on Earth anyway. Why would he be in a happy ending when his home is elsewhere?

[Shadow5YA]

It's impossible for Kyubey because he can't feel "happy".

[taofd]

Originally Posted by kaigan

i'm currently revisiting the scene of interest. are there any other instances aside from ep 10? if this is entirely unique in ep 10 i would safely assume that the sound by the water droplets is for melodramatic purposes alone either to emphasize homu-chan's tears or the mild rain shower or the unwritten bond between homu and madoka (ie. promise of a lifetime, pardon for using a naruto term). the scene was focused on homu's reflection on the water surface directly below her. the "chime" coincides with the droplets hitting the surface.

however, i find it plausible that we're indeed not watching a contiguous timeline. maybe we are even misdirected on purpose by the show. but considering the recent delay, i think there's still more time to formulate and test our speculations =)

They are not regular droplets in episode 10. The ripples are black, and not situated on the perspective plane. They would have to be slanted if they were droplets in the real world, but they are not o_O.

Also it happens at arguably one of the most important lines in the series? Coincidence? I think not...

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

It's impossible for Kyubey because he can't feel "happy".

QB may not be able to "feel" the euphoric sensation associated with happiness, but he may be able to intellectually recognise contentedness. Just because a being isn't able to "feel" emotions, doesn't mean it isn't cognisant of convenience or success.