2013-03-29, 02:00 | Link #1 |
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Nanoha A's Movie and TV Comparison Thread
As the title of this thread suggests, the purpose here is to allow discussion which compares the content between the Nanoha A's movie and the TV series of the same name which it was adapted from.
As already shown in the Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's Discussion Thread (spoilers) thread, such discussion can become heated at times, but please try to keep a cool head and calmly discuss the differences (both good and bad) between the two formats. If things become too heated, warnings and/or infractions will be issued and posts will be deleted. Have fun! |
2013-03-29, 07:43 | Link #2 |
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I think the thing about this movie is that it's very much a Love It or Hate It kind of movie.
yes, this seems to be the only corner of the internet that has Nanoha fans that hate it, but, as Keroko has pointed out in the movie thread... Fans who didn't like it won't speak up because they'll get flamed, trolled and outright banned if they do. This is the only forum that allows for people to be critical of Fate without being banned for it. The only things that are universally liked by everyone is the visuals, the fight scene against the core of the book of darkness, Reinforce showing up earlier and her device NachtWal. The only thing that we all agree on that was done badly was the first action sequence, though we disagree on the why to that. Other than that, you pretty much either loved the movie or hated it. If you loved the movie, as Demi., Triple_R and others have pointed out, time and time again, the friendship bonding between Nanoha and Fate was nice, Fate having more screen time was also nice and the visuals were outstanding. However, if you didn't like the movie, you found that Yuuno basically being written out, Chrono and Lindy not getting any closure, the bland action sequences, the bland music, the Wolkenritter having to grab both the Conflict AND Idiot Balls to make the plot work to be extremely horrible, as I have commented on for nearly 40 pages in the movie thread. The movie could have been a lot better than it was, the problem is, we're now disagreeing on what can be done to fix the movie's problems. Some of you (those who love the movie) don't see where the problems are and some of us (those who hated the movie) probably see too many problems that may or may not be there. The problem with resolving this comes down to bias, as some will use their bias too strongly to say that you can't change certain things because it would make the movie bad for them while others say that the movie was already bad for them, why not change it to make it better for more people over-all?
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Last edited by Nanya01; 2013-03-29 at 08:14. |
2013-03-29, 08:00 | Link #4 |
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Actually, i'd like to think that we HAVE been making some progress.
Been VERY slow, but there's been some. Hell, I've been the most vocal (as you pointed out) in how much I disliked the movie, and I still showed that there were things I liked about it and I pointed out that, despite the NanoFate fluff I didn't like, I would have kept some of it in the movie. You, on the other hand, have been willing to admit that some of that NanoFate stuff could have and probably should have been trimmed down and removed. I think it's slow, but we're making some progress. And by slow, it feels like we're trying to pull teeth that don't want to come out.
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2013-03-29, 08:49 | Link #5 |
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I don't see much progress, Nanya, when people favoring your position on the movie (or something close to it) refuses to acknowledge your own biases, and act like only the Fate and NanoFate fans (or "fanatics", as Kaijo tried to paint us) are biased.
We can talk about progress when people who want substantially less Fate and/or NanoFate moments in the movie start admitting to their own biases.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-03-29 at 09:10. |
2013-03-29, 09:33 | Link #7 |
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It's amazing how this has spun off into its own thread now
And hey, better be careful throwing that "everyone agrees on", because I didn't find the first fight scene bad at all. Yeah, it was short and I would've loved it to be longer, but other then that it had nothing wrong with it. It was still great. I don't know what you mean by bland music, because the Spanish guitar is pretty awesome. When my friend went through it quickly to check times, he could still hear it - even with the sound muted. It kind of sticks in your head pretty well
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2013-03-29, 10:54 | Link #8 | ||||||||
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But let's be clear: out of all the characters, Fate lost the least in the transition to the movie. Quote:
Let me be clear about this as well: I do like the NanoFate dynamic. I like their friendship. I like Yuuno, and I like his relationship with Nanoha (and would like to see more of his relationship with Fate as well). There are a lot of characters I like. But I am willing to take the axe to any of them, to give what is *needed*. Needs outweigh wants to me, plain and simple. And going into the future, Fate and NanoFate will continue to get scenes and development. This was about the only time for Lindy, Chrono, Hayate, and the Wolks. I'm pretty much betting that none of them will receive *any* real development in the future. They are all side characters who won't get jack shit from here on. Quote:
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We get that it is good for Fate and the NanoFate relationship. We really do. I don't know how many times I have to say this for it to get through to you. But you're being subjective about it, which is understandable, while we are trying to be objective. Quote:
And realize that none of the people you are arguing with, think it is a "bad" movie. Well, maybe Nanya, heh. I'm one of the lower ones, and I think it is just average (even though a 5 should be average, thus I went with 6). So you're upset with people who still rated it highly, and thus still found good within in. |
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2013-03-29, 11:56 | Link #9 |
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Fate wasn't important to the Book of Darkness Incident. She honestly had as much of a role to play as Yuuno; for the both of them, their only stake in the conflict was that it had hurt Nanoha and threatened her planet.
Chrono and Lindy were more important for the Book incident, since they had suffered a very personal loss to it already, and they are also official members of the organization whose very job is to neutralize such things. Chrono and Lindy should have gotten more screentime and development than any other hero but Nanoha, whose planet is at stake and whose name is on the title. And who didn't get devloped in the previous movie. |
2013-03-29, 19:25 | Link #10 | ||||||||||||||
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_________ Nanoha has always initiated handholding before with Fate feeling reassured. At the beginning of the movie, Fate held out her hand and waited for Nanoha to take it- probably thinking she’d just shake or something like that- but Nanoha grabs on with both hands and gets all intimate because that's Nanoha for you. Fate was always afraid of initiating intimate affection. That’s why Nanoha looks so surprised when Fate does finally grab her hand. While Fate was trapped in that dream world and she realized there Nanoha and her family need her- she was told by her big sister even. It was something she was unsure of before- “I was useless in the end”- but trapped with this fake family, she realizes no, my real one needs me more, I need to get out of here and help Nanoha. And she does! She saves Nanoha, just like she promised she would in the last movie- “next time, I’ll save you”. And she’s finally able to move on from that place where she feels useless and trapped with the ghost of her mother. She has confidence in herself, she can move forward, and now she’s comfortable taking Nanoha’s hand, in comforting Nanoha, instead of always waiting for Nanoha to take her hand, instead of feeling unworthy of her. The transition of events in moving form~ Quote:
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Really though, Fate had a ton of screen time in the series, it's not like they're going to cut her to side character status simply because she's not directly linked to the incident. And believe it or not, Fate still had the most emotional baggage in the entire cast, even after the first season. That's how much worse her circumstances were compared to everyone else. And it's what we'll never agree on since for me: Character exposition > Plot. I feel like I'm talking into a black hole here.
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Last edited by Demi.; 2013-03-29 at 20:24. |
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2013-03-31, 21:02 | Link #11 | |
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2013-03-31, 21:08 | Link #12 | |
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This is a lot more debatable than some people seem to think it is.
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2013-03-31, 21:12 | Link #14 | |
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From my perspective, some people are too willing to sacrifice very important characterization for marginal plot improvement.
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2013-03-31, 21:16 | Link #15 | |
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Granted, we never had Chrono or Lindy get to address their past completely.
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2013-03-31, 21:22 | Link #16 |
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It really depends. Surely a movie that fails to do shit in one area will be shit, but diffrent stories put different emphasis. World building, builds the story tall, in that the world is larger, the scope is more epic, and opens up new avenues of discovery. Character building, builds the story horizontally, in which various aspects are given depth and interest.
For example, The Place Promised in Our Early Days does very little to build upwards. We don't really learn much about the setting even if it's interesting nor do we really gain any progress on the grand scheme of things; it's just a backdrop so we can explore the characters' emotions in that particular context which really defines the movie. It's a highly directed slice of the reality we are being exposed to, and that is where all the weight comes from. On the other end, we have the Ghost in the Shell anime. While the characters are really cool, they're really not that deep and it's more of a focus towards societal issues that was masterfully imagined into the futuristic society that was presented. You're not really left thinking about the characters' emotions and thoughts that much, but how such a society behaves and interacts on a large scale, with key incidents in the world being the main focus of the plot. The Nanoha movie picked a very narrow scope of horizontal development at the expense of nearly all vertical development by foregoing most of the intrigue around the Book of Darkness and past incidents, especially around the Haralown family. It certainly gives a very interesting focus on the few that it did focus on, though ultimately Nanoha is a character driven franchise-- indeed, many of the complaints lodged are that certain characters were just left out in the dark.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2013-03-31 at 21:32. Reason: Yes, I confused the two |
2013-03-31, 21:22 | Link #17 | |
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This is why, I would argue, the key is to make sure that your major characters aren't the ones to suffer, since they're the ones that have to carry your film and maintain interest in the narrative. The major characters here are Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, Reinforce, and the Wolkenritter. Take care of them first, and then do what you can for the supporting cast characters. And sure enough, this movie did justice amongst the major characters (some issues with the Wolkenritter's tendency towards violent solutions notwithstanding, in fairness).
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2013-03-31, 21:28 | Link #18 |
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Problem is, as has been stated, is that the movie gave Fate more scenes than was absolutely needed.
Hell, even Nanoha hasn't gotten any development from the movies yet. Really, even if you're a Fate fan, you should admit that Chrono and/or Lindy should have had closure with the Book of Darkness.
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2013-03-31, 21:31 | Link #19 | |
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