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Old 2004-08-11, 12:05   Link #21
MrMonkey
Meeeeeeee!!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford, UK
Yeah Dawn of War is awesome, I've been playing the beta and it does actually feel like "warhammer" if you know what I mean. They captured the atmosphere of the tabletop game well.

As for my anticipations, of the top of my head:

Fable
Jade Empire
KOTOR 2
The Movies
Evil Genius
Halo 2
GTA: San Andreas (though I sold my PS2 last month (hardly played it) but I have no problems waiting the extra months for the xbox or pc version)

And Dawn of War of course
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Old 2004-08-11, 12:26   Link #22
Link
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Hmm.... Mine would be these:

Legend of Zelda
Knights of the Old Republic II
Halo 2
Fable
Final Fantasy XII

Maybe some more I forgot...
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Old 2004-08-11, 12:38   Link #23
KeithCourage
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You have the beta...T_T...i'm so jealous... Sept 20th is SO far away...I know you have an NDA...but anything you can say is good...it just looks like everything you could want out of a 40k game.
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Old 2004-08-11, 12:49   Link #24
Kanna
The Triad
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In front of my MHD player
1) HALF LIFE 2
2) Halo 2
3) Fable
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:09   Link #25
Entropy
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithCourage
You have the beta...T_T...i'm so jealous... Sept 20th is SO far away...I know you have an NDA...but anything you can say is good...it just looks like everything you could want out of a 40k game.
I have the beta too...

Btw,the NDA is off,we can talk about the game until the cows come home,but no pics and videos plz :X
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:22   Link #26
KeithCourage
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Yeah? Nice...so how is...Everything? So many questions...

I have many requests, fill out what you can.

A) race overviews? units? what are costs? Tech trees?

B) Balancing...cheap strategies in this game, what have they become?

c) Resources - Builders, times, occupying a "strategic point", how many are there on a map

D) anything else cool...will post if I can think of other stuff
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:23   Link #27
7thMethuselah
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Antwerp area, Belgium, Europa
Age: 47
World of Warcraft : I love RPG (actually I'm addicted to them)

Half-Life II : No better way to work of some stress after a day at the office than shootng stuff up with oversized alien weapons "Die boss, die ...!!! " (oops, i got carried away there )
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:48   Link #28
Entropy
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithCourage
Yeah? Nice...so how is...Everything? So many questions...

I have many requests, fill out what you can.

A) race overviews? units? what are costs? Tech trees?

B) Balancing...cheap strategies in this game, what have they become?

c) Resources - Builders, times, occupying a "strategic point", how many are there on a map

D) anything else cool...will post if I can think of other stuff
Ho boy,this is gonna be a long one...

A.As you already know,four races:Eldar,Space Marines,Chaos,and Orks.Costs are in both Requisition(which you earn from capturing Strategic points,Critical locations,and relics),and power(power plants and thermal power planets).Tech trees are similiar to your standard RTS.There are tiers(you start at tier one and you can upgrade all the way to tier 3 by upgrading from the HQ),which determine what units and upgrades can be built or researched.Tier one goes you basic units and few upgrades,Tier two gives you heavy weapons upgrades for your squads,many more research options,and the ability to build your first vehicles/Daemons.Tier 3 units allow you access to all vehicles,even more upgrades,and several of the more race specific items such as the Orbital relay for the Space Marines which allows for deep striking units.Capturing a relic at tier three also allows you to build "relic" units at tier three such as Avatars,Squiggoths,Obliterators,Terminators,Land Raiders,Bloodthirsters,and more.

Note:The standard tier 1-3 system is only for Space Marines and Chaos.Orks only have 2 tiers of technology.Eldar have no tiers of technology.Orks and Eldar have more race specific requirements for the most part.

B.Beta is not balanced yet.Four races are hard to balance you know.There are bugs such as the Farseer Eldritch storm bug that allows an Eldar player to use Eldritch storm to devastating effect.Eldar is currently considered overpowered,and orks are generally considered underpowered.Game is not yet an infantry game yet,too many vehicles for now.However,a new patch,the fourth one in about a month,comes next week.Besides,imbalances and bugs are expected in a beta.We beta testers are working as hard as we can at this,and hopefully we'll manage to get the game workable by release.Along with ample support(maybe) from THQ,we'll get a balanced game soon enough.

C.There are builders for each of the Four races,which function in surprisingly fluffy ways.Space Marines get Servitors that can build structures that are dropped down from orbit.Chaos gets the creepy sounding Heretic that summons structures out of the ground.Eldar get bone-singers that shape thier wraithbone in place.Orks get Gretchins(grots),that build structures in a way similiar to Servitors,but can be reinforced for faster building times.For Free.Number of strategic points can vary,but generally I would say there are about a dozen or so per map.More importantly though there are critical locations and relics,which are crucial game winning locations.Occupying a strategic point is similiar to capturing a victory location in Ground Control 2.One infantry(and only infantry,vehicles cannot capture strategic points)squad can be sent to capture the point.Squads capturing strategic points cannot move or fire while taking a strategic point.Combined with the fact that capturing a strategic point takes time,it's best to cover your squads from enemy fire.Relics and Critical locations are also capturable,though they tend to take a longer time to capture.Strategic points can have listening posts built in them,which allows for double the resource flow as well as prevents the enemy from sending infilitrated(essentially invisable)units to capture them.LPs can also be upgraded for an even higher resource flow,as well as giving them defensive weapons and upping thier hitpoints.Listening points can only be built on strategic points and relics.

D.This game is very cool! The sides are surprising fluffy,and Relic managed to implement a surprising amount of stuff from fluff in the races.Space Marines sound righteous and proud,Chaos depraved and monstrous,Orks have bar none the best accents in the game and possibly the genre too with thier simply hilarious British cockney voices saying the funniest things(an example is when you click on an ork and he says "Sod off!" or when he moves and he says "Orks Orks Orks Orks" like a baseball tune.Eldar sound...androgynous,but all are good,though some can be a little annoying.Combat animations are undisputedly the best in the genre.Melee combat is extremely fun to watch as units kick,punch,and knock each other to submission.Some units like the uber units(Avatar,Bloodthirster,and Squiggoth)have finishing moves that kill enemies in a cinematic fashion,and you can never get tired of a dreadnought impaling a hapless enemy with it power claw in a huge gush of blood and than tossing him aside.You really have to see it to believe it .

That's all for now.
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Old 2004-08-11, 15:12   Link #29
KeithCourage
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Race Specific questions if you don't mind (if it's buggin you just say so...i'm just so damn curious and impatient)...

A) Anti Grav tanks - Fire prisms owning the game at all? If vehicles are big, i assume eldar would have a good time.

B) Avatar? Looks SO cool...abilities?

C) Bloodthirster? Best melee unit in tabletop...how does he stand up in dow?

D) Terminators...I've always loved terminators. They got nerfed a few years ago in tabletop to 2+ on D6 from 3+ on 2D6...so are they super powerful? Assault cannon?

E) How do you suppose they'll fix orcs? Dreadful range power in both tabletop and dow it seems.

And Morale...I love the concept, it's warhammer, you gotta have morale...how exactly does it work? Does it recharge over time or something? Go up when you score kills? get more units? I know it goes down when units die and it's affected by terror weapons like flamethrowers, sniper etc.

Aight, i'll try not to harass you anymore
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Old 2004-08-11, 16:29   Link #30
JubeiYamazaki
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithCourage
Race Specific questions if you don't mind (if it's buggin you just say so...i'm just so damn curious and impatient)...

A) Anti Grav tanks - Fire prisms owning the game at all? If vehicles are big, i assume eldar would have a good time.

B) Avatar? Looks SO cool...abilities?

C) Bloodthirster? Best melee unit in tabletop...how does he stand up in dow?

D) Terminators...I've always loved terminators. They got nerfed a few years ago in tabletop to 2+ on D6 from 3+ on 2D6...so are they super powerful? Assault cannon?

E) How do you suppose they'll fix orcs? Dreadful range power in both tabletop and dow it seems.

And Morale...I love the concept, it's warhammer, you gotta have morale...how exactly does it work? Does it recharge over time or something? Go up when you score kills? get more units? I know it goes down when units die and it's affected by terror weapons like flamethrowers, sniper etc.

Aight, i'll try not to harass you anymore

A.) My friend played the Elder, the WraithLord's OWNED, he made 3 and wiped out the computer, they are EXTREMELY powerful, D-Cannon kinda sucks.

B.) Out of all the "super units" The Avatar has the weakest attack, and I think health, he regenerates REALLY fast though.

C.) Bloodthurster is a monster, but seems to lose health when you're idle, but when its killing it seems to stop.

D.) No played Space Marines so I don't know, LOL.

E.) They need bigger mobs.

Morale's there just like in tabletop, but we don't know the physics since we only played through each race once, execpt Space Marines, so we didn't take notice that much. DOW just seems more like a Starcraft mod then an actual game... the fighting and unit production is cool, but I don't know, it just seems stale. I guess when you play tabletop, you kinda get spoiled so any game isn't going to equal to it. The Army Painter/Builder is really cool, you can customize your army, but I wish it had basic MS Paint type depth to it.

Its overall a cool game, but if you've played tabletop WH40k, kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth. And they made the Elder sound like pansies, my friend was pissed.
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Old 2004-08-11, 16:34   Link #31
MrMonkey
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Sorry if I'm not very detailed, I'm uber tired at the moment :|

Well the vehicles are pretty balanced for the most part. Fire Prisms are excellent against enemy dreadnoughts though, from experience :P

Both the avatar and bloodthirster are awesome melee units, once they get in close they basically own anything, of course they have no ranged attacks though.
The main issue with both is that the "fancy" kills they do take time, for example, impaling a ork on the avatar's sword and watching his body slide down it may look awesome, but it takes time, and only hits a single unit giving others time to attack.
The Avatar has the handy ability of preventing nearby friendlies from being broken, which is always good. I can't remember the other abilities off hand right now, but I'll have a look next time I play.

Speaking of unstoppable melee units, I've found that an ork nob squad with a warboss (or big mek) attached will give anything a run for its money, including terminators. It's a shame that the mega-armour upgrade doesn't actually change the nobz appearance though, I have a squad of mega-armoured nobz in a cupboard somewhere, the terminators of the ork world.

I'll let Entropy or someone answer the other questions (sorry :P ) since I'm literally about to pass out, but if they're still here in the morning I'll have another go.

Quick edit for Jubei:

Wraithlords suck at range, 1 or 2 four-man marine squads with rocket laucnhers will drop them easily. The space marine dreads are much more difficult IMO, especially since they come in assault and ranged varieties, though as I said, a fire prism helps there.
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Old 2004-08-11, 17:09   Link #32
Entropy
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 36
Quote:
A) Anti Grav tanks - Fire prisms owning the game at all? If vehicles are big, i assume eldar would have a good time.

B) Avatar? Looks SO cool...abilities?

C) Bloodthirster? Best melee unit in tabletop...how does he stand up in dow?

D) Terminators...I've always loved terminators. They got nerfed a few years ago in tabletop to 2+ on D6 from 3+ on 2D6...so are they super powerful? Assault cannon?

E) How do you suppose they'll fix orcs? Dreadful range power in both tabletop and dow it seems.
A.Oddly enough,that was the case if you massed Fire Prisms.Thing about Fire Prism is that they were made Tank/Artillery hybrids:They had the range of a tank and was accurate as one,but thier gun could scatter infantry like an artillery weapon.I suppose it was intended as a Whirlwind/Predator combo but in reality that meant that the only other counter against them(Anti-tank infantry) was rendered ineffective because the infantry would be tossed around like rag dolls.They were less effective against vehicles,and had less HP,but the fact that you could have ten of them if you had an avatar meant that they could kill the equivalent amount of predators the other guy could could have,and that's a problem indeed.

B.Avatar is,tied with the squiggoth,one of the two toughest units in the game HP wise.Unlike the Bloodthirster he doesn't lose health while in combat,could do the equivalent amount of damage per attack,and attack can add to the unit cap.However unlike the bloodthirster you can't fly with an avatar,and the element of surprise you can get with a bloodthirster is lost with an avatar

C.Bloodthirster,HP wise is slightly less than the avatar(mid 7k health),and can only do the same amount of damage.That,combined with the fact that he looses health while not in combat may seem bad at first,but the Bloodthirster has the advantage of being able to fly short distances,just like the Eldar grav tanks,which means you can easily throw him behind enemy lines .He also has the element of surprise with him because while the avatar and squiggoth have to built right at thier base,the Bloodthirster is built,but you now have to option to posess any single Chaos lord,Chaos Sorceror,AND every Chaos Aspiring champion at your disposal.That means that you can easily sneak a cultist squad with an aspiring champion to the enemy base using infiltrate,and turn the aspiring champion into a bloodthrister there

D.Terminators are very powerful.They aren't "Super units" per se because they're considered lower end relic units(Land Raider is the other Space Marine Relic unit).But you can have multiple squads of them,which makes them very useful.They come in two variations,Terminators and Assault Terminators,with the former having power fists and the ability to get some heavy weapons(assault cannons and something else,I can't remember for some reason) and the latter having Thunder hammers,which can stun an enemy.They're basically the counter to Chaos Oblit squads.

E.The Achilles heel of orks is that they require a lot of WWAAGGGHHH banners to be built before they can have lots of orks.These WWWAGGGHHH banners have guns,as all Ork buildings do,but they're expensive in the early game,you need a lot of them,and they're cost goes up according to how many you already have just like with Listening posts.They fix the WWAAGGGHHH problem and the Ork situation will be much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
A.) My friend played the Elder, the WraithLord's OWNED, he made 3 and wiped out the computer, they are EXTREMELY powerful, D-Cannon kinda sucks.

B.) Out of all the "super units" The Avatar has the weakest attack, and I think health, he regenerates REALLY fast though.

C.) Bloodthurster is a monster, but seems to lose health when you're idle, but when its killing it seems to stop.

D.) No played Space Marines so I don't know, LOL.

E.) They need bigger mobs.
You must have been playing an older build

A.Wraithlords are now the weakest walker unit,with I believe about the same health or slightly less health than a defiler,but without a defiler's artillery capability.They also are higher up in the techtree I believe,because of the new "Mobilize for war" research that Eldar needs to research before they can build wraithlords.Oh,and D cannons do not suck

B.Avatars no longer regenerate.

C.Yes.

D.Question answered already

E.Nah,it's the WWWAAGGGHHH towers.Orks already can have a lot more units than any other race.100 orks vs 20/20 cap means more orks

Quote:
The main issue with both is that the "fancy" kills they do take time, for example, impaling a ork on the avatar's sword and watching his body slide down it may look awesome, but it takes time, and only hits a single unit giving others time to attack.
The Devs have already looked into this problem and they say that ALL animations take about 8 seconds to do.Besides,some Finishing moves often damage more than one unit.
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Old 2004-08-11, 21:17   Link #33
JubeiYamazaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy



You must have been playing an older build

A.Wraithlords are now the weakest walker unit,with I believe about the same health or slightly less health than a defiler,but without a defiler's artillery capability.They also are higher up in the techtree I believe,because of the new "Mobilize for war" research that Eldar needs to research before they can build wraithlords.Oh,and D cannons do not suck

B.Avatars no longer regenerate.

C.Yes.

D.Question answered already

E.Nah,it's the WWWAAGGGHHH towers.Orks already can have a lot more units than any other race.100 orks vs 20/20 cap means more orks



The Devs have already looked into this problem and they say that ALL animations take about 8 seconds to do.Besides,some Finishing moves often damage more than one unit.
Yeah, I must have because ALL that's totally different. And Orks still need more units, they need to be a sea of green.
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Old 2004-08-11, 22:57   Link #34
aFlipGuy
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am i the only one waiting for armored core nexus
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Old 2004-08-11, 23:56   Link #35
Kaka
罪人クロノ
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithCourage
Nice Nice, I'm glad to hear all the interest in SO 3...I am dying waiting the next couple weeks to get my hands on it. Everyone buy it so they'll make more SO games...so they can fix all the little things like the voices and maybe put a lil' more in the story.
yes, they should give us an option to adjust the volume of the voices and the music
it was hard to hearing the voices when bg music is playing at the same time
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Old 2004-08-12, 00:02   Link #36
Entropy
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
Yeah, I must have because ALL that's totally different. And Orks still need more units, they need to be a sea of green.
More orks is always nice
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Old 2004-08-12, 00:14   Link #37
SlugZilla
woofles
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by aFlipGuy
am i the only one waiting for armored core nexus
I have the Japanese one and I stopped playing after a week and a half I think. I've been thinking I should play it more though. I'm a moderate AC fan but the singleplayer felt so shallow in every aspect compared to AC2(never played AC3) and I beat it pretty quickly too. But it comes with another disc of remade levels which will be worth your while. It lets you play the missions from the PSX games from both sides which is awesome. It's still a pretty cool game overall though.
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Old 2004-08-12, 01:35   Link #38
ZhanDVG
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 39
Halo 2, undoubtedly.

All my friends and I ever seem to do is play Halo multiplayer, and I've seen nearly all of the Halo 2 footage, and it looks... positively orgasmic...
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Old 2004-08-12, 02:01   Link #39
Imazul
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhanDVG
Halo 2, undoubtedly.

All my friends and I ever seem to do is play Halo multiplayer, and I've seen nearly all of the Halo 2 footage, and it looks... positively orgasmic...
I really like how Bungee is pulling the
Ilovebees alternate reality publicity, if you dont know about it just do a quick google search or check the halo2 forum.
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Old 2004-08-12, 12:37   Link #40
KeithCourage
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To all you lucky DoW beta testers...Any idea how mod crazy it will be? Just like the tabletop, I would really enjoy updates, even if only small ones...I read up there that there are terminators and assault terminators. Bah...yes, cool and all, but where are my lightning claws! My LIGHTNING CLAWS...surely they were considered. I know Relic is very open with the mod community, but I'm just wondering what feeling comes across when playing the game...think there'll be cool stuff tossed in now and then, there and there? Or do you think even slight tweaks might throw off the precarious balance of four races, should they ever master it.
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