(L) Eureka Seven: Astral Ocean

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by Raincollie

You can't simply state that the show was bad. Well, you can, but my point is that it would be wrong to do so. Whether a show is good or bad is all a matter of opinion, not facts. I agree with most of your arguments, but deciding for other people that it was bad is kind of wrong.

Ehh. You can say whether you individually enjoyed it, and no one will argue that, but there are more "objective" criteria we use to evaluate works of fiction, thus differentiating them in terms of quality. Otherwise, you could say that the most slipshod trainwreck of a fanfiction was just as "good" as the best of the best.

[Raincollie]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

No, bad writing is usually pretty objective.

What I'm trying to say is that different people have different opinions on such things. One of my friends thinks AO is on a couple levels better than PoP. Even if some writer was to write a story which nobody at all would like, save for one person, it won't be "bad writing" as a fact. Everyone may think that it is bad, and they're free to.

[celestialguy]

The only thing that came to mind after watching epi 23/24 was WTF!?!?! Everything was pretty good for the series, the soundtrack, art, animation, characters, etc.... Everything except the plot. Who the hell approved of this terrible plot that doesn't make any sense after the first few episodes???

[Haak]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

This I have to disagree, and it's probably the most aggravating thing about the ending. Sure, the sister's subplot was easy validation of all their actions in AO because of familial love, one of the core themes of AO and the E7 shows, but in doing so bastardized the characterization of Renton and Eureka, and negates everything the first series stood for, that theme of coexistance.
.

What do you mean? There were plenty of bad things about the Scub corals in the original series too and at least Ao made it so that the Scub coral still existed in the new world (I mean I'm pretty he didn't just fall to his death there at the end).

[com_gwp]

Originally Posted by Haak

What do you mean? There were plenty of bad things about the Scub corals in the original series too and at least Ao made it so that the Scub coral still existed in the new world (I mean I'm pretty he didn't just fall to his death there at the end).

That was Ao's own conclusion, while Renton went on a scub-destroying mission and Eureka did absolutely nothing to stand against his decision. It completely went against their characterizations in the first series, where coexistance between scub and humans was the driving theme. Had there been more episodes, perhaps we might've seen how it came to this, but as it stands the sister subplot was easy but poor validation of their actions.

And personally, I hate how Eureka and Renton had to go through so much suffering. They deserved the happy ending from the original.

[Linkark07]

Just watched those two last episodes. What can I say? If I take this as a stand alone anime show then it is ok, quite mediocre, but as part of the Eureka Seven universe I can't accept it. Not at all.

Well, at least the creators were kind enough to tell us that nothing happened in the end. So E7 AO is just... nothing.

Characters weren't interesting, Eureka and Renton didn't get enough screen time. Setting was dull. Villain was lame. Too many episodes that were pointless. Only good points I can point out are the battles, the music and that's all.

My final score: 5/10.
Honorable mention: Biggest disappointment of the year.

[zeroron]

2. It's obvious that Ao is Gonzy. Think about it. Doesn't make any sense, you say? Then it's a perfect fit for this series.[/QUOTE]

gonzy was a full human form coralian sent to watch over eureka so ao couldnt possibly be gonzy

[Kmos]

Well this wasn't what I expected really. I was enjoying the series well into mid-series before they started trying to wrap things up. I'm not going to add to what went wrong as some people have stated it more clearly then I can and with the two breaks and trying to remember the original series I really struggle to remember things. All I can say is when I was watching the last epis was "wha?...wha? seriously?" I don't think I'll be watching this again even when I enjoyed some earlier stuff. The series overall has dropped to a 4/10 enjoyment level. Best to come out of it really is the soundtrack and great Stereopony ED.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Just watched those two last episodes. What can I say? If I take this as a stand alone anime show then it is ok, quite mediocre, but as part of the Eureka Seven universe I can't accept it. Not at all.

Well, at least the creators were kind enough to tell us that nothing happened in the end. So E7 AO is just... nothing.

Characters weren't interesting, Eureka and Renton didn't get enough screen time. Setting was dull. Villain was lame. Too many episodes that were pointless. Only good points I can point out are the battles, the music and that's all.

My final score: 5/10.
Honorable mention: Biggest disappointment of the year.

Really, they actually said that. Can I get a link, please?

Anywho, the last episodes were enjoyable at least for me. This wasn't the sequel I wanted to see, but it was still a fun ride while it lasted. The ending was really sad in a way, as no one most likely remembers Ao. Hopefully, Fleur does, though that's just my bias. We did see her third engine activate at the end so that most likely means something. Wish they could have gone further into what the new world was like, and Ao's interactions.

[pirateking]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

That was Ao's own conclusion, while Renton went on a scub-destroying mission and Eureka did absolutely nothing to stand against his decision. It completely went against their characterizations in the first series, where coexistance between scub and humans was the driving theme. Had there been more episodes, perhaps we might've seen how it came to this, but as it stands the sister subplot was easy but poor validation of their actions.

And personally, I hate how Eureka and Renton had to go through so much suffering. They deserved the happy ending from the original.

Not to mention Renton know full well his actions would led to the eradication of Eureka as well. What happen to his promise to protect Eureka and be together with her forever? Renton is becoming no different from Dewey whom he stood up against in the original series. Renton definitely deserves the punch that Ao intends to give him in the beginning of episode 24.

As for Eureka, she will never object to any decision Renton makes as evident in the original series, she nods to whatever Renton says. Eureka clearly understands Renton's motivation behind his actions and even wanted to aid him in his quest but was denyed by Renton to spare her from bloodshedding her own kin. Eureka desires to have her own child with Renton, moreso than ever after the loss of her daughter. A mother's love can drive her to do anything for Ao, including indirectly manipulating Endo to sacrifice himself to save Ao in episode 13

Ultimately Renton and Eureka are back to square 1 in their own timeline, both have definitely make some bad decisions in their life to achieve their goals, thats what make both of them human, not some typical shonen jump heroes.

I am content that Renton and Eureka are reunited back together as a couple in their world. You know what they say, "3rd times the charm". Renton and Eureka should invest time and effort to create a home that can control trapar levels to a minimum or no trapar, if they decide to go for a 3rd try...

[Freya]

Hmm I honestly don't know the backstory of Eureka Seven but just from this series alone it was alright. Was pretty pissed at Ao for most of Ep 23/24 but I guess he redeemed himself at the end of 24. Ao honestly was annoying throughout most of the series for me.

So would it be fair to say Ao is in the regular timeline now? Where Okinawa is in control of the US Military?

[molitar]

Was disappointing in more ways than one.. Ok if firing the Quartz Canon made reality what he perceived it to be there is no way in hell AO would of wished or thought Pied Piper to be gone so they never existed.

So that was a major plot hole bigger than a black hole. Secondly if that was the case than he could of fired the Quartz Canon and wished it the way he wanted the world to be.

The ending was stupid.. It explained nothing of the world he wanted.. We definitely did not see Scub Coral but we did see a trapar ring around the earth. AO is not the type to wipe out or destroy and existence so what did he wish to change?

This whole series lost any semblance of making sense when Naru went with Truth who had tried to kill AO several times. At that point any semblance of a plot or of understanding anything went out the window. What they do fire the person writing it in the beginning because in the beginning there was a lot of questions but it made some sense than it took a U turn into nonsense land.

[konart]

Originally Posted by Raincollie

You can't simply state that the show was bad. Well, you can, but my point is that it would be wrong to do so. Whether a show is good or bad is all a matter of opinion, not facts. I agree with most of your arguments, but deciding for other people that it was bad is kind of wrong.

Not really. You can't call burned omelette good, even if someone likes it. Objectevly - it's ruined, subjectevly - it suits one's taste.

And I'm not deciding for people - it's simply impossible. Whoever likes the show for some reason - fine with me, this doesn't make the show better or worse anyway

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by konart

Not really. You can't call burn omelette good, even if someone likes it. Objectevly - it's ruined, subjectevly - it suites one's taste.

And I'm not deciding for people - it's simply impossible. Whoever likes the show for some reason - fine with me, this doesn't make the show better or worse anyway

I think Im getting it, so its like if I really really like Kiss X Sis if I think it`s so good that it rivals the work on Kurt Vonnegut, Stephen King, and Issac Asimov, thats just only good `subjectviely` but `objectively` its actually on par with really bad cartoon porn right?

That makes sense to me, I think this is the post that will be the be all end all for the `its not bad/good its just your own taste, so stop bashing/praising a show that I like/hate` non-argument that does not add to the conversation, and lets other posters know that he/her is mad because something they `subjectively` like and think is good is `objectively` bad.

That`s really cool! This way, both people can win. Instead of saying: "well that`s just your opinion" (which gets everyone nowhere) you can say, " well that`s just your SUBJECTIVE opinion which you are entiteld to have." but objectively, X thing is still bad/good. and then people could list why and have a decent discussion instead of being all passively agressively offended and have a passive agressive argument.

Good stuff!

[Master Chibi]

This was not worth the wait.

The INSANE fucking production values were wasted on these last two episodes.

Not one second of the past four 24 episodes ever felt like they were connected to Eureka 7 in any way.

The ending of this series does bastardize the first series, badly.

I felt nothing for any of the characters, the show had no direction whatsoever, or real understanding of itself. The plot reeks of some sub par fan faction I would have gawked at back in 2005 when E7 dropped.

Eureka 7 is easily my favorite anime, and even with its flaws it holds a special place in my heart.

I will never suggest this series to anyone that enjoyed the original, and if anyone comes to this first I will do my damndest to make sure they go with E7.

Absolutely the biggest disappointment in the fucking 15 years I've been watching anime.

And FUCK them for using Rainbow at the end. Manipulative fucking bastards.

Fuck them.

[Azuma Denton]

Disappointed...
This is just another series using Eureka Seven's name...
The pace is horrible... The characterization is solid at the early episode but went bland when nearing end of series... I dont even know what the story is about anymore... Those explanation about Scub Coral crossing dimension and time does not help at all...

[Haak]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

That was Ao's own conclusion, while Renton went on a scub-destroying mission and Eureka did absolutely nothing to stand against his decision. It completely went against their characterizations in the first series, where coexistance between scub and humans was the driving theme. Had there been more episodes, perhaps we might've seen how it came to this, but as it stands the sister subplot was easy but poor validation of their actions.

I think the fact that they previously were all for co-existence in the first place helped us understand how difficult of a decision this was for them, so I don't think it really went against anything. On the contrary, I think it added more depth to their characterizations.

Originally Posted by konart

Not really. You can't call burned omelette good, even if someone likes it. Objectevly - it's ruined, subjectevly - it suits one's taste.

And I'm not deciding for people - it's simply impossible. Whoever likes the show for some reason - fine with me, this doesn't make the show better or worse anyway

And it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by Haak

I think the fact that they previously were all for co-existence in the first place helped us understand how difficult of a decision this was for them, so I don't think it really went against anything. On the contrary, I think it added more depth to their characterizations.

How does it add depth to it when it practically negates what gave them the characterization in the first place?

The contrived crap they came up within the last ten minutes just isn't enough for me to wholeheartedly accept that essentially everything what they went through in the first series is literally just a plot device to justify a plot point in the second.

No, that's degrading your own work at this point. Ugh.

[Daniel Lind]

I think the fact that they previously were all for co-existence in the first place helped us understand how difficult of a decision this was for them, so I don't think it really went against anything. On the contrary, I think it added more depth to their characterizations.

There were fundamental changes to setting and key plot devices. At the risk of violating some unspoken Internet rules it's like a hero of WW2 suddenly discovering Nazis were the good guys all along.

[pirateking]

Originally Posted by Daniel Lind

There were fundamental changes to setting and key plot devices. At the risk of violating some unspoken Internet rules it's like a hero of WW2 suddenly discovering Nazis were the good guys all along.

The lost of Renton's daughter drove him to depression (might explain the front white hair) and with Secrets chasing the Scab Corals around all timelines and universes causing havoc to the world, Renton easily come to the conclusion that the world is better off without Scab Coral.

Its definitely depressing and ironic that the entity that Renton and Eureka risked so much to protect in the original series is the one ruining their happiness to have their offspring. At the same time Renton also lost his optimistic nature to find a way to overcome this trapar obstacle, rather than sending his wife and child to the past or destroying Scab Coral, shouldn't he have approached the military scientists for help?