2013-06-06, 20:35 | Link #7501 |
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I do agree that Kira did what he had to do, and Shinn's rage and vengence was self centered and morally wrong. I mean Shinn didn't seem to care when he killed Auel who was in the same situation as Stella. Why is it ok to kill him but Stella (who remember is an ENEMY) must be protected even at the cost of his own allies?
Edit: Oh I totally agree. In fact Kira should have just let Berlin burn and been on his merry way. All going there did was cause him and his side problems and they gained nothing from it. Shinn and Minerva would have been destroyed, they get to Orb with Freedom and AA intact, and when Djbril comes calling they land Freedom on Yuna's lawn and take Djbril out at beam rifle point, then toss him to Zaft and tell them to get lost. |
2013-06-06, 20:38 | Link #7502 | |
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2013-06-06, 21:36 | Link #7503 |
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I disagree. It's OK for him to kill Auel because he's not Stella. Shinn saw Stella as a substitute for his dead sister because she's really just a frightened child in a teenaged girls body. The other extendeds don't matter to him because he developed that big brother complex with her and not them.
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2013-06-06, 21:40 | Link #7504 |
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Well yes, but that's not a good thing. That just shows how Shinn is extremely biased in his viewpoints and cannot empatheize with people outside of people who either remind him of his own issues or people that praise and tell him he's right.
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2013-06-06, 21:48 | Link #7505 |
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I know it's not a good thing, that's kinda the point. Shinn's a psychologically damaged kid who's not able to think rationally all the time (or even most of the time). This is how Rey and Durandal are able to control him in the last third of the series, because they know this and know how to take advantage of it.
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2013-06-06, 21:58 | Link #7506 |
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Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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That and Shinn knew Stellar personally and knew that she wasn't piloting of her own free will anyway. Shinn however didn't know Auel so obviously he isn't going to care much about'em.
It's like when you go out to eat, you don't care what anyone else is eating you only care about what you and your friends are eating. |
2013-06-06, 22:05 | Link #7507 | |
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Just like how Kira defending Orb, which was under corrupt leadership, allowed Djibri to escape and Logos to kill many more thousands. Had Kira not been there Djribri and Logos would have died at Orb as the Alliance wouldn't have been distracted by someone trying to play God. Shinn thought Neo was still a "Good guy" as Shinn is a kid and Neo did tell him that Stellar was in the Destroy to stop Shinn from accidentally killing Stellar. That and as far as Shinn knows Neo died there anyway as he never shows up again. Funny, the hangar that had the Strike in it had very little guards which Athrun took out in seconds. Had Kira not been there Athrun would have stolen the Strike along with the Aegis. Furthermore the Gundams in Destiny were in an actual military base with tons of soldiers and Mobile Suits nearby. The Druggies only got in because there were traitors that aided in sneaking them into the base and than into the hangar thus bypassing the much larger security completely. |
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2013-06-07, 00:28 | Link #7508 | |||
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Also the proper term for these guys are Extended, while in SEED the druggies were extended, this time there are no drugs (as the instability due to the drugs was obviously recognized as a liability) |
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2013-06-07, 00:57 | Link #7509 |
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Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Funny, Cagalli is only able to get things in order after ZAFT leaves. Thus the point of Cagalli even showing up was pointless as ZAFT and the Feds would have left anyway after killing Djibril as they never intended to conquer ORB anyway - their only reason for going there was to destroy Djibril thus Logos. In fact they didn't even care for ORB anymore at that point until it was leaked that ORB was holding Djibril and that ORB refused to hand over Djibril.
So yes in fact he ended up aiding the current corrupt Orb Government by defending them against ZAFT/Feds who only wanted Djibril. They only invaded because ORB refused to hand him over and guess what? The moment Cagalli takes over she doesn't, even though she knows why ORB was invaded, order Djibril detained and for communications to be opened with ZAFT/Feds to let them know that new management was in place. No, instead she decides to go to war against the Factions that were in the right and thus ended up saving the monster Djibril by giving him an opening, during the fighting, to escape to murder more. Djibril's escape and all that died after ORB is completely on the fault of Kira, Lacus, Cagalli, Athrun, and co. for allowing that monster to go free and their lack of desire to try and end the invasion without fighting. Cagalli's father would be ashamed of them all as not even he would protect a monster like Djibril like they did. I don't care if you're getting sick of it. Deal with it, Kira had a God Complex and felt that he was right in what he did no matter what even when there are clear cases, attacking the Minerva and protecting Djibril, where he was in the wrong. Not at all, Kira defended the known leader of Logos and didn't once try and end the fighting without violence nor did he try and explain the situation at all to ZAFT or the Feds. Instead he went in guns ablazing as he always did in Destiny and figured things would work out because he possibly can't be wrong. Ironically not only was Kira wrong here but he was dead wrong and did nothing to try and fix the situation and in fact his interference lead to more death and destruction. Never once were they shown to have insiders. Thus your comment has no merit, Kira and co. were in the wrong by a large margin by participating in the Battle of Orb which greatly extended the war and caused the death of thousands more and millions/billions in damages. I know what they are so don't lecture me, I'm still going to call them Druggies. Also note that after the battle of ORB Kira opposes the Alliance completely and not once does he go after Logos or Djibril. No, ZAFT is the one that eventually hunts him down and put an end to Logos. Where was Kira during that? Oh right, going off on some crazy unimportant adventure elsewhere as he prepares to murder Durandal. Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2013-06-07 at 01:15. |
2013-06-07, 01:09 | Link #7510 |
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Except Zaft was looking to conquer Orb then as well. The guy in the sub who was the overall fleet commander, says as much, and even after Djbril escapes he still insists they keep attacking, and only when AA blows his sub up, and Talia takes command do they pull out. And they later say that Durandal had been hoping Orb would have fallen then. Shinn himself states he wants to destroy the country.
Durandal (who remember LIES) tells Talia she did the right thing because he still has his image to protect. So no. Letting Zaft press their attack would be foolish for Kira and Cagalli to have done, as it would have left Orb under Zaft control, ending any hope they had of being indenpendent from him. In fact Cagalli does exactly what you suggest. She requests they try to contact Zaft to request a cease fire (they aren't interested apparantly, because again the Zaft CO wants Orb conquered) and she sends guys looking for Djbril. The only thing she doesn't do is surrender to Zaft, because again, that means Orb as a soverign nation is over. |
2013-06-07, 01:26 | Link #7511 | |||
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2013-06-07, 02:36 | Link #7513 | |
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...and moron. |
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2013-06-07, 03:41 | Link #7514 | |
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Last edited by Skye629; 2013-06-07 at 04:09. |
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2013-06-07, 04:54 | Link #7515 |
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Simple, fire white flares in the sky, raise a white flag, and attempt to open communications. No way Talia wouldn't have ordered hostilities stopped to try and figure out what changed with ORB all of a sudden. Course something that simple is too hard for Kira and co. to think of as they were out for blood because they are "right" even when they're wrong.
Yes he did. Fact of the matter is that he defended a corrupt ORB thus prolonging the fighting and taking down many innocent soldiers that were doing the right thing by going after Logos and its supports while Kira did wrong by defending those monsters. Kira also just sat on his rear as Djibril escaped and not once did Kira even consider going after Djibril afterward as he would rather kill Durandal than go after the main threat to all of humanity at that time which was Djibril, who lived due to Kira, and Logos. Tried my rear. What was the first thing Cagalli did when she showed up? Oh right, she fired at ZAFT and the Feds as she went into ORB. Not once did she try and contract them ahead of the time to let them know what she was trying to do. No, instead she attacked them, saved Yuna, and than expected them to believe she was somehow not with the corrupt ORB. Not may, has no merit. Period. There was no Insiders shown thus you cannot say they exist when clearly they didn't. Whose fault was that again? Right, Kira and co's for not explaining the situation and going by a shot first policy than wondering why no one likes them. Hell Athrun was angry at Kira for the longest time because of that policy and wouldn't have even rejoined Kira had Durandal decided not to remove Athrun. Destiny Plan was introduced at that point thus irrelevant. Kira didn't know about it thus he has no justification for his dumb moves in Destiny that only turned out right because the Director wanted a "Kira is always right even when he's wrong" policy. |
2013-06-07, 05:00 | Link #7516 | |
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As a quick look over it seems you ignored some of my points, whatever, lets continue this dance (after you quote which of my comments you were responding to) |
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2013-06-07, 05:07 | Link #7517 |
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I did them in order, quoting is unnecessary.
I don't ignore, I addressed your main points as your minor points were redundant and have no standing when the main points don't as said minor points depend upon the main points not being moot. |
2013-06-07, 05:39 | Link #7518 | ||
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2013-06-07, 06:45 | Link #7519 |
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Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Still doesn't change that Talia has a lot of pull and if they made it known they were surrendering and wanted to talk than the Feds/ZAFT would have listened. That didn't happen as Cagalli's Faction attacked the Feds/ZAFT as soon as they appeared.
False, they were still in power when the Invasion of ORB happened. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The military still obeyed Yuna until Yuna admitted that Cagalli was in fact Cagalli. Please don't try and suggest that those in the military are all moraless monsters that kill for fun. My father was in the Navy and I was in the Army for awhile, many in the military don't want to kill but will do so if it's needed for the greater good. Had ORB not shielded Djibri and opposed them than no one would have even desired to fight ORB. ORB brought the invasion upon itself. Had Cagalli's forces not shown up ORB would have been defeated quickly and Djibri would never have been able to escape. He was only able to escape as ZAFT/Feds had to waste resources against ORB/Cagalli's Renegade Forces/Kira/Athrun/Archangel. If it was just ORB the battle would have ended far differently. That's Cagalli's own fault for not contacting ZAFT/Feds before swooping in and having them shoot at them. Also, Global Channels exist. Talia even tries to use a Global Channel early in the anime to contact Neo as the colony was falling to Earth. Thus Cagalli has no excuse as even in a military operation Global Channels are still open and monitored. No seem to confuse the meaning of may. They had no insiders, not once was a single Insider shown. Cagalli flew in and ORB opposed her until Yuna said she was the real Cagalli. So no, there is no may ad you're wrong to try and say there may have been when we know for a fact based off the anime that there were NO insiders in ORB working with Cagalli during the Battle of Orb. Hell no one in power in ORB even expected to see Cagalli at the battle. Deaf ears? Please. You're just trying to demonize ZAFT/Feds to justify Cagalli and Kira making extremely dumb decisions. Wasn't introduced* than. Typo. Great job with you running with a typo and trying to insult me because you have nothing. Furthermore you aren't one to talk as you've been demonizing the non-Kira side the entire time and have tried to make it seem that Kira was right when he was clearly wrong. No matter how you look at it Kira screwed up a lot in Destiny with his main screw up being letting Djibril go free because he wanted to play God and that he never even bothered to go after Djibril afterward even as Djibril started racking up an even larger kill count. |
2013-06-07, 12:17 | Link #7520 |
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Episode 42 17 minutes. She DID tell them to contact Zaft and request a ceasefire. Zaft for whatever reason, never responded. Probably because the commander in charge (who was NOT Talia at that point) as mentioned wanted Orb taken out.
Plus Kira DOES know about the Destiny Plan at that point. Dacosta found data on it in that colony remember? And he and Lacus are explaining it to the crew of AA before Durandal publically unveils it. So now he has even further proof that Durandal has an agenda and they'll need Orb to oppose him. |
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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