2010-06-29, 20:19 | Link #12161 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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You know what? I think murdering that entire family is completely justified.
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2010-06-29, 20:20 | Link #12162 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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What I think is new or at least relatively new is the idea that Kinzo forces Rudolf to marry Asumu rather than Kyrie and Rudolf's baby swapping is his grandest act of defiance ever. With Kinzo being the father of Asumu's child it does work out well, regardless of whether Asumu is Beatrice-2 or not. The problem is imagining the situation in which Kinzo would be such a father, as this is where the logical chain runs out of hints to step on because we know next to nothing about her. ...wait. Fall fall faaall!!!! What if it's not a fear of vehicles as such, but a fear of falling down like Beatrice-2 did in Rosa's story?
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2010-06-29, 20:22 | Link #12163 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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EDIT: In fact I think Kinzo would leave Kyrie to die I'm not kidding.
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2010-06-29, 20:22 | Link #12165 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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While we can't be certain that Kinzo was involved in saving Kyrie, what else really makes sense? Kyrie clearly can't save herself cause she dodges out of an arranged marriage and has a child out of wedlock. They've also said they'd kill her and I doubt they'd be willing to stop that without getting something in exchange or they wouldn't be willing to kill her in the first place. Rudolph clearly couldn't save her himself or he would have just married Kyrie. The only thing that makes sense to me is Kinzo was somehow involved, either in order to humiliate Rudolph or in exchange for him hiding the 5th heir.
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2010-06-29, 20:30 | Link #12166 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I'd like to point out there's some serious inbreeding going on if this is the case. I mean, Asumu/ Beatrice would be Battler's aunt AND mother. Or someone's aunt and mother. Even worse if Kinzo is the father >.>
Although... wouldn't Battler wonder why the portrait in the mansion looks so much like his "mother"? |
2010-06-29, 20:32 | Link #12168 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Unless someone is killing everyone else on her behalf... He hasn't seen Asumu in six years and she (presumably) wouldn't have dressed like that around him. |
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2010-06-29, 20:32 | Link #12169 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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One small problem with the whole Beatrice-2 thing... if Beatrice-2 wound up married to somebody, wouldn't everyone's reaction to the portrait be "Dang, that looks kinda like that lady in the family?"
I mean you'd figure you couldn't really change your appearance that much, could you? Especially if you're a woman with rather distinct western features. EDIT: Unless you jumped into a closet every time anyone was about to look at you, thus foiling them invariably.
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2010-06-29, 20:35 | Link #12170 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Both of those can be changed, and furthermore, the portrait only went up after Asumu's death... |
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2010-06-29, 20:38 | Link #12171 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Maybe... the portrait is actually of Beatrice-1? Logically, Beatrice-2 would look slightly less western. Alternatively, Kinzo had the portrait painted with a mind to making Beatrice look western, considering his obsession. I mean, it's not like the painter actually had Beatrice in front of him, right?
This puts Rosa's testimony into doubt, but with the haziness of such a bizarre memory, she may well have seen a blonde woman and adjusted it later to fit the witch in the portrait. |
2010-06-29, 20:38 | Link #12172 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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Err, I dunno if I'm being misunderstood here Judoh, but I didn't mean that I thought Rudolph didn't save Kyrie. To the contrary I believe that he had to have saved her or else scenes like that would make absolutely no sense. What I'm saying though is that I don't think Rudolph could have saved her on his own and therefore has help from Kinzo. Given also that even after helping Kyrie, he doesn't marry her, I can only assume that marrying Asumu was a condition for that help.
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2010-06-29, 20:44 | Link #12173 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Oh yes, it fits.
Asumu is actually Beatrice-2, who survived the fall she sustained that Rosa witnessed. However, Asumu never completely recovered from it, and from then on, any opportunity to actually fall from any altitude, in particular from a moving vehicle, where such a fall is easy, would evoke fear in her, which Battler inherited through education. Since no timing constraints on the statement of Beatrice-2 death in red are given, it does not contradict the red -- at the start of every game, Asumu is undeniably dead! Quote:
The biggest problem that remains now is the portrait, to which I don't really have a good answer... Rosa might have misidentified the portrait with Beatrice-2 she remembered, because she only saw her for a few hours twenty years ago and the portait is here, now, and invariably associated with Beatrice, but that would not explain why nobody identified the portrait with Asumu when only four years have passed since she finally died for good. EDIT: Though come to think of it... Remember "The Hound of the Baskervilles"?
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2010-06-29, 20:44 | Link #12174 | |
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2010-06-29, 20:45 | Link #12175 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Basically no one should recognize that Beatrice in the portrait unless they were in on some kind of secret, right?
Ok, so that statement isn't very useful... but what I mean to say is that because no one except Rosa expresses that they already recognize Beatrice from somewhere that most of the family, especially the siblings, do not know of her. And that the other people who do not express anything but most likely know Beatrice must be covering it up. Kumasawa, Genji and Nanjo. Which makes Rosa's behaviour strange and unique amongst the entire family. Since we've speculated that she's kind of secretly working for the servants, why would she expose this to the siblings? |
2010-06-29, 20:47 | Link #12176 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Actually two possibilities I just thought of for the Asumu condition
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2010-06-29, 20:48 | Link #12177 | |
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2010-06-29, 20:51 | Link #12179 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Notice how Rudolf is actually the first one to provide a date, and he cites 20 years, and Rosa agrees, but Rosa cites 19 years every other time she refers to it since.
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