One Piece - Chapter 701 [manga] (No One Piece This Week - 3/11/13)

[khoa1708]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

just want to share this, i just think the way oda used sugawara bunta, matsuda yusaku, tanaka kunie and katsu shintaro as inspirations for these characters is so badass...

is the pic of tanaka kunie photoshopped?? lol! he looks exactly like kizaru

[ronin myael]

^
^
i'm not sure but what i do know is that oda designed the admirals based on the actors' roles. i believe aokiji's look was taken from matsuda's detective story series. i don't know about the rest, let's ask aohige, maybe he knows.

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by james0246

Fair point. This would even allow Oda to have Luffy and the current generation defeat Admirals without actually defeating the known most powerful Admirals.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Well, these new admirals don't necessarily have to be exactly as strong as Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu. As a matter of fact, I'm expecting them to be slightly weaker than said admiral trio. That being said, presuming that this guy is Fujitora, he doesn't have to be on par with Mihawk to be a formidable enemy, because he can still most likely defeat like 99% of the pirates out there.

Whats the Purpose of Admiral Rank then?
I hope Oda will not attempt that. He did not do that when Luffy fought the Admirals in Saboady Archipelago and Marine Ford before the time skip. Why start now? Second I think that would be a disservice to the title of Admiral, Luffy, crew, training, and Oda's story. Third what is the purpose of calling him Admiral if he is not on par with any of the present and former admirals or can't perform any of the duties that are expected of an Admiral? Its like creating a sub category between Admiral and Vice Admiral then calling him Admiral. Admiral's role is to lead thousands of troops, issue buster call, and deal with rogue Shichibukai. They are the Fleet Admiral's go to guys and they themselves are considered WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction). I hope Fujitora is just has fearsome and powerful has the former Admirals(Sengoku, Akoiji and Akainu) and present(Kizaru) one. I also hope there will be no more interference from big players like Shanks or Rayleigh. Let the Straw Hats stand on there own for better or worse. They got there power ups, now it is time to see what they can do with it.

[marvelB]

I'm actually with Grey on this one..... it makes little sense for any newly-introduced admirals to be less powerful than the previous ones, IMO. And part of that's ESPECIALLY because Akainu is in command. Can you really imagine Mr. Absolute Justice replacing guys like himself and Aokiji with people who are the same caliber as..... say, Smoker (who's practically a punching bag for the shichibukai at this point)? Because I sure as hell can't. He'd promote top-quality men who are at LEAST on par with the previous admiral trio. After all, it was already previously pointed out that Akainu restructured the marines once he became FA, and if you ask me there would be little point in going as far as to relocate the HQ to the New World if he were just going to promote any old vanilla sailors as his and Aokiji's successors.....

[james0246]

Originally Posted by marvelB

I'm actually with Grey on this one..... it makes little sense for any newly-introduced admirals to be less powerful than the previous ones, IMO. And part of that's ESPECIALLY because Akainu is in command. Can you really imagine Mr. Absolute Justice replacing guys like himself and Aokiji with people who are the same caliber as..... say, Smoker (who's practically a punching bag for the shichibukai at this point)? Because I sure as hell can't. He'd promote top-quality men who are at LEAST on par with the previous admiral trio. After all, it was already previously pointed out that Akainu restructured the marines once he became FA, and if you ask me there would be little point in going as far as to relocate the HQ to the New World if he were just going to promote any old vanilla sailors as his and Aokiji's successors.....

If the WG was so easily able to push out soldiers of similar power to the three initial Admirals, then the Grand Line would already be conquered, and the New World wouldn't be too far behind. Much the same as the Shichibukai has sliding levels of power (were some are more powerful than others), it stands to reason that the Admirals (the newer ones at least) could be potentially weaker or more powerful than those seen before. Akainu will replace his Admirals with whomever is available and can do a good job, hopefully they will be as powerful as him, but it is also unlikely that there would be so many uber-powerful marines floating around that we had no idea about.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by james0246

If the WG was so easily able to push out soldiers of similar power to the three initial Admirals, then the Grand Line would already be conquered, and the New World wouldn't be too far behind. Much the same as the Shichibukai has sliding levels of power (were some are more powerful than others), it stands to reason that the Admirals (the newer ones at least) could be potentially weaker or more powerful than those seen before. Akainu will replace his Admirals with whomever is available and can do a good job, hopefully they will be as powerful as him, but it is also unlikely that there would be so many uber-powerful marines floating around that we had no idea about.

I think we have to consider the circumstances, though. The summit war at Marineford caused some serious shifts in the world's power balance. Thanks to Whitebeard's death, the "silver medalist" pirates got more ballsy and started causing chaos in the NW. Flash forward 2 years later and we're already seeing the results (other Yonkou like Blackbeard and Big Mom stealing Whitebeard's old territory, Doflamingo and his underground weapons business, and of course, the whole pirate alliance thing that even Luffy is involved with). In such crazy times you gotta step up your game, take greater risks, and whatnot. And seeing as pirates are making underground schemes to further disrupt the world's balance, I see no reason why adding new admirals as strong as the old ones wouldn't be an appropriate measure.

Originally Posted by The Small One

But what I originally wanted to write: The buster call becomes more and more of a joke. It wasn't really dangerous in Enies Lobby, where the Straw Hats basically didn't have much problems to deal with, but what's the point of it, if an admiral does this?

Not really sure why you're saying this, because the Straw-Hats were getting pretty overwhelmed fighting against hundreds of captain-level marines at the EL buster call (they were only able to survive thanks to Going Merry's appearance). Hell, the vice-admirals didn't even get a chance to attack them at that time. Now as far as THOSE guys go, look at Marineford. Luffy was getting smacked around by VAs left and right at that time. How is that not a good indicator that the VAs are a force to be reckoned with? I mean, maybe Smoker went down a bit easily, but remember that guys like Onigumo were actually capable of taking down powerful pirates like Marco. I see no reason at all to take vice-admirals (especially guys from the buster call) lightly.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by marvelB

I think we have to consider the circumstances, though. The summit war at Marineford caused some serious shifts in the world's power balance. Thanks to Whitebeard's death, the "silver medalist" pirates got more ballsy and started causing chaos in the NW.

To be fair, the "silver medalist" were generally considered to be below the elite, so a task force of equal power to the original three wouldn't necessarily be required to take care of them.

Originally Posted by marvelB

In such crazy times you gotta step up your game, take greater risks, and whatnot. And seeing as pirates are making underground schemes to further disrupt the world's balance, I see no reason why adding new admirals as strong as the old ones wouldn't be an appropriate measure.

It's not so much the fact that Akainu shouldn't try for the best quality Admiral he can acquire, so much as does he have the necessary resources to have the best quality Admiral possible? The initial three rose through power after decades of fighting, and while there are many other career seamen out there, the idea that there are enough (that weren't present during the war) seems a little far fetched. At most I can imagine two or so supremely powerful individuals that, for whatever reason, couldn't make it to the war (maybe they were fighting Dragon's forces?)), but more than that seems unreasonable. So, if there are really four Admirals as many are predicting, then I wouldn't be surprised if some are more powerful than others.

[Dengar]

Again, couldn't they just have gotten this powerful after two whole years? I mean the Strawhats could do it.

Also, maybe one or two of them have actually come back from retirement? Maybe they weren't anywhere near Marineford during the war? (the world is a big place)

[aohige]

Originally Posted by james0246

So, if there are really four Admirals as many are predicting, then I wouldn't be surprised if some are more powerful than others.

Even if OP did go the Nue route for Admirals, it doesn't have to have four. There are Monkey-Tiger-Snake versions as well.
When I said I wanted four, that wasn't a prediction: it was a wish.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Also, maybe one or two of them have actually come back from retirement? Maybe they weren't anywhere near Marineford during the war? (the world is a big place)

Luffy is already fighting the near-senior citizens brigade (nearly all of Luffy's upcoming big bosses are somewhere around 40 (Yonkou, etc), and all the known Admirals are all around 50 and above), so adding some actual senior citizens, especially since the movies already cover such fights, seems a bit silly.

That being said, I've already explained that I strongly believe one or two highly powerful marines could have been overseeing other sections of the world (someone watching Dragon, and maybe someone watching Big Mom), and if they are just replacing the two missing Admirals that would be cool, but if there is a 4-Admiral or even 3-Admiral motif going on (as some have speculated), then I do find it a little harder to believe that there were three or four missing high-ranking figures rather than just two (and no, a 40+ year old becoming more powerful in two years is far less believable than a 17 year old becoming more powerful in such a time span).

[Dengar]

Either way, it's very possible that these new guys were just elsewhere. I mean, you can't have all of your marines in Marineford? Even during such a major event, that would be really poor strategizing.

[Tong]

The sea is vast, and there are more powerful factions around.
You just can't send all your uber Admiral-tier marines to a single battle :/

There could also be retired officials or something, to justify their absence.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Tong

The sea is vast, and there are more powerful factions around.
You just can't send all your uber Admiral-tier marines to a single battle :/

Technically, they did send all their Admiral-tier marines to one battle. As well as the Fleet Admiral and one of the few Vice-Admirals we know that can stand with the Admirals. And, of course, all the Buster Call Vice-Admirals. And the Cyborg division. And thousands upon thousands more. And the Shichibukai.

While there is some sense to the idea that some powerful people were left out of the Whitebeard War (someone needed to watch Dragon and Big Mom), Oda made it blatantly clear that the Marines were going all in for the war. They pulled out all stops, used all their top resources, and dedicated their very existence as a military force to destroying Whitebeard and his crew. The best of the best participated in the war.

[Tong]

Sure they went all out on pirates... but if you take in account that there's still 3~4 Yonkou (if you count Kurohige), Shishibukai, Dragon Revolution, and maybe Roger's ex-mates you just gotta stop and think "What if they all went crazy on the marine and world govt.?"

The power balanced looks really disbalanced if there's not some uber "secret" marines around ;o

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

I'm with James on the admiral discussion. It's not about what's appropriate, but rather likelihood. What that means is, were there unknown marine candidates who were on the level of Aokiji, Kizaru, and Akainu, pre-time-skip? Highly doubtful. Said admiral trio were able to fight equally against the strongest man in the world, which is to be expected since they're the highest battle potential of the marines. No one else was described as that but them. However, that doesn't mean there was no one else considerably to very close to their level, because FA Akainu has clearly bestowed the admiral rank on other individuals he deemed worthy. Being deemed worthy doesn't mean equality (in terms of fighting strength), however. It's about selecting the next best thing from the resources you have available.

Like I said, it doesn't really matter if these new admirals are slightly weaker than the original trio, because they can still tango with the very best and thus defeat 99% of their opposition.

[Dengar]

I somehow doubt they'd be vastly inferior to Kizaru though.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

^ Of course they won't be. They're going to be comparable to the old trio seeing as how they're the new admirals and said position is very demanding in terms of fighting capability and leadership qualities. If I were to give an estimate of where I'd classify them, I'd say Marco/Jozu level (just a little weaker than the admirals, if you will).

[grey_1960]

Guide lines
In the U.S. we are only allowed 4 admirals at a time. There are 160 flag officers at a time in the Navy. If Oda is following some of these rules then the Marines(One piece Universe) should have no problems filling in the Admiral ranks without destroying the quality of the title. How many other Vice Admirals out their who were never given the chance like Garp was to become Admiral.

Likelihood and Odds
At Marine Ford War there was 100,000 elite troops. The WG alone is consisted of 170 nations. Your telling me you can’t get at least two replacements for Akoiji and Akainu or even fill in four admirals positions? I don’t think resources and likelihood are a problem either.

Story Line
Oda has built consistency and pretty good rules in the story. I feel like if Fujitora is weakened it will hurt the story line. In my view it will destroy some of the importance and relevance to some of the character building. For instance how about the training Luffy did over two years. Then you have the achievement and the good feeling that comes with it when you play by the same rules has everyone else. If you dumb down the Admiral just so Luffy can beat him then it starts to negatively affect other parts of the story. Keep with the rules and consistentency, Luffy does not always have to win everything. It would be just has interesting if Fujitora routed the straw hats and foiled there plans. Then the straw hats (attack team) would be forced to regroup at Green Bit were Law and Dalfamingo are making the drop off. What happens when Fujitora follows them to Green bit and sees Law, Ceaser and Dalfamingo? It would be like a three way death match. I wonder if Green Bit will be wiped off the map in this arch? We have seen giant ark threatening an Fisherman Island and Law cutting a whole mountain at punk hazard. Maybe Fujitora will make green Bit disappear. Heck that may be were the factory is hidden since no one can get there by boat. Imagine Fujitora destroying the factory instead of the Straw hats. Also watch CC get caught in the whole along with the factory. Daflamingo would be one pissed man. I could see Daflamingo shaking his fist. "Damn you Fujitora!". That would be funny to see.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

What happens when Fujitora follows them to Green bit and sees Law, Ceaser and Dalfamingo?

Of course, this would be under the assumption that Fujitora is NOT the blind man, would it not?

Originally Posted by james0246

It's not so much the fact that Akainu shouldn't try for the best quality Admiral he can acquire, so much as does he have the necessary resources to have the best quality Admiral possible?

As far as the resources comment goes, I'm pretty much with the others who said that the WG/marines wouldn't keep all of their eggs in one basket. In fact, we already DO know that the WG has powerful forces aside from the marines (CP9, Impel Down wardens like Magellan, etc.). So it may very well be the case that the marines left a few of their stronger forces to stand guard in the NW in case of any impending attacks from Dragon or whoever else. Heck, that doesn't even have to apply to admiral-level soldiers, either (remember, we never saw Vergo at Marineford, either). So who's to say those particular resources never existed before the skip?



Now as to why we never heard of those new admirals before now..... well, they could have been transferred from those other positions that I mentioned earlier (CP9, ID warden), or they could have come out of retirement as well, as Dengar suggested. And it's not like it's impossible for someone in a different government branch to transfer to the marines, anyway..... recall that Sentoumaru was originally introduced as Vegapunk's bodyguard, yet after the skip he became a marine. Similar cases could apply for Fujitora and the other new admiral(s), as well.

[articuzwolf]

It's kinda stupid for Akainu if he send blind old man to tail/capture/eliminate Law & Strawhat Co. knowing he might not be able to identify them

So I believe Fujitora (assuming that old man really is Fujitora) has some sort of ability to identify his enemy

or a sidekick to help him identify his target but he ditched his sidekick away and went gambling by himself