(L) Dragon Ball Super

[Kanon]

About Kefla not defusing, it makes perfect sense given that they've been using Namek minutes in this tournament. It must have been what, two minutes at best since they fused? I don't think we were given the time remaining last week so it's a bit hard to estimate, but it shouldn't be much more than that. Vegetto Blue lasted longer than that (five minutes IIRC?), and he was stronger than Kefla.

[rpgman1]

Was expected to see Goku running out of stamina and getting whooped by Kefla. What was unexpected was Goku getting up after burning out SSB Kaioken and going UI after saying he won't give up. Reminds me of the fake SSJ form from DBZ Movie #4. Let's just say there are conditions to fulfill UI, but Goku doesn't have mastery over it yet since it almost completely drains his stamina. Probably have to wait later and see if Goku completely mastered UI.

[Lord C]

Originally Posted by Kanon

About Kefla not defusing, it makes perfect sense given that they've been using Namek minutes in this tournament. It must have been what, two minutes at best since they fused? I don't think we were given the time remaining last week so it's a bit hard to estimate, but it shouldn't be much more than that. Vegetto Blue lasted longer than that (five minutes IIRC?), and he was stronger than Kefla.

I'd say it makes perfect sense more for the fact she is weaker than Vegito. Both Kale and Caulifla together were being defeated by a Goku God with little stamina, so Kefla at full power would have much less power than Vegito Blue.

In addition to that, though diverging somehow, the manga Vegito Blue lasted roughly 30 minutes (we didn't have a good way to measure time in the anime), so it stands to reason Kefla would have more time

[vietthai96]

I think Blue pressure the Potara more than Kefla's LSSJ so Kefla last longer, and Kefla just only "emerged" for 2 minutes

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Lord C

In addition to that, though diverging somehow, the manga Vegito Blue lasted roughly 30 minutes (we didn't have a good way to measure time in the anime), so it stands to reason Kefla would have more time

Uh, it definitely felt like 5min if not less in the manga. They were still fighting Fused Zamasu before AND after Vegetto, and the former stayed fused for 1 hour.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Lord C

I'd say it makes perfect sense more for the fact she is weaker than Vegito. Both Kale and Caulifla together were being defeated by a Goku God with little stamina, so Kefla at full power would have much less power than Vegito Blue.

In addition to that, though diverging somehow, the manga Vegito Blue lasted roughly 30 minutes (we didn't have a good way to measure time in the anime), so it stands to reason Kefla would have more time

I didn't remember him lasting this long in the manga. Assuming he lasted as long in the anime, then Kefla should easily be able to last until the end of the tournament as she is. That's a big assumption though, as the manga and anime have quite a few differences. I don't suppose an actual number was given anywhere for the anime?

[Lord C]

There isn't an actual number, but Zamasu fuses with Black, spends some time beating Goku and Vegeta, then they fuse and after their confront, when Vegito defuses, Zamasu still has about 20 minutes left according to Shin. Meaning the 40 minutes Merged Zamasu spent at that point were divided along beating Goku and Vegeta separately and getting beat up by Vegito. I gave him 10 minutes, but could have been far more and far less. I just can't imagine Merged Zamasu wasting 35 minutes like that, all the more since the volume version of the manga extended the Vegito fight a few pages

[rladls2121]

I wonder if Vegito can do the Ultra Instinct?
Does this mean Kefla is stronger than Golden Frieza?

So many questions now.

Of course the only answer I sort of know is that Jiren is stronger than all of them including fused Zamasu and Black's Rose form.

[DragoMuseveni]

Vegitto might be able to use UI with ease .
About Kefla she is weaker than Golden Freeza . Golden Freeza was on par with Goku SSB . Here Kefla was able to defeat SSB because Goku was low on stamina
I think that Goku in order to enter UI must have the line of thoughts only on victory . UI looks more like a mentally state

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by DragoMuseveni

Vegitto might be able to use UI with ease .
About Kefla she is weaker than Golden Freeza . Golden Freeza was on par with Goku SSB . Here Kefla was able to defeat SSB because Goku was low on stamina
I think that Goku in order to enter UI must have the line of thoughts only on victory . UI looks more like a mentally state

is important to remember which being low in stamina don't means low in power, otherwise he could not be able to turn blue and while in blue form kefla was also fine against him, what make him lose is being low in stamina means which he wa loosing power more fast than normal but not which he was "weak", that was he tried to use the kamehameka to finish her because he could not hold the power for much more.

because still don't make sense berserker kale being on par with blue even kale alone was holding herself against goku red the only one not being able to hold was caulifla this means which fusing both she is supposed to be at last on part with blue and only after use kayoken and force even more the stamina drain which he started to gain ground against her.

[Tong]

Super Saiyan Kefla is definitely stronger than Golden Frieza.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Tong

Super Saiyan Kefla is definitely stronger than Golden Frieza.

Which makes me question why he's still so damn smug. You'd expect someone like him to be rather humbled and frustrated by the sight of so many fighters stronger than him - especially these two "monkeys" .

[SilverGlavenus]

^He probably trained a lot in the underworld, like how Goku trained with King Kai to get SSJ3.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Which makes me question why he's still so damn smug. You'd expect someone like him to be rather humbled and frustrated by the sight of so many fighters stronger than him - especially these two "monkeys" .

He is probably mellowed up...I mean he died for 3 times due to his stupidity and arrogance, so I guess he is really learned his lessons this time for real.

Not to mention, this evil overlord is probably the most team player in U7 now.

Frieza: OH NO! Goku's son in danger.. Mount a rescue!
Frieza: OH NO! Goku is dying...Better donate some of my KI to keep him alive.
Frieza: OH NO! Goku got ganked by 2 saiyan....Better mount another rescue!

As for the SSB Goku vs LSSJ Kale, I am pretty sure that Goku had been doing sandbagging ever since the arc started, and you can see the moment a weaken Goku went serious, Kefla got stomped.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Sixth

and you can see the moment a weaken Goku went serious, Kefla got stomped.

That seems quite the overstatement. Kefla didn't get "stomped" yet - it seems like she'll be, only thanks to Ultra Instinct, which isn't (yet) considered part of Goku's usual set of abilities. Pushing him to that level means she's almost a Jiren-level danger, and that's not exactly a small feat.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

That seems quite the overstatement. Kefla didn't get "stomped" yet - it seems like she'll be, only thanks to Ultra Instinct, which isn't (yet) considered part of Goku's usual set of abilities. Pushing him to that level means she's almost a Jiren-level danger, and that's not exactly a small feat.

Umm...that seems quite the overstatement.

She had a close fight with Blue Goku while Kaioken clearly overpowered her. And the only reason Blue Kaioken didn't defeat her is because he didn't have enough stamina to use that for long. Beerus said Goku needs to finish her with the next attack as he's can't maintain Kaioken anymore(well he missed and then he got knocked out of Blue with a surprise attack).

I'd say she's above SSB Goku for now, but not by much. Unless she gets better feats or a power up next episode.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

That seems quite the overstatement. Kefla didn't get "stomped" yet - it seems like she'll be, only thanks to Ultra Instinct, which isn't (yet) considered part of Goku's usual set of abilities. Pushing him to that level means she's almost a Jiren-level danger, and that's not exactly a small feat.

She did. A weaken SSB KK Goku was nearly defeated her. Just as Beerus said, Goku cannot maintain the SSB KK long enough to win the fight. Champa also agreed that the reason why was Kelfa stands a chance against SSB Goku because he was weaken.

A fresh SSB KK Goku will destroy her.

[SilverGlavenus]

^A fresh Goku wouldn't need Kaioken to defeat Kefla, though he could use it to win more easily. The whole UI thing was probably for him to master the form so he can take on Jiren later.
Also, Jiren beat Kaioken x20 Blue with his EYES only. So stating Kefla is on his level cannot be more wrong a statement.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus

^A fresh Goku wouldn't need Kaioken to defeat Kefla, though he could use it to win more easily. The whole UI thing was probably for him to master the form so he can take on Jiren later.
Also, Jiren beat Kaioken x20 Blue with his EYES only. So stating Kefla is on his level cannot be more wrong a statement.

I didn't literally mean on Jiren's level, Jiren's obviously much stronger. More like getting in that order of magnitude, aka the upper SSB+Kaioken tier. To me, being slightly less powerful but more stable/durable translates to being stronger. That was the whole point of the Cell Games back in the day. Ascended SSJ Trunks was maybe stronger than Cell, but he was also slower and had less stamina. Even Buu was a problem because of that more than anything (a lot of people had enough power to blast him to pieces, just not to resist in the ridiculously long fights he'd incite by virtue of being basically impossible to either permanently wound or tire).

[Mr. DJ]

I'd put full power Kefla probably at just the tip of SSB/Buu saga Vegito since she got waxed HARD by Goku using Kaioken with Blue in a weakened state.