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Old 2014-03-21, 20:23   Link #12201
hakazee
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Originally Posted by anonfr View Post
Yeah. It's kind of amazing. I'm just waiting for the day an admin shuts this thread down for being too long.

I pity anyone who wants to check this thread for spoilers.
I hope we can have Mahouka sub-forum like SAO, etc,, when the anime airing.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:05   Link #12202
Riddam
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Originally Posted by Echizen777 View Post
I agree with Erika losing 10 times out of 10 but your ability depends on your strengths and weaknesses. You can't confirm that Lina would lose to Miyuki 10 times out of 10, there are a lot of factors to take in consideration.
I don't know if you notice how far off from your original point you steer off to. You might want to pay attention to it. And to what others say.
I've already told you that Lina with Brionac wins. Lina without Brionac loses. In a traditional fight Lina is simply outmatched, as we saw. This is if we just take into account their magical ability.

And no one can 100% confirm anything, until the author plainly states the fact. What you can do though, is to look at what we know so far, and make an assessment based on it. You aren't doing that, you've been ignoring facts and coming up with your own conclusions.

Quote:
You say "I'm certain", what you are saying is just a strong conviction then. Age is irrelevant here, Miyuki is 16 and is at the level of Katsuto and Mayumi. Miyuki is a genius who works hard, works to reach perfection. When it comes to what she is good at she has no equals, the siblings are talented as well, it's not as if their talent are halved but they are better together, Shizuku even stated that Izumi's Zone Interference is flawed(not that it is going to be as powerful as Miyuki's) because she relies too much on her talent, that's the difference. They have all the chances to reach her level later, I don't remember a quote suggesting that she did far better than them at the exams but it's not very important.
What I have, is a natural impression that anyone reading the story should have. Your crusade is the one based on conviction.
Age, is relevant in the sense of what you learn. Does a first year student have a better understanding of the subject than the second year one?
What you need to do here is to look at them on even grounds and explain to me, why you think that they could get to Miyuki's level, when she trumps any of them in literally anything to do with magic. Shippou and Takuma already had a conversation on how unreasonably strong just Tatsuya and Takuma are compared to them, Miyuki is completely on another level magical ability-wise. Talent isn't something you train, it's something you're born with. It's impossible for them.

Give me something to understand why you're even arguing about this. From where I'm sitting at, you're just not making sense.

Quote:
I said Miyuki has better control than Shippou for now, Takuma didn't train enough and is talent for herd control should be superior to Miyuki, same for the twins who will be able to cast multiple spells better than Miyuki if they train properly. Miyuki has a similar magic to Million Edge actually, Diamond Dust it certainly requires herd control but the biggest advantage is that it is extended to 100 meters, again, it's because she is better at AOE.
I was referring to the part where you said that she isn't more talented in everything.
The twins specialize in magic that requires multiple people to cast, controlling multiple magics at a time is simply something every high level magician can do. They're not particularly talented in it. Where are you getting this? The Saegusa are a family of 'all-rounders'. And the reason they're so good at what they do, besides being Saegusa, is because that they're twins.

Again, all of these opinions are something that just don't make sense. We already saw that Miyuki has better control than Takuma. And you're saying he's more talented in it despite training that technique most of his life? What's the matter with you?

Quote:
I remember that quote from what you said about Miyuki being better, but remember that common magic is Deceleration Zone, you have to trap your opponent in the zone, it's an AOE spell. I guess you think she is better than Leo at Fortifying magic or at casting barriers than Minami?
You're going off tangent here. What quote? Why not just have it here so I know what you're talking about? And I know that Deceleration zone is a spell, I believe I've only been talking about 'Zone interference' here. And of course Miyuki is better at fortifying magic than Leo, probably all of the first course students are. What gave you the impression that Leo would be better at it, he's a 2nd course student. The reason for his combat prowess is the raw physical ability that comes from his ancestry, it's not because he's some prodigy of fortification magic, it simply fits him well. About Minami, look: "Miyuki is better at everything that they could do (except for Minami's barrier magic)". Last page, written by me. It's amazing how often you're making me repeat myself, you're continually using my posts out of context.
The Sakurai series magicians are genetically engineered towards their defensive magic. It can be said that it's unique to them. It's something that can't just casually be replicated, it's not a matter of magical talent.

Quote:
It doesn't change her fighting style at all, she fights the same, this quote means that she would have tried to do it but would have failed.
You don't read. That's something I've found out, concerning your replies. Either that or you don't actually understand what you read. Can you recall what you were saying, and what my point to it was? You're all over the place and this is turning into a mess.
The original point was that Mayumi and Mari don't have a good understanding of the abilities of Lina and Miyuki, because they're both undercover, and holding back. To which you said that you disagree and that Miyuki is only hiding Cocytus and it wouldn't change her fighting style. To this I replied that it's interesting you say that because in the fight we see her using techniques that she normally wouldn't be able to use. Which is contradictory to what you said (only affecting Cocytus).

Quote:
I'll point it out then
Spoiler for Quote:
So, what am I looking at here?

Quote:
HMB is publicly known as a nuke, it means she used it before without Brionac which only serves to contain the power, she shots it like Tatsuya's MB.
Uh, so what? Are you saying Tatsuya wouldn't die if he used Material Burst at close range? You said Lina wouldn't with Heavy metal burst (without Brionac). I asked you to explain.

Quote:
It has never been said that there is no traditional means to counter OSM or Mental Interference magic, it is called OSM because it doesn't belong to the magic classifications. There are traditional counters. Honoka uses Mental Interference magic too, Evil Eye and she can use it on 4 people at the same time, the magic is not lethal but no matter how you see it, it is far more useful than Cocytus.
"It hasn't been said", since when did you care about what's been said? Do you know what the traditional magic defenses are? Do you know that none of them work on any of the outer systematic magics that we know of? So, do name me these traditional counters.

Also, it's cool that Honoka can use evil eye on 4 people. Miyuki can target 16.

Quote:
You'll have to find it or I won't believe you, CAD are made to accelerate the casting speed. Miyuki has no Flash Cast.
Sorry I just won't bother, if you wouldn't ignore it you most likely would just disagree with it, so I just don't feel like I should put any more time into this than necessary. This is something you should really know if you payed attention while reading. But apparently you can find it on Volume 8.

Quote:
You can't prove that, the facts favor Naotsugu.
What facts would those be?

Quote:
Yes, it's unfounded, so is your claim that Miyuki's psion count is near Tatsuya's. Tatsuya and Tatsurou psion count are exceptionally high, to suppress this, Miyuki uses her MI magic, not her psion count. I don't remember a single quote which implied that her psion count was near Tatsuya's.
Again, you're misinformed. Tell me, why wouldn't she have around the same Psion level? That's the illogical claim. Not mine. Tatsuya and Miyuki are brother and sister. And yes, there's a quote in the books, that I'm too lazy to fetch for you.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:28   Link #12203
Riddam
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Originally Posted by Echizen777 View Post
I never doubted Miyuki had a huge psion count but it is considerably less than Tatsuya's. After she unleashed his full power, Tatsuya's body was completely wrapped by psions, so much that it was blinding.
Saying it's considerably more, is unjustified. Tatsuya had some shiny little psions floating around before he pulled them back in and controlled his aura, that could mean various things. And for all we know it could happen to Miyuki as well. You can't just use that to conclude that Tatsuya's psion reserves are considerably larger. They have the same parents. It would be odd if their reserves differed a lot.

Quote:
It was faster back then because CADs weren't as efficient as in 2095. Tatsuya wasn't even known as Taurus Silver, his works greatly enhanced CAD's performances(more than 10 years or something). Miyuki succeeded to use it because the kidnapper couldn't use Cast Jamming properly.
You do realize that volume 8 takes place in 2092? And you do realize Loop cast only affects Specialized CADs, right?
And as Luckmonth said, it's actually the Antinite doing the Cast jamming, not the magician.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:31   Link #12204
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Originally Posted by Riddam View Post
bunch of text
I feel sympathy for you. Dat feeling of talking to someone while your points never come across them.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:40   Link #12205
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I believe he means that Taurus silver advanced the technology by 10 years in only 1 year of work.
.
Also in vol. 8 the soldiers using antinite weren't magicians so they couldn't use cast jamming efficiently.
.
No one, not even Tatsuya is superior in every single way, Miyuki has great talent but she can't equal Katsuto defensive magic for example but that hardly make her inferior.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:43   Link #12206
anonfr
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Originally Posted by Riddam View Post
What you need to do here is to look at them on even grounds and explain to me, why you think that they could get to Miyuki's level, when she trumps any of them in literally anything to do with magic. Shippou and Takuma already had a conversation on how unreasonably strong just Tatsuya and Takuma are compared to them, Miyuki is completely on another level magical ability-wise. Talent isn't something you train, it's something you're born with. It's impossible for them.
I'm sorry, I want to point this out before someone else does. Takuma and shippou are the same person. Full name Shippou Takuma. I think you meant Takuma and one of the Saegusa twins (Kasumii?) for the first line. And I think you meant Tatsuya and Tomitsuka for the second lines.

I also think you already knew that but you're getting entirely too burned out to keep up your argument.

For the record, I believe that while there's never a single quote saying Miyuki's psion level is close to Tatsuya's, there's also never a quote saying Miyuki's Psion isn't close to Tatsuya's either. Besides I thought the books made a point of saying it was discovered Psion level isn't necessarily important to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
I feel sympathy for you. Dat feeling of talking to someone while your points never come across them.
I also feel a lot of sympathy. From what I can see, It's like one of them is trying to argue their personal opinion as fact, and the other one while not necessarily disagreeing 100%, is desperately trying to point out the folly of stating your opinion as fact as it spreads misinformation.

On some things, They're not just missing eachother's points, they're misunderstanding each others entire subject matter of debate.

This is almost as bad as one of the recent Erika debates. Hard times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
I believe he means that Taurus silver advanced the technology by 10 years in only 1 year of work.
.
Also in vol. 8 the soldiers using antinite weren't magicians so they couldn't use cast jamming efficiently.
.
No one, not even Tatsuya is superior in every single way, Miyuki has great talent but she can't equal Katsuto defensive magic for example but that hardly make her inferior.
There's also the fact that any battle is circumstantial in a sense. Miyuki was still super talented when she was younger, so was her mom, but they still got pumped full of machine gun holes. There's a lot that factors into that particular situation and contributes to said hole pumping, but it sort of shows you can't just account for everything in every situation.
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Old 2014-03-21, 23:48   Link #12207
Lucarion
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Originally Posted by anonfr View Post
Yeah he'll definitely live at least until the story reaches a conclusion. That's plot armor.

But that just means he'll survive, not that he'll always win 100%. His invincibility is still more due to a type of gary stu-ness. Though I do really like that the author made it so that Tatsuya's Gary Stu-ness also makes a type of sense.

Mary Sue type characters and variants are usually unrealistic and idealized prodigies. Tatsuya does fall into that, but he differs in that he has a good reason for it.
Mary Sue characters are also known to be basic prodigies for no reason, just that they are. Tatsuya is a prodigy due to experiments, intensive training, a noble background and natural higher education. So even though he's still a Gary Stu, he's as good and acceptable a version of it as we'll ever get.

He's a gary stu that can remain interesting despite being a gary stu.

I don't think Tatsuya is a Gary Stu. Unless the term's use has changed recently, he doesn't really fit the definition I know of a Sue.

For one, there's absolutely no way he can be a self-insert character. At least, that's the impression I get from the afterwords and what bits and pieces of Tsutomu's interviews I find. And he shares too many personality traits with Shiva. The author wrote him as his own character and took a god as a basis rather than draw most of his inspiration from his own self.

Second, he isn't a blackhole of attention. He should be, what with the complicated nature of his existence, but the story gives an ample enough of attention to the other characters for us to care about them all rather than just care about how they affect Tatsuya.

Tatsuya is also not played as some moral paragon...but rather as this ubermench-ian force of nature. A personification of power. An absolute picture of strength. And strength doesn't care about things like "good or evil"--it's above that. Strength is strength. And it can do whatever it wants regardless of its reasons. The story shows us that what we should feel when we see Tatsuya destroy his fellow man isn't joy--but terror. As one should when one meets someone so absolute. Tatsuya is screwed up. (And so is Miyuki for that matter...like the rest of the Yotsuba.)

Also, his powers are the result of nature and nurture. He's spent most of his time honing his ability to destroy his enemies quickly and efficiently. With the amount of work he put in, I'd be surprised to see him not be as good as he is as what he does. Plus, he's smart. Genuinely smart. We don't see Tatsuya making petty, dumbass decisions. Everything he does actually is right rather than arbitrarily so. The fact that his skills are justified remove most of the criticism about him being OP. Because being OP in itself isn't bad...it's bad only if it breaks your suspension of disbelief.

So I don't see Tatsuya as a Sue. I see him as a rationalized god character.

A god character.

Not a Sue.

And when you see him as a god character, like Belldandy, a lot of his idealized traits and how he affects the world begin to make a good amount of sense.
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Old 2014-03-21, 23:54   Link #12208
anonfr
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Originally Posted by Lucarion View Post
I don't think Tatsuya is a Gary-Stu. Unless the term's use has changed recently, he doesn't really fit the definition I know of a Sue.

For one, there's absolutely no way he can be a self-insert character. At least, that's the impression I get from the afterwords and what bits and pieces of Tsutomu's interviews I can get. And he shares too many personality traits with Shiva. The author wrote him as his own character and took a god as a basis rather than draw most of his inspiration from his own self.

Second, he isn't a blackhole of attention. He should be, what with the complicated nature of his existence, but the story gives an ample enough of attention to the other characters for us to care about them all rather than just care about how they affect Tatsuya.

Tatsuya is also not played as some moral paragon...but rather as this ubermench-ian force of nature. A personification of power. An absolute picture of strength. And strength doesn't care about things like "good or evil"--it's above that. Strength is strength. And it can do whatever it wants regardless of its reasons. The story shows us that what we should feel when we see Tatsuya destroy his fellow man isn't joy--but terror. As one should when one meets someone so absolute. Tatsuya is screwed up. (And so is Miyuki for that matter...like the rest of the Yotsuba.)

Also, his powers are the result of nature and nurture. He's spent most of his time honing his ability to destroy his enemies quickly and efficiently. With the amount of work he put in, I'd be surprised to see him not be as good as he is as what he does. Plus, he's smart. Genuinely smart. We don't see Tatsuya making petty, dumbass decisions. Everything he does actually is right rather than arbitrarily so. The fact that his skills are justified remove most of the criticism about him being OP. Because being OP in itself isn't bad...it's bad only if it breaks your suspension of disbelief.

So I don't see Tatsuya as a Sue. I see him as a rationalized god character.

A god character.

Not a Sue.

And when you see him as a god character, like Belldandy, a lot of his idealized traits and how he affects the world begin to make a good amount of sense.
I said he's kind of a Gary Stu. Which he is. Or at least, he can definitely be argued as one easily.

Part of the definition is a Mary sue is

Quote:
Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling.
That part, if nothing else, definitely describes Tatsuya. I don't think you can argue that. He's not an author self insert, or an overly moralistic Character. But he is an unrealistic super genius with a very wide skill set. I don't see how that can be denied.

When I said he was a Gary Stu, I was really only referring to that. I'm not really disagreeing with you, at all actually. I don't disagree with you. I'm only playing into that one singular Mary Sue definition, which can be applied to Tatsuya.
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Old 2014-03-22, 00:14   Link #12209
Lucarion
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Originally Posted by anonfr View Post
I said he's kind of a Gary Stu. Which he is. Or at least, he can definitely be argued as one easily.

Part of the definition is a Mary sue is



That part, if nothing else, definitely describes Tatsuya. I don't think you can argue that. He's not an author self insert, or an overly moralistic Character. But he is an unrealistic super genius with a very wide skill set. I don't see how that can be denied.

When I said he was a Gary Stu, I was really only referring to that. I'm not really disagreeing with you, at all actually. I don't disagree with you. I'm only playing into that one singular Mary Sue definition, which can be applied to Tatsuya.
I see your point.
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Old 2014-03-22, 00:20   Link #12210
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I see your point.
Glad someone does. Hardly anyone agrees on forums anymore.
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Old 2014-03-22, 01:07   Link #12211
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Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
I feel sympathy for you. Dat feeling of talking to someone while your points never come across them.
I know what you mean#!

Any why are we discussing Miyuki battling again?

Btw Erika is just plain adorable

PS: 2 more weeks and we'll finally get the hate#!
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Old 2014-03-22, 01:11   Link #12212
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Originally Posted by pampz21 View Post
I know what you mean#!

Any why are we discussing Miyuki battling again?

Btw Erika is just plain adorable

PS: 2 more weeks and we'll finally get the hate#!
I'm scared to join in the anime tread. Too scary . I will still be miyuki x tatsuya.
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Old 2014-03-22, 02:30   Link #12213
Guest2
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Originally Posted by Riddam View Post
They have a 1 year difference in age, give or take. And Miyuki was miles ahead of them in everything last year, they're good magicians to be sure, but they're not going to ever catch up to Miyuki. I'm certain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echizen777 View Post
You say "I'm certain", what you are saying is just a strong conviction then. Age is irrelevant here, Miyuki is 16 and is at the level of Katsuto and Mayumi. Miyuki is a genius who works hard, works to reach perfection. When it comes to what she is good at she has no equals, the siblings are talented as well, it's not as if their talent are halved but they are better together, Shizuku even stated that Izumi's Zone Interference is flawed(not that it is going to be as powerful as Miyuki's) because she relies too much on her talent, that's the difference. They have all the chances to reach her level later, I don't remember a quote suggesting that she did far better than them at the exams but it's not very important.
I agree with Riddim here in that they are unlikely to ever reach her level. Since I believe Miyuki is actually the same age as the Saegusa twins, Kuroba twins, Shippou and Minami but is already stated as having one of the highest levels of power in her country and the world(v9c7), and is constantly trying to improve herself to impress her brother.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddam View Post
And as Luckmonth said, it's actually the Antinite doing the Cast jamming, not the magician.
I'm pretty sure the novel explained cast jamming is also a form of magic and that the input of psions is what the antinite propagates as 'random noise'. So cast jamming does require someone with a bit of magical talent. The soldier in v8 is probably like Shizuku's brother who is stated to have some rudimentary magic talent but not enough to be able to actually use magic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddam View Post
"It hasn't been said", since when did you care about what's been said? Do you know what the traditional magic defenses are? Do you know that none of them work on any of the outer systematic magics that we know of? So, do name me these traditional counters.
It has been mentioned in the description for Kuroba's special outer-systematic magic that counter magic would work, although It wasn't specific, and that it uses activation sequences. I assume the basic counter requiring a similar level and type of magic to offset/prevent the spell would apply. Also if it has an activation sequence and also I assume a magic sequence, whether made of pushions or psions, I also assume gram dispersion or gram demolition might still also be applicable.





Quote:
Originally Posted by azziz View Post
what anoyed me wasn't lu,but the other nineteen of the 20 elite force who were defetead off-screen by only three high school student withouth even one injury:none seem to remember about them
Sorry, which part was this again? Do you mean Lu's backup when he attacked in v7. It wasn't written out well sand left much to the imagination, but wasn't there a whole branch of magicians already defending the area? Lu and his gang were beating down on them but were unstoppable, and Mari got her armour from them. Its only an assumption but I would like to think the other Japanese magicians didn't just pack up and leave when Mayumi and Co attacked.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoks View Post
This is incorrect. Remember how Miyuki got shot? Tatsuya couldn't watch her then; his abilities weren't fully developed yet. He even complained to his mother about being sent outside because he lacked the capacity to defend her. His ability to monitor her either comes from the seal or from the fact he used Regrowth on her, which as we have already seen from his original use of Material Burst, allows him to track items using his Elemental Sight.
Actually it was explained at that time there was a traditional barrier magic set around the entire building to prevent magical reconnaissance and thats why Tatsuya couldn't see through the walls and complained to his mother late when she suggested he leave and go scout. But I also do believe that anything he uses magic on allows him to easily track it with E.S.




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Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X View Post
@ Guest2: I think your wrong on both cases, but I honestly can't be bothered to further explain on my posts since im basing my arguments from the novel and it holds no meaning if the person im debating/arguing agaisnt refuses to accept them and twists it around.
This is an amusing comment since it seems like your suggesting that my point about Tatsuya using one of his strongest magics to recover being crucial to him being able to obtain victory, as not being based on hat happened in the novel. What I previously tried to point out is that I don't disagree with any of the facts you posted, but as I still do believe his use of his strongest magic and the his opponents were unprepared for his follow up surprise actions, were crucial to him being able to pull off his wins after he already having been crippled. I don't remember refusing to accept or twisting your points since none of them actually denied my original main point that his magic allowed him a 2nd chance. So far no one else has had a similar chance or ability.

Last edited by Guest2; 2014-03-22 at 02:43.
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Old 2014-03-22, 04:07   Link #12214
pampz21
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Check out main site we have a new lesson#!

New lesson are thought by Mayumi x Katsuto#!

Edit:Q & A with the author and illustrator.

What made me lol was Ishida Kana's comment about making Miyuki more beautiful and a certain high spirited girl pose.

So the author doesnt want to go incest route too;
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Last edited by pampz21; 2014-03-22 at 04:22.
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Old 2014-03-22, 06:11   Link #12215
Echizen777
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It's amusing when you say I don't read because the more I read your posts the more I believe my reading comprehension is better than yours. You are just overrating Miyuki and downplaying everyone’s else, even Tatsuya, that enormous quantity of psion is just “some” psion to you. Tatsuya and Tatsurou’s psion count are way beyond anyone we know so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
I believe he means that Taurus silver advanced the technology by 10 years in only 1 year of work.
.
Also in vol. 8 the soldiers using antinite weren't magicians so they couldn't use cast jamming efficiently.
.
No one, not even Tatsuya is superior in every single way, Miyuki has great talent but she can't equal Katsuto defensive magic for example but that hardly make her inferior.
This is what I mean exactly, in 2092 CADs were not as good as in 2095. We assisted to the birth of Taurus Silver in volume 8. Tatsuya was already working on CADs but his encounter with Sanada really helped him, then he published his findings, CADs became ultra fast and he created the Loop Cast System. Miyuki is awesome but she is not better at everything in all the areas of magic, only at ice magic and magics with AOE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddam View Post
I don't know if you notice how far off from your original point you steer off to. You might want to pay attention to it. And to what others say.
I've already told you that Lina with Brionac wins. Lina without Brionac loses. In a traditional fight Lina is simply outmatched, as we saw. This is if we just take into account their magical ability.
And no one can 100% confirm anything, until the author plainly states the fact. What you can do though, is to look at what we know so far, and make an assessment based on it. You aren't doing that, you've been ignoring facts and coming up with your own conclusions. .
I am not talking about Lina with Brionac, Lina without Brionac rivalsMiyuki, if you say yourself that we can confirm nothing don't say Miyuki would win 10 times out of 10.

Quote:
What I have, is a natural impression that anyone reading the story should have. Your crusade is the one based on conviction.
Huh, no.

Quote:
Age, is relevant in the sense of what you learn. Does a first year student have a better understanding of the subject than the second year one?
What you need to do here is to look at them on even grounds and explain to me, why you think that they could get to Miyuki's level, when she trumps any of them in literally anything to do with magic. Shippou and Takuma already had a conversation on how unreasonably strong just Tatsuya and Takuma are compared to them, Miyuki is completely on another level magical ability-wise. Talent isn't something you train, it's something you're born with. It's impossible for them. Give me something to understand why you're even arguing about this. From where I'm sitting at, you're just not making sense.
Your understanding of a subject is subjective , not everybody has the same comprehension, it’s like that IRL. If age is so relevant then can we agree that Mayumi and Mari are stronger than Miyuki, who is 16? No, we can’t because you are just contradicting yourself.
Miyuki trumps the freshmen because she trained more than them at all areas, not because she is more talented than them in all areas, the Saegusa twins are talented, Shippou is talented, Miyuki’s ice magic is the best in the world and AOE spells are her speciality. You are mixing up the definition of talent and training, I’ll quote the Kasumi/Takuma discussion.

Spoiler for Quote from v12:


You, who understand so well, how do you interpret this? The freshmen natural talent is way, way, way above Tomitsuka because of their genes but Tomitsuka trained way, way, way more than them. With a proper training those 3 will be able to stomp Tomitsuka, the genes of the 28 families are just that good, in volume 3, Hanzo, arguably the strongest magician of 1st high after the triumvirate admitted he would lose to Miyuki 80% of the time(personally I think it would be 100%) and he doesn’t even know she is a Yotsuba. I remember it was said that school isn’t even very important in their era, you can really become noticeably stronger by in real competitions, training sessions, at clubs, and outside of school.



Quote:
I was referring to the part where you said that she isn't more talented in everything.
The twins specialize in magic that requires multiple people to cast, controlling multiple magics at a time is simply something every high level magician can do. They're not particularly talented in it. Where are you getting this? The Saegusa are a family of 'all-rounders'. And the reason they're so good at what they do, besides being Saegusa, is because that they're twins.
The twins aren’t specialized, they are Saegusas, omnipotent, product of the 3rd lab. You say it yourself below, again, contradiction.

Spoiler for Another quote for you:


They have no signature magic but they can control multiple spells better than anyone else, since they have no weaknesses in any area, they can combine various magics,
The 3rd lab share their findings with the 10th lab(which produced the Juumonji clan), this is probably the reason Juumonjis are able to cast dozen of barriers so easily.

[QUOTE]Again, all of these opinions are something that just don't make sense. We already saw that Miyuki has better control than Takuma. And you're saying he's more talented in it despite training that technique most of his life? What's the matter with you?[QUOTE]

I repeat Miyuki= outstanding talent + perfect training, Shippou and the Saegusa twins= talent + moderate training.

Quote:
You're going off tangent here. What quote? Why not just have it here so I know what you're talking about?
And I know that Deceleration zone is a spell, I believe I've only been talking about 'Zone interference' here. And of course Miyuki is better at fortifying magic than Leo, probably all of the first course students are. What gave you the impression that Leo would be better at it, he's a 2nd course student. The reason for his combat prowess is the raw physical ability that comes from his ancestry, it's not because he's some prodigy of fortification magic, it simply fits him well. About Minami, look: "Miyuki is better at everything that they could do (except for Minami's barrier magic)". Last page, written by me. It's amazing how often you're making me repeat myself, you're continually using my posts out of context.
The Sakurai series magicians are genetically engineered towards their defensive magic. It can be said that it's unique to them. It's something that can't just casually be replicated, it's not a matter of magical talent.
Comes from his ancestry huh? Why do you think Miyuki is so talented in the first place?
You admit yourself that Miyuki isn’t better than Minami at casting barriers ? So it means she isn’t better than anyone at anything, there are exceptions. In Mahouka genes= talents, Honami was exceptionally gifted, she had the talent of a member of the 10MC, Maya also confirmed that Minami, her clone, has a talent comparable to the twins. Shippou’s genes make him predisposed for herd control, his talent is above Miyuki in that category, but his skills aren’t honed to perfection like Miyuki.


Quote:
You don't read. That's something I've found out, concerning your replies. Either that or you don't actually understand what you read. Can you recall what you were saying, and what my point to it was? You're all over the place and this is turning into a mess.
The original point was that Mayumi and Mari don't have a good understanding of the abilities of Lina and Miyuki, because they're both undercover, and holding back. To which you said that you disagree and that Miyuki is only hiding Cocytus and it wouldn't change her fighting style. To this I replied that it's interesting you say that because in the fight we see her using techniques that she normally wouldn't be able to use. Which is contradictory to what you said (only affecting Cocytus).
Miyuki without her limiter isn't very different, she controls her magic better and can use Cocytus, that's all. At Yokohoma she was at full power and rivaled with Mayumi, another member of the 10MC who works hard. Cocytus is her ultimate technique, beingable to use it doesn't mean your fighting style changed, if Miyuki had become a CQC fighter or something, I would agree with you.

Quote:
So, what am I looking at here?
You asked me how exhaustion could affect their fight, this is the answer, don't play dumb. It even mentions that the winner would be the person with the most rational decisions. Miyuki pwned Lina for 3 reasons, Lina was an idiot underestimating an opponent as strong as her, once Miyuki took the initiative, she was already caught in her trap, Miyuki was calmer than her and Lina was exhausted.

Quote:
Uh, so what? Are you saying Tatsuya wouldn't die if he used Material Burst at close range? You said Lina wouldn't with Heavy metal burst (without Brionac). I asked you to explain.
Anyone with common sense will put himself at a reasonable distance before using a magic that powerful, Lina is still alive, meaning she was acting like that when she used HMB before, you think someone would be dumb enough to use a magical nuke at close range?

Quote:
"It hasn't been said", since when did you care about what's been said? Do you know what the traditional magic defenses are? Do you know that none of them work on any of the outer systematic magics that we know of? So, do name me these traditional counters.

Also, it's cool that Honoka can use evil eye on 4 people. Miyuki can target 16.
Thanks to Luckmonth I discovered that Cast Jamming nullifies MI magic too. The number isn't important and 16 people were opponents she can beat at the same time, not that she can hit with MI magic. There are conventional defenses for these magics we just don't know them all, I used Honoka because if you think her Cocytus is unstoppable, so is her Evil Eye, or even Azusa's Azusayumi.



Quote:
What facts would those be?
Naotsugu can reach top speed and decelerate instantly, this is the best speed magic we have seen so far. He moves faster than the thought can perceive.

Spoiler for Quote, again:


Quote:
Again, you're misinformed. Tell me, why wouldn't she have around the same Psion level? That's the illogical claim. Not mine. Tatsuya and Miyuki are brother and sister. And yes, there's a quote in the books, that I'm too lazy to fetch for you.
Why should she have the same psion count? Tatsuya has not her talent in magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest2 View Post
I agree with Riddim here in that they are unlikely to ever reach her level. Since I believe Miyuki is actually the same age as the Saegusa twins, Kuroba twins, Shippou and Minami but is already stated as having one of the highest levels of power in her country and the world(v9c7), and is constantly trying to improve herself to impress her brother.
Don't misunderstand. By reaching her level I don't mean they'll be stronger than her, just being in the same ballpark, they will become difficult opponents for her. Given that they are from the 28 families they have the potential to even surpass her, not that I think it will happen. When Tatsuya and Miyuki will go to university, it's more than likely that these 3 will be the strongest students of 1st high.

I would like to say that I think Minami is way stronger than the 3 freshmen, she has the talent and received harsh training like Tatsuya. Miyuki could beat easily the others freshmen but not her, I am sure of it.

I am confident she could beat Tomitsuka or Hanzo, she is like the Miyuki of this new year.
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Old 2014-03-22, 06:14   Link #12216
kazzuya13
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Many anticipated the anime adaptation and once it airs there will be more than 90% complaint about the anime and many will keep saying that the LN was much better.
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Old 2014-03-22, 06:48   Link #12217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazzuya13 View Post
Many anticipated the anime adaptation and once it airs there will be more than 90% complaint about the anime and many will keep saying that the LN was much better.
You can feel the hate already#!
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Old 2014-03-22, 06:51   Link #12218
kusabireika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampz21 View Post
You can feel the hate already#!
^ it still depend for me if they faithfully follow the ln. For miyuki I won't hate her. Too bad we can't see miki
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Old 2014-03-22, 07:19   Link #12219
CatRules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampz21 View Post
So the author doesnt want to go incest route too;
Is THAT true?

p.s. I like Jumonji's VA. His voice is intimidating.
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Old 2014-03-22, 07:24   Link #12220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatRules View Post
Is THAT true?

p.s. I like Jumonji's VA. His voice is intimidating.
Not that I want to start a shipping war again but once Tasuya's feelings were known, I just couldn't imagine a Miyuki ending, he can't see her as a woman, she is just a sister to him. It is almost impossible to make a believable ending with these 2 becoming a couple.

Meaning that...my dream of Yandere Miyuki might come true .
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