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Old 2009-11-16, 16:28   Link #1101
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziziphus View Post
I think going through the gate is all that you need to become a sacrifice, as long as you're an alchemist (ie. Hohenheim), Ling and Envy don't know anything about alchemy so that doesn't count. I assume one must have enough alchemic knowledge first hand to be able to meet Truth at the other side of the gate.
That being said, I wonder if that was actually Homunculus's purpose for creating Gluttony. Envy once said that Gluttony is a failed recreation of the Gate of Truth. I wonder if he was attempting to duplicate his own gate so that other potential sacrifices would see it and ultimately become actual sacrifices.
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Old 2009-11-18, 09:27   Link #1102
GrahamAker
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i am still confused about the xing alchemy and amestris one ? whats special about the xing one ? it works agaainst father also!
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Old 2009-11-18, 13:00   Link #1103
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It worked against Father because he didn't even know it existed and thus was unable to disable it.
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Old 2009-11-18, 14:02   Link #1104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhus12
whats special about the xing one ?
We're still into speculations at this point, and I'm not even sure we're ever going to have a clear explanation. I personnaly believe that Xing and Amestris' alchemy both use a "stream" of soul energy, except that the one used in Amestris is artificial and fueled by Father's philosopher's stone, while the Xing one is natural, fueled by the soul energy of every person who died in the world, and whose soul wasn't "captured" by some alchemy circle like the one used for the philosopher's stone.

After all, Arakawa did say that she gave the first anime team details about her universe and ending...
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Old 2009-11-18, 15:48   Link #1105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
Wasn't it said in one chapter, that Amestris' alchemy uses energy from the earth (like geothermal energy)?
Yeah, Marcoh said it, but it was almost immediately put into doubt by May Chang, who felt something else underneath them. The equations for using alchemy were probably brought in Amestris by Father, and it is probable that he lied to them about where the energy came from.
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Old 2009-11-18, 18:56   Link #1106
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Which actually brings me to a question which is bugging me for a while: Where did father even get his knowledge (of alchemy) from?
We were shown that he was nothing but a creation of Hohenheim's owner, but he had knowledge nobody in Xerxes seemed to have.



Wasn't it said in one chapter, that Amestris' alchemy uses energy from the earth (like geothermal energy)? Maybe Xing's alchemy is simply based on multiple energy sources.
I just wonder when exactly Ed and Al will find the time to learn this type of alchemy.
I'm pretty sure that the following things hold:
1. The alchemy used in Xing is the same (or at least, a similar) version of the alchemy used in Xerxes. It uses the energy of the planet, or of leftover soul-energy from those who have passed on. Something like that.
2. The alchemy used in Armestris primarily differs from that used in xing/xerxes in that it uses Father as an energy source. It does seem to be easily adaptable to "real" alchemy, because the array on Scar's right arm is based off of Armestris's alchemy, which his brother noted was odd. Most likely, what Scar's brother found to be odd about the alchemy was that it seemed to use energy from a single isolated source, something other than the planet that didn't seem like it should be able to provide all that energy, or would be as flexible in range as eastern alchemy, and so he modified the armestris-based array which ended up as Scar's right arm it to use energy from the planet, like the eastern forms of alchemy, instead.
3. Father/Homunculis came from the gate. He was not "created," but rather "retrieved," and has some kind of connection to The Truth (don't their grins/eye things look kind of similar?). Hence why he has so much knowledge (or,at least, he had some knowledge about some specific things like how to open the gate, and has accumulated tons of knowledge over the centuries, like Hohenheim... he just knew some alchemy and how to open the gate because he came from it.)

At least, that's what I think.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's more to Roy's alchemy than he's revealed.
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Old 2009-11-18, 19:24   Link #1107
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Wait, so if the energy comes from Father, does that mean that Armestris alchemists are going to be SOL when he is finally killed off?
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Old 2009-11-19, 02:54   Link #1108
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IF it is really the case, then that's the logical conclusion.
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:39   Link #1109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I don't think this is true. IMHO the alchemy of Xerxes was the same one now used in Amestris … and the only one father (and Hohenheim) knows.
It was explained, that the people of Xing modified the alchemy which was teached to them (the one from Xerxes) to fit to their knowledge of nature. Father was totally surprised that they were able to use alchemy so he had no knowledge of it. If he knew it, he shouldn't be surprised, especially when dealing with foreigners.
How do we know the alchemy used in Xerxes is the same as the one used in Amestris? Sure, with Homunculus's influence, the people of Xerxes created the philosopher's stone. But there's nothing to actually indicate that Amestris and Xerxes used exactly the same kind of alchemy. I'm more tempted to believe that Alchemy itself is separated by a Dark and Light side. The Dark side abuses the energy of human beings that are used as sacrifice for their procedures. They use energy from the Earth's crust. Xingese alchemy uses a different, more mystical energy. Rather than use energy expelled by humans as they become part of the Earth's surface, they use the life force that connects living beings together. Scar's brother described this before as the power that connects humans through their emotions. If positive emotions come from one human, it spreads and that emotion is reciprocated, flowing throughout all the people and vice versa in the case of negative emotions. That is the power Xingese alchemy uses, completely different from Amestrian alchemy. That is why Homunculus could not disable Scar's and Mai's alchemy.
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:40   Link #1110
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So if they succeed in killing father how in the world are Ed and Al going to get their bodies back? I can see the series ending with maybe Al having his body back and the two of them continuing to travel around, maybe to Xing to study different kinds of alchemy and maybe creating their own style.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:41   Link #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
So if they succeed in killing father how in the world are Ed and Al going to get their bodies back? I can see the series ending with maybe Al having his body back and the two of them continuing to travel around, maybe to Xing to study different kinds of alchemy and maybe creating their own style.
That would be interesting but not very Shounen... I think FMA might ultimately follow the rules of its genre and have a happy ending to some extent. If Ed and Al don't get their bodies back by the end of the series, why did Arakawa have to bother with her 100-and-something-chapter, nearly-10-years-in-the-making epic, anyways? Every plot summary of FMA only mentions that the whole story is the story of two brothers searching for a way to get their bodies back; I think having it end any other way might defeat the whole manga's purpose. In conclusion, I'm predicting that some characters might be killed off in the process, but Ed and Al will be able to fufill their long quest in the end.
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Old 2009-11-20, 06:41   Link #1112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
So if they succeed in killing father how in the world are Ed and Al going to get their bodies back? I can see the series ending with maybe Al having his body back and the two of them continuing to travel around, maybe to Xing to study different kinds of alchemy and maybe creating their own style.
Homunculus may not be of help, but remember that Hohenheim is there. He may sacrifice his own power to his sons so they can get their bodies back. Call it redemption on his part for leaving his wife and children, and not being with his wife when she died. That's what I'm guessing after all, and it would fit that dark theme FMA has as well, but it ultimately leads to a good ending.
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Old 2009-11-20, 11:14   Link #1113
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But if it's true I wonder which gate he came from. We could see that Al's gate looks different from Ed's. I think that "the truth" may be different for everyone, or that there are at least multiple different gates. Maybe even 5, which would explain why father needs 5 persons to open the (a) gate simultaneously.
I think Arakawa said in an interview that the Truth is different for each person, it is a like a mirror of that person.

But the theory for different gates? ehhh I thought that there were two gates are one was from where Ed cam i.e. the fake gate. If there were many gates then what on its other side also is different? Which would mean that each individual opening the gate gains different knowledge??

@ Yoko Takeo: I don't think Ed and Al would approve using Hohemheim. Remember Hohemheim once asked Ed if he still wanted to use the philosopher's stone they seeked for so long? Ed refused. They might be unwilling to use the energy of the souls of Xerxes.

I think Al already got back his body. Ed only have to drag/snatch his body parts from the Truth guy. Afterwards they can fight Father.

I am curious on how they will be able to win against a philosopher's stone?? Well only Arakawa can come up with a brilliant idea to wrap the last chapters beautifully.

Possible deaths: Izumi, Roy, Wrath, Pride.
Father can be sent back from where he came i.e. the other side of the gate.
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Old 2009-11-20, 13:12   Link #1114
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Where was it said that Xing modified their alchemy??? The only thing I remember about modifying is Scar's brother using his knowledge of Amestris' alchemy to modify the Xingese alchemy he learned about and which reminded him of his people's faith in Ishbala.
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Old 2009-11-20, 19:11   Link #1115
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Plus, remember that Father brought alchemy to Armestris, and Hohenheim brought it to Xing.
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Old 2009-11-21, 09:04   Link #1116
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According to Fû, their alchemy before the Sage of the West came to them was really limited, they notably thought that mercury would give them eternal life. I'm not even sure we can call that "modify", more like "expand a lot"
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Old 2009-11-22, 04:12   Link #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Well, it was said that both Amestris and Xing got their knowledge of alchemy from Xerxes. And it was explicitly stated that Xing modified theirs. However nobody mentioned that Amestris did any changes, so logically it should still be the same.
Those must have been some radical changes since their alchemy went from being war-orientated to medicine-orientated. A few changes doesn't cause the style of alchemy to be completely transformed. What I'm saying is that Xerxes most likely was a mix of Amestrian and Xingese Alchemy, but Xing modified theirs to focus more on medicine rather than combat like Amestrian Alchemy is.
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Old 2009-11-23, 02:10   Link #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazzy Angel View Post
I think Arakawa said in an interview that the Truth is different for each person, it is a like a mirror of that person.

But the theory for different gates? ehhh I thought that there were two gates are one was from where Ed cam i.e. the fake gate. If there were many gates then what on its other side also is different? Which would mean that each individual opening the gate gains different knowledge??

@ Yoko Takeo: I don't think Ed and Al would approve using Hohemheim. Remember Hohemheim once asked Ed if he still wanted to use the philosopher's stone they seeked for so long? Ed refused. They might be unwilling to use the energy of the souls of Xerxes.

I think Al already got back his body. Ed only have to drag/snatch his body parts from the Truth guy. Afterwards they can fight Father.

I am curious on how they will be able to win against a philosopher's stone?? Well only Arakawa can come up with a brilliant idea to wrap the last chapters beautifully.

Possible deaths: Izumi, Roy, Wrath, Pride.
Father can be sent back from where he came i.e. the other side of the gate.
The Gate is different for each person, but there's no reason to assume that they don't all open onto the same "place" (ie: grant the same knowledge). The massive similarities in Ed's, Al's, and Izumi's alchemy post-Truth suggest that.

I don't think Ed or Al's unwillingness to use the Xerxian souls will enter the equation should Hohenheim (and more importantly, those self-same souls) decide that the boys are getting their bodies back. I've got a mental picture of Hohenheim making a final valiant sacrifice to barge back into the White Room, bodily rip Ed's arm and leg off of Truth and free Al's body, and generally "run out of bubblegum" all over the place before evaporating in a cloud of spent souls and GAR. Tell me Arakawa couldn't pull it off beautifully.

Izumi will manage to make it back from Father, because if she goes out, no way it's not fighting alongside Sig. Similarly Mustang has to hang around long enough to get back to Hawkeye and see Amestris freed from Father's iron grip. Wrath's death is a given one way or another, and I don't honestly think Pride can survive once Father is taken out. I also see Greed as a likely casualty by the end, but not necessarily Ling.
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Old 2009-11-24, 06:20   Link #1119
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I don't think Ed or Al's unwillingness to use the Xerxian souls will enter the equation should Hohenheim (and more importantly, those self-same souls) decide that the boys are getting their bodies back. I've got a mental picture of Hohenheim making a final valiant sacrifice to barge back into the White Room, bodily rip Ed's arm and leg off of Truth and free Al's body, and generally "run out of bubblegum" all over the place before evaporating in a cloud of spent souls and GAR. Tell me Arakawa couldn't pull it off beautifully.
I was also thinking along those lines, though not quite so graphically
I'm also wondering if Hohenheim is going to die, considering the number of souls he has stored within him as the philosopher's stone. Would the Elric Bros really need all that energy to restore their bodies?
but I doubt Ed would think twice before using the souls of the Xerxian people. He's done it once, so he'll be able to do it again. One of the Xerxians even said thank you when he used their souls. It's more likely they want to be used for that is the only way their souls can be freed unto death.
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Old 2009-12-07, 09:42   Link #1120
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Only a few days left till 102... I don't think I've ever antecipated a FMA chapter this much. We'll finally see what the plan with the human sacrifices, which we've been hearing about for years, is all about. Literally anything could happen now.

And hopefully Arakawa will explain what exactly went on during Roy's apparent human transmutation at the end.
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