Fate/Zero - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Master_Yoma

Now that was over kill but it was just so awesome

Its like that new Fright Night movie where the vampire is genre savvy. Can't get in as the meat didn't invite you in? Burn the place down and flush them out.

As for Irisviel's driving skill. WTF she learned that playing at the Einsbern's backyard.

I remember that Fate/Kaleid Prisma Illya! chapter when Irisviel made her dynamic entry with her Mercedes. Illya was like "Mom!" in shock.

[hoarfrost]

You know, I for one really appreciate when directors flesh out their characters in a way other than the all too typical MONOLOGUE ALL YOUR INNER THOUGHTS style that anime uses. "Show don't tell" is a tried and true maxim of literature and you'd think it'd be even more important to abide by in a visual medium. I suppose some of us may have gotten a bit too used to the way things are usually done and are jarred by having to examine a character's actions and relationship with other characters as a means of interpretation, rather than having it spoonfed through a series of internal monologues.

There's plenty of detail here if you are willing to look between the lines. We see "magus killer" Emiya Kiritsugu, known to resort to terrorist actions to kill his targets, set off a fire alarm to evacuate a building before demolishing it in a way that it implodes in rather than collapsing outward, minimizing casualties. Even still, we see him get distracted several times by families with children. He could certainly have increased his chances of successfully killing Kayneth by destroying the building with no prior warning. He asks Maiya to withdraw rather than wait to confirm the body and intervenes to rescue her even though it gives away his existence to whomever she was engaging, rather than letting her be killed.

As for Kotomine, well what do we know about him so far? We know that he is described by his father as a fervent advocate of the church, but if he finds no joy in anything, then by extension we can safely say that he is unsatisfied by that. If he can decieve even his father to such a degree, then he is a complete wildcard in that no one knows just what is going on inside his head. He breaks Tokiomi's order to lay low in the church to go observe Kiritsugu's actions and is satisfied merely with seeing that Emiya Kiritsugu is not below saving a comrade in need, as his reputation would suggest. There are some details from both of these characters missing, but as they were gained in the novel through lengthy monologues, I'm assuming ufotable saw it fit to shuffle them around a bit rather than have all the characters talk at length about what makes them tick.

Lastly, if people aren't interested in this without the Rider/Waver dynamic, I don't know what to tell them. Even I didn't think that they would make Waver into such a gag character in every single scene. It's really gotten to the point where I find him detracting from the atmosphere. I doubt this is what Gen had in mind as I've never known him to write a single comedic relief character into any of his works and I didn't get that interpretation from reading the novel, but that's what Waver seems to have been reduced to. They probably thought it would balance the atmosphere, but I find that it stands out like a sore thumb compared to the maturity of virtually everything else.

TL;DR I'd rather not have F/Z turn into Guilty Crown or Mirai Nikki with stuff happening all the time just to keep the audience's senses constantly bombarded and whiny characters monologuing their stream of consciousness.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

Lastly, if people aren't interested in this without the Rider/Waver dynamic, I don't know what to tell them.

How about "expecting most of the cast to be cheerful, good natured and empathetic in a show about magicians summoning legendary warriors in order to fight each other to the death in a gruesome war is like watching a romantic comedy and complaining that there aren't many stoic and brooding characters around"?

Regardless, agreed about Waver. I was pretty fond of his character in the first two episodes, when he actually had a semblance of pathos, but since then he's consisted of nothing but crying and whining in a relatively over the top cartoony manner and his dialogue can be summed down to "RIIIDER~! BAKA!" It's a bit of a shame, though I still have faith that it's just a phase and he'll be back to having a character outside of comic relief sometime in the near future.

[PhoenixFlare]

Is it just me, or did Saber just move back "statically" to the car after getting rid of the holy virgin stalker? As in, there seems to be a problem of depth and perspective right there. Minor issue, but it was strange when it happened.

And for people finding Gilgamesh rather "different" in this episode, I wonder if it was his hairdo (see Endless Twilight's avatar for comparison).

[Haak]

I think what's different about Gilgamesh is that he's actually decided to have a proper conversation with someone for once...

[Vicious108]

Maybe the fact that he'd just consumed most of Kotomine's wine collection had something to do with it. Since he already normally acts like he's blasted, drinking actually sobers him up instead.

Seriously though, he had some in F/SN too, so only people who are new to the franchise with this anime should be all that surprised by this other facet of his.

As for the hairdo, it is indeed different, but if you were looking at anything other than those fabulous pants of his in that scene, you were doing it wrong.

[ChainLegacy]

Interesting episode, and it looks like we're seeing the foundations of the Gilgamesh-Kotomine relationship that was central to Fate/Stay Night (wtf does that name mean?). I found Caster's bit a little boring, but everything else was top notch. I like that we are getting to see how Kotomine positioned himself as the big bad down the road, as I am fuzzy on that department personally (I played the original Fate routes on visual novel, but never Fate/zero). You can also see how Emiya is the kind of person who would save Shirou, as even though he's willing to inflict great damage for his goals he still has empathy. I wonder if they will show him saving Shirou in this series, I believe that he became caught in the fire during this grail war, but am not entirely sure.

I'm still curious as to how some of these heavy hitter servants will be eliminated. I'm guessing assassination of masters will definitely be involved with Emiya, as I can't imagine all of these servants being defeated conventionally. I'm also intrigued by the 'new assassin' spawn and how he will factor in. He's probably the least interesting hero, but may be the greatest threat to Emiya's style of combat from the shadows.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

There's plenty of detail here if you are willing to look between the lines. We see "magus killer" Emiya Kiritsugu, known to resort to terrorist actions to kill his targets, set off a fire alarm to evacuate a building before demolishing it in a way that it implodes in rather than collapsing outward, minimizing casualties. Even still, we see him get distracted several times by families with children. He could certainly have increased his chances of successfully killing Kayneth by destroying the building with no prior warning. He asks Maiya to withdraw rather than wait to confirm the body and intervenes to rescue her even though it gives away his existence to whomever she was engaging, rather than letting her be killed.

Now if I remember right. At the very first episode, Kiritsugu bombed a plane that had his target onboard. He definitely did get people in the process since it would be too simple to spot otherwise, so does that mean that he has softened up?

[Fome]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Now if I remember right. At the very first episode, Kiritsugu bombed a plane that had his target onboard. He definitely did get people in the process since it would be too simple to spot otherwise, so does that mean that he has softened up?

Correction: in the first episode, Kirei alludes to Kiritsugu bombing a plane in the past. But nearly a decade has elapsed since then. Kiritsugu is no longer the man he once was. The question is, why?

[Hooves]

Maybe the time he spent with Irisviel eventually lead to him not taking up the Magi killing business. Which eventually lead to him wanting a normal life now with humanity being restored to him? Having a family of his own now, he doesn't want to risk any unnecessary casualties in the Holy Grail War.

[Miraluka]

Things that has double meaning in this episode:

By this, we concluded the Master must be japanesse.

Kirei: (Note to myself: Get 1 or 2 Assassin watching my butt every night.)

[Allium]

Good episode. I couldn't help but smile when seeing Irisviel at the wheel.

On the bit of Caster and Ryuunosuke, it looks like they've censored it by cutting "that scene" out; I actually prefer this method instead of blackening parts of the scene or pixels, it looks 'cleaner' in my opinion.

Sola's voice actor suits perfectly, and it was fun to see Kayneth getting trolled. Also, the Gilgamesh-Kirei conversation is definitely one of the highlights of the episode, where Kirei reveals his truest thoughts about his involvements in the war to Gilgamesh, the philosopher in, in the words of Endless Twilight,

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

fabulous pants

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

Even I didn't think that they would make Waver into such a gag character in every single scene. It's really gotten to the point where I find him detracting from the atmosphere.

I have to agree. Waver is pretty much 2D at Rider's side. =/ I hope that they would develop his character during the upcoming episodes.

[Yuutsu]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Fate/Stay Night (wtf does that name mean?)

Fate:

Spoiler for Fate/Stay:

Saber wants to change hers; Archer is pissed off at his.

Stay:

Spoiler for Fate/Stay:

Shirou wants Saber to stay.

Night: Most of the fighting occurs during the nighttime.


In other words, I'm spewing random BS out of my butt. : P

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Yuutsu

Fate:

Spoiler for Fate/Stay:

Saber wants to change hers; Archer is pissed off at his.

Stay:

Spoiler for Fate/Stay:

Shirou wants Saber to stay.

Night: Most of the fighting occurs during the nighttime.


In other words, I'm spewing random BS out of my butt. : P

Well thats pretty much how I always looked at it. Although I thought the Night part always refered to the night that those two first decisions had to be made (the final night). But yeah I guess it could also be as you said, every confrontation seems to happen at night.

[Last Sinner]

Ah, Caster...quite an impact you had. Book 2 material really does ramp things up.

Seriously hope that incompetent Carlo Santos didn't ruin F/Z's chances in the US with his joke of a review.

[Seihai]

Well, he clearly doesn't show enough interest in F/Z to be able to make a good, objective review. His view is fine, but many things he states don't make too much sense, if at all. Or are downright wrong.

[Sheba]

I only read the end and decided that his article is not worth the read when he stated "Fate/Zero is a spin-off". It clearly shows a lack of interest and research in the series.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Ah, Caster...quite an impact you had. Book 2 material really does ramp things up.

Seriously hope that incompetent Carlo Santos didn't ruin F/Z's chances in the US with his joke of a review.

F/Z is far from the only show to have suffered from a poor lazy review on that site. Basically Zac Bertschy is the only one approaching a writer that knows what he's doing and at least makes an effort to wrap his head around his subject or admits if he can't and it's not for him. The others think they are gods gift to reviewing though and it makes for some pretty awful reading at times.

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Interesting episode, and it looks like we're seeing the foundations of the Gilgamesh-Kotomine relationship that was central to Fate/Stay Night (wtf does that name mean?). I found Caster's bit a little boring, but everything else was top notch. I like that we are getting to see how Kotomine positioned himself as the big bad down the road, as I am fuzzy on that department personally (I played the original Fate routes on visual novel, but never Fate/zero). You can also see how Emiya is the kind of person who would save Shirou, as even though he's willing to inflict great damage for his goals he still has empathy. I wonder if they will show him saving Shirou in this series, I believe that he became caught in the fire during this grail war, but am not entirely sure.

I'm still curious as to how some of these heavy hitter servants will be eliminated. I'm guessing assassination of masters will definitely be involved with Emiya, as I can't imagine all of these servants being defeated conventionally. I'm also intrigued by the 'new assassin' spawn and how he will factor in. He's probably the least interesting hero, but may be the greatest threat to Emiya's style of combat from the shadows.

I doubt the Fate stay night name has an actual meaning. The author just wanted to come up with a cool name.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Ah, Caster...quite an impact you had. Book 2 material really does ramp things up.

Seriously hope that incompetent Carlo Santos didn't ruin F/Z's chances in the US with his joke of a review.

To be honest, anyone who lets an ANN review sway and dictate their interest in a series deserves to miss out on it.