Attack on Titan - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[lateraldeath]

Originally Posted by jeroz

The difference between not moving your facial much and moving it too much can do to your face

Maybe biting your tongue makes you age.


I wonder how old Petra is.

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by lateraldeath

Maybe biting your tongue makes you age.


I wonder how old Petra is.

Hard to know with Isayama. She might be 58

[kitten320]

^I think that would kill a lot of fanboy hearts

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by kitten320

^I think that would kill a lot of fanboy hearts

Not everyone has to be between 14 and 17.

[kitten320]

Well age between 20-30 would be fine but 58 is pretty old if you think about it.

[Lenneth4]

The chief (blonde guy) might be 40 '
Gendo girl might be 30 ' too
58' is probably the great chief we saw in the early episodes (bald guy training them)

[Haigon]

Originally Posted by kitten320

^I think that would kill a lot of fanboy hearts

Then, she's a MILF.

That is good.

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by Haigon

Then, she's a MILF.

That is good.

nope, a cougar, not a MILF

[Randrak42]

[Traece]

All of the forced feels! Except for Petra of course, who maintained some legitimate reasons to keep coming back.

I liked the part where he said that they "can't forget about their core objective!" as a justification for leaving the female titan, WHO WAS THEIR CORE OBJECTIVE. It may have been Levi's objective to protect Eren, but the mission was to capture her. Considering what happens when they get back, I bet he really wishes he had done what he was supposed to do.

Edit: Well played Levi Vampire.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Traece

All of the forced feels! Except for Petra of course, who maintained some legitimate reasons to keep coming back.

I liked the part where he said that they "can't forget about their core objective!" as a justification for leaving the female titan, WHO WAS THEIR CORE OBJECTIVE. It may have been Levi's objective to protect Eren, but the mission was to capture her. Considering what happens when they get back, I bet he really wishes he had done what he was supposed to do.

Their objective had to be trimmed considering the circumstances and the lack of information they had. That's the reason why Eren's rescue became the main objective.

They have absolutely no restraining equipement whatsoever to take care of the titan/human, and they have absolutely no luxury to push their luck into an objective that would cost even more dearly.
Trying to capture the female titan given their situation is basically suicide.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Their objective had to be trimmed considering the circumstances and the lack of information they had. That's the reason why Eren's rescue became the main objective.

They have absolutely no restraining equipement whatsoever to take care of the titan/human, and they have absolutely no luxury to push their luck into an objective that would cost even more dearly.
Trying to capture the female titan given their situation is basically suicide.

Yes but considering the state of the titan they could have killed her, or chopped her limbs off and hauled her off. Rinse and repeat until her human form has been properly restrained.

Or they could have just tried and killed her outright. Anything is better than letting it live, since it'll just end up sabotaging humanity yet again.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Traece

Yes but considering the state of the titan they could have killed her, or chopped her limbs off and hauled her off. Rinse and repeat until her human form has been properly restrained.

Or they could have just tried and killed her outright. Anything is better than letting it live, since it'll just end up sabotaging humanity yet again.

Except that they have no clear information how long the FT could last.
Meanwhile, Levi has witnessed firsthand the abilities of the FT, as well as the potential danger it could deal since she could dispose of his squad members despite substaining so many damage from the capture attempts and the chase. Levi had only Mikasa at his disposal, and however strong she may be, she has little battle experience and never practiced with him.

Levi realized that he has no clear idea of the limits of the human controlling the FT (Erwing admitted their mistakes that they based their assumptions with Eren's case, and FT arguably betrayed these expectations sky high, in term of control, stamina, mobility, strength and active time).
What's worse is that Levi, however powerful he can be, is limited to his gear. And note that he had to expand his gas reserve to avoid FT attacks and deal enough damage to incapacitate her a bit, which arguably means he wouldn't be able to keep going with these stunts long. The same can be said to his blades: as long as the FT has its armor skin, there is no way for him to break through with only 5 pairs of steel blades at his disposal.
While his ressource are finite, there is absolutely nothing that can attest that the human piloting the FT couldn't pull another stunt. Hell, what if the said human would follow up with a 3D gear battle, at Levi's huge disadvantage due to his ankle and gas limitation?

Retreat was the sound choice, considering that attempting to finish her off could lead to even more casualties. And Levi knows full well He and Mikasa have to survive for everyone's sake.

[Veviticus]

And while it may look like she's run out of energy when they rescued eren, she might have just given up on chasing them knowing full well she can't match the speed of the 3DMG but still be capable of fighting.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

*snip*

I agree. It's not as if it's not a risk to take such actions, though the FT in her current state is clearly quite vulnerable no matter what gauge is used. Between him and Mikasa, I have no doubt that they could easily kill the pilot of the already immobilized FT. Unless of course they decide to write-in some magical ability for her to ignore the massive amount of damage and fatigue she's incurred over time, and her muscles being carved out so she can't move her body. Yes she can armor her skin, but since they can carve large pieces of titans out of them I wouldn't be surprised if they could decapitate it altogether with enough tag teaming. As far as I remember they still suspected she would be unable to move once removed from her FT just like Eren, since that also went to explain why it took so long for her to reappear. Personally I see no reason why the FT would be able to put up a serious fight after all of this, especially with her having been physically limited by her wounds. Honestly, if she can still put up just as much fight now as before it becomes an issue with the writing.

It's a hard choice to make, and I'm not saying that he made the wrong choice as much as he made the choice that had the most consequences. Killing her or trying to capture her horribly maimed human form is the smart choice. It's the choice that saves their asses and means that they didn't go out and waste their time, resources, and people on a goose chase where the goose is actually a dragon with a laser on its head. The unsurprising aftermath that they knew would happen if they failed is that they're discredited and stripped of their trump card. It's also conveniently the card that makes this series last a whole season of episodes longer I'm sure.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Traece

I agree. It's not as if it's not a risk to take such actions, though the FT in her current state is clearly quite vulnerable no matter what gauge is used. Between him and Mikasa, I have no doubt that they could easily kill the pilot of the already immobilized FT. Unless of course they decide to write-in some magical ability for her to ignore the massive amount of damage and fatigue she's incurred over time, and her muscles being carved out so she can't move her body. Yes she can armor her skin, but since they can carve large pieces of titans out of them I wouldn't be surprised if they could decapitate it altogether with enough tag teaming. As far as I remember they still suspected she would be unable to move once removed from her FT just like Eren, since that also went to explain why it took so long for her to reappear.

Such assumptions are exactly what it costed them dearly in this situation:
Erwin's plan was flawed from the very premise that human piloting titans would be on the same foothold as Eren's. It was proven wrong from the fact the one behind FT could evade them even though she got captured at some point.
Like I mentioned, Levi doesn't have unlimited gas nor blades, so he -won't- be able to cut through FT's flesh indefinitely: the very moment he cannot move with his 3D gear, he is dead meat. And judging from Levi's stunts, he probably wouldn't last long at all (Mikasa managed to expand her gas tank during Trost battle, on a long run but arguably not pushing her gas reserve until when she went reckless after learning Eren's "death". And trust me, Levi's actions were arguably more gas heavy than any of her actions thus far).
Hell, even if he manages to defeat FT this way, the return trip will be hell since they would have to regroup with everyone else in a awkward fashion (while tons of titans are still there).
Also, making a makeshift tag team with someone like Mikasa who is solely solo with little battle experience is a very very foolish idea, especially against an unknown enemy.

Also, you seem to forget that the FT can attract titans around her, which means that if they can't pin her down with appropriate manpower AND equipments while being sure no other titans would interfere, it is meaningless because she can just run away by using titans as decoy.

It's a hard choice to make, and I'm not saying that he made the wrong choice as much as he made the choice that had the most consequences. Killing her or trying to capture her horribly maimed human form is the smart choice. It's the choice that saves their asses and means that they didn't go out and waste their time, resources, and people on a goose chase where the goose is actually a dragon with a laser on its head. The unsurprising aftermath that they knew would happen if they failed is that they're discredited and stripped of their trump card. It's also conveniently the card that makes this series last a whole season of episodes longer I'm sure.

That's the risk they have gone through willingly. That said, the situation called for "fold" no matter how you look at it: the risk given in their situation was way too great to push their luck, especially that it was basically all or nothing.
At the very least, they could cut their loss, despite the danger could have lead to a complete party wipe. Given the circumstances, they bite off more they could chew, but avoided the worst.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Like I mentioned, Levi doesn't have unlimited gas nor blades, so he -won't- be able to cut through FT's flesh: the very moment he cannot move with his 3D gear, he is dead meat. Hell, even if he manages to defeat FT this way, the return trip will be hell since they would have to regroup with everyone else in a awkward fashion (while tons of titans are still there).

This is true for the most part. Blades I suspect would be more of an issue here, since there's not a real clear indication of how much gas he has left. This is one of the issues with AoT, that the dwindling of resources tends to be more convenient than realistic. They refueled somewhat recently, so I could see him going on gas long enough. In the case of the FT they're a bit better with breaking blades, and so even if he used Mikasa's they would probably run out without some great planning to avoid that issue. As you said, Mikasa's more of a solo than a team player.

That's the risk they have gone through willingly. That said, the situation called for "fold" no matter how you look at it: the risk given in their situation was way too great to push their luck, especially that it was basically all or nothing.

Fair enough. Again, it's the riskier choice. It's the choice that I tend to choose in such precarious situations, and it pays off for me. Levi and Mikasa probably wouldn't be able to pull it off without consequence, and frankly if humanity actually succeeded at anything it wouldn't be very consistent with the rest of this series.

I suppose I have to agree here, then.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Traece

This is true for the most part. Blades I suspect would be more of an issue here, since there's not a real clear indication of how much gas he has left. This is one of the issues with AoT, that the dwindling of resources tends to be more convenient than realistic. They refueled somewhat recently, so I could see him going on gas long enough. In the case of the FT they're ab it better with breaking blades, and so even if he used Mikasa's they would probably run out without some great planning to avoid that issue. As you said, Mikasa's more of a solo than a team player.

Actually, the series did a good job reminding that ressource is as important as mobility for the soldiers in Shingeki. And I really don't know how they could portray gas left for the characters onscreen besides being overly intrusive with the presentation of the scenes.
That being said, trost battle arc can give a good idea what actually cost more in term of gas, which was illustrated with Mikasa using multiple long burst of gas after her reckless speech.

Levi and Mikasa probably wouldn't be able to pull it off without consequence, and frankly if humanity actually succeeded at anything it wouldn't be very consistent with the rest of this series.

It isn't really an issue in term of the rest of the series as in "achieving something" since... it wasn't really in vain (confirmation of the assesment there are more "human titans", spy being present, special titans characteristics being more various they would expect etc).
But really it is a matter of humanity as a whole: either, you
1) bet on the possibility of vainquish a strong titan without any guarantee not to lose two of their best soldiers (arguably the only ones that can make the difference now that Petra & co died) nor the guarantee there aren't even more of them later on (and what I mean is: if there are more than just the colossal, armored and female titan out of the wild).

2) fall back with their best individuals alive who can also testify information and use their experience, allowing preparations for a better plan in the future.

Option n°1 benefits absolutely don't offset the obvious grave risks and losses. If we were to add morale damage because of that... that would be devastating.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Actually, the series did a good job reminding that ressource is as important as mobility for the soldiers in Shingeki. And I really don't know how they could portray gas left for the characters onscreen besides being overly intrusive with the presentation of the scenes.
That being said, trost battle arc can give a good idea what actually cost more in term of gas, which was illustrated with Mikasa using multiple long burst of gas after her reckless speech.

In Trost they did a good job of setting up that issue, by actually addressing it repeatedly. They reminded us from time to time that they were running low on gas. In this case it hasn't really come up (especially since they've mostly been on horseback). Levi and Mikasa have mostly been idle up until recently, or riding on horseback. Their only gas expense has been travel up until they started fighting the FT. Whether that gas used to take her down was a lot or not, well, that depends on whether or not they want it to be. It's not their fault that resources haven't really been brought up in this case, because they haven't been using them for the most part. That's why I neglected to think about it, because it wasn't really relevant until this discussion gauged their potential combat ability.

[erhyka]

Why was Levi surprised after realizing that it was Mikasa while they were going after the female titan? It just struck me as a bit odd, I thought he knew she was in the survey corps after seeing her call him a midget.