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Old 2011-04-12, 16:32   Link #221
Fluegel
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I doubt Kyrie....or rather anyone on earth would have hard time against Hayate. Even 10-15 years later Hayate. Much less still crippled rookie Hayate.

And DAT Pose. Had to be done.

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Old 2011-04-12, 19:45   Link #222
Justin_Brett
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I really hate how people always exaggerate that. That scene where Hayate thinks anyone could beat her was clearly her overblowing it, given the comedic tone of that chapter.

Besides, why would they give a rival to Hayate that she couldn't actually fight properly?
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Old 2011-04-12, 20:17   Link #223
00-Raiser
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Not really. Hayate's a powerful mage with powerful spells, but said spells require long casting times and she's left defenseless while preparing. In a one on one fight anyone could fly right up to her and get a shot in. Even if she defended if you keep the pressure on her she'd never get a spell off. That's why she has 4 guardian knights and 2 unison devices to cover her.

Anyways, what sticks out to me is how bad the character models are in those images. Particularly the faces.
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Old 2011-04-12, 20:19   Link #224
SilentOutlaw
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We're talking about Battle of Aces!Hayate here, she's about 10x more badass then normal Hayate.
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Old 2011-04-12, 21:22   Link #225
Justin_Brett
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I never really understood what was stopping her from just creating spells that were easier to cast.

And I don't see it, personally.
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Old 2011-04-12, 23:29   Link #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOutlaw View Post
We're talking about Battle of Aces!Hayate here, she's about 10x more badass then normal Hayate.
Yeah! she's the girl that defeated the White Devil!
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Old 2011-04-13, 08:14   Link #227
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Originally Posted by SilentOutlaw View Post
We're talking about Battle of Aces!Hayate here, she's about 10x more badass then normal Hayate.
Damn, you beat me to it. ):
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Old 2011-04-13, 08:59   Link #228
dahak
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I never really understood what was stopping her from just creating spells that were easier to cast.
She has spells that shouldn't need incantations. The problem is she lacks the fine control to use them and her power level makes it difficult to learn it.

A bit like asking the Incredible Hulk to do embroidery.
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Old 2011-04-13, 14:09   Link #229
Justin_Brett
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Or like someone who knows calculus being unable to do 2 + 2, really.

Does that explain why she has crap for defense? Shields don't seem like they really require finesse at all.
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Old 2011-04-13, 14:16   Link #230
Keroko
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Talent. Or lack of it in Hayate's case. Spell A is not spell B, and just as someone can utterly suck at drawing but be a magnificent musician, someone can make very big bangs but suck at casting defensive spells.

Yeah, it's a crappy excuse, but that's what we got.
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Old 2011-04-13, 14:36   Link #231
Akiyoshi
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It's an excuse meant to prevent Hayate from curbstomping everyone and their grandmas into submision with that gargantuan powers of hers xDU.
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Old 2011-04-13, 15:26   Link #232
DezoPenguin
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Does she actually have crap for defense, though? In the latest Force, Curren attacked her from by surprise, so Hayate had no chance to cast any shielding spells--and unlike Nanoha, Fate, etc., she does not have an Intelligent Device, so she wouldn't get the benefit of "automatic" defenses cast by the Device.
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Old 2011-04-13, 18:35   Link #233
Justin_Brett
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I guess it could be something people inferred from other information, even if it didn't outright state that. Saying Caro could beat you without summoning certainly does imply that, even if she would probably need Fried to properly attack her.

Hell, I read a fanfic that said an ordinary rifle could get past her defenses, so it's certainly a fairly wide belief.
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Old 2011-04-13, 18:38   Link #234
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A rifle shot getting past is something I find unlikely. Personally, I feel that Hayate stating that Caro could defeat her doesn't necessarily mean that her defensive capabilities are weak (though they probably are), but that she's unable to keep up in an actual fight, and someone like Caro could just whittle her down without much effort, defense or no.
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Old 2011-04-14, 00:12   Link #235
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Hayate said that Caro would be the only one she could take in a fight, but then she remembered that Caro is being trained by Nanoha, so Hayate would be screwed after all.

Anyways, that's just Hayate's role. She's not meant to be charging the front lines by herself. She's meant to hang back, give orders, and provide heavy fire support.
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Old 2011-04-14, 01:02   Link #236
Justin_Brett
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Which I still think she was exaggerating a little. Caro can't even fly.

And I'd be fine with that if they actually gave her good scenes revolving around those attributes. They had that subplot thing with Regius, but that kind of petered out, and the times she's used a big spell on enemies, they just got away anyway. But we should probably take this to one of the manga threads at this point.
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Old 2011-04-14, 10:58   Link #237
Tiresias
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Which I still think she was exaggerating a little. Caro can't even fly.
Yes, it's amazing how people tend to forget the huge tactical advantages of flight. Incidentally, it's probably the reason why the game would never feature the Forwards, since none of them are capable of independent flight. A massive power creep/seep will be needed for game balance purpose just to make sure the dragon rider/rocket lancer/rollerblader/air platform marksman could keep up with the air mages. Why yes, I'm still bitter at how Nanoha, an air mage, has no notable flight-capable student.
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Old 2011-04-14, 11:12   Link #238
Justin_Brett
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Bah, she wanted a challenge.
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Old 2011-04-14, 13:15   Link #239
Akiyoshi
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Talking about that, it would be nice to have legitimate evidence of the Yagami-ke famed status as an amazing Fighting Team, everyone in ViVid talks about how strong they are as a team but that's never showed onscreen. Hayate wil get her chance to shine as a capable field commander/heavy fire support once she manage to pull off the entire Wolkenritter in a battle which is supposedly the way the are most effective in combat.

For the moment their incredible teamwork performance is only an informed ability.
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Old 2011-04-14, 15:48   Link #240
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I guess Subaru and Ginga could be included in flight-based games with their Wing Road ability.
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