Rewrite & Harvest Festa

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Aspirety

Spoiler for Akane and Shizuru:

Is it really that inconsistent though? I always thought that the differences in Salvation were because in Shizuru, it was an uninterrupted, perfect salvation. In Akane it was more of an imperfect salvation orchestrated by Akane, which explains the differences. I think the pure form of Salvation has no suffering, just being absorbed by light. The vegetation came after.

Spoiler for Answer:

Remember that all of those happen in branch worlds, and it means the form of Salvation itself can have so many possibilities too. At least, that's what I interpreted (the answer like writers inconsistencies is valid too in this case....)

Also, another question.

Spoiler for Moon:

Why and how did Kotarou materialize in the moon garden?

Spoiler for Answer:

He was sent by Kashima Sakura to interfere/kill Moon-Kagari. Though this is not stated, all source of life came from Aurora so it's pretty much what materialized Kotarou in the Moon. Who knows how Kashima Sakura suddenly have the ability to manipulate Aurora to that extent.

After he declared challenge and refused Kashima Sakura's order, he can't re-materialize again.

[Aspirety]

Both of those answers to my fourth question just leave me with more questions...
I understand that he was meant to protect Kagari, but that's a bit of a non-answer. If Rewrite's precedence is anything to go by, then there has to be some kind of force or will that lead Kotarou there. Just "because he had to" isn't much of an answer here.

@Kirayuki, Kashima sent him? Where's the evidence of that? When Kashima sent a familiar to investigate the world, that familiar was surprised by Kotarou's presence. That to me is critical evidence against that theory.

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Well personally I just liked Kotarou's version of those routes, he was so much more mature and cooler than in any other route where he's either a standard teenager or a generic shounen action hero.
His relationship with Akane (and the fact that I love Akane) helped a lot.
There's also awesome side-characters (Esaka, Shimako, Tsukuno, Luis, etc) and intriguing plots that kept me hooked.

I see, so it sounds like the prevaiiling emotion that you felt was admiration or emphathizing with the same emotions of your favorite characters. That's interesting because I never felt that those characters were ever much of a plus or minus in their routes. That's also ironic because I felt that the scenes of violence (Instead of the characters in your case of the routes you favored less.) in these routes were much more gratuitous and therefore juvenile. I think arguably all of the fight scenes in the game were juvenile, except maybe Kotori's route which was much more suspenseful with some terror, which I really enjoyed. At least in Chihaya's route the fighting matched the tone of the rest of the route, which is probably why I enjoyed it so much, it just felt so natural there. I think I agree that outside of the fighting that the Akane and Terra routes had a more mature tone, but that really conflicted with the fighting that seemed really drawn out and chuuni-ish. Am I getting that right? Or did you guys feel amped up during the fight scenes as well? Maybe the fight scenes are a lot easier to ignore when you can fly by them, eheh.

[Von Himmel]

Akane and Terra felt so dragged out without ever getting to a point... I am really curious as to what emotions you guys felt during these routes

Spoiler:

Eh for me I just like how Kotarou deals with all the problems in that route. Not to mention that his relationship with Akane is pretty good.. I mean, I just like that kind of relationship. There's also the fact that Akane was told to be responsible for what she'd done. I like how she didn't immediately change to a strong woman and accept her sins, she was shown scared to take responsibility until the end. I also like how Kotarou tried to help her by walking beside her.. that is to say, by saying about his involvement with Gaia.

And that ending seems to say that both of them will walk together while holding the burdens of their sins. I don't know.. it's pretty sweet for me

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Aspirety

@Kirayuki, Kashima sent him? Where's the evidence of that? When Kashima sent a familiar to investigate the world, that familiar was surprised by Kotarou's presence. That to me is critical evidence against that theory.

It is not theory, It was already stated plain clear in the game by Kotarou itself, I think you are missing some lines here. You should try read again starting from the part where there was one familiar trying to attack Kagari until the part where Kotarou talk to himself in the forest.

Spoiler for Answer:

That and you should note that Kotarou suddenly let the familiar went past him unconsciously, he concluded that somehow his body purposely allow Kagari to be almost killed.

It's because his existence was still tied to Kashima Sakura's order, which is why he tried to cut that connection and resulting in unable to re-materialize again after dying.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Ceral

I see, so it sounds like the prevaiiling emotion that you felt was admiration or emphathizing with the same emotions of your favorite characters. That's interesting because I never felt that those characters were ever much of a plus or minus in their routes. That's also ironic because I felt that the scenes of violence (Instead of the characters in your case of the routes you favored less.) in these routes were much more gratuitous and therefore juvenile. I think arguably all of the fight scenes in the game were juvenile, except maybe Kotori's route which was much more suspenseful with some terror, which I really enjoyed. At least in Chihaya's route the fighting matched the tone of the rest of the route, which is probably why I enjoyed it so much, it just felt so natural there. I think I agree that outside of the fighting that the Akane and Terra routes had a more mature tone, but that really conflicted with the fighting that seemed really drawn out and chuuni-ish. Am I getting that right? Or did you guys feel amped up during the fight scenes as well? Maybe the fight scenes are a lot easier to ignore when you can fly by them, eheh.

Spoiler for All routes:

Actually the fighting in Terra and Akane routes was quite good for me, it went along well with the route's more mature nature.
I've said it before plenty of times but Chihaya's Route felt like a cliche (but still good) shounen battle anime. Kotarou felt more like a typical shounen hero, getting ever so stronger as he fights enemies, all the while never killing anyone directly.
Akane and Terra had much more brutal and serious battles, killing is natural in those situations and sometimes necessary. Also sure they had powers but they ARE superhumans and even their powers were done tastefully, no mega-beams from hell dragonball style just people with heightened human abilities in serious battles.
And the way Kotarou handled it all, he didn't just suddenly became a cold hearted killer, he struggled with it all and it wasn't easy...that was a very good experience to read.

[Ceral]

I am re-reading this, when you have to look up words and have to focus on the meaning of each sentence and have time to, it really brings out the cheesiness in some of the lines. In English it's a quick glimpse and cheesy lines are easy to ignore. Just a funny observation.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Aspirety

Okay guys! Just finished Rewrite and I'm kinda struggling to come to peace with the ending.

Spoiler for Endgame spoilers:

It feels like all the time spent on the common and heroine routes was worthless.
But my problem with Terra is that it felt so strangely disconnected from the rest of the series.
like he's a puppet on strings lead to fulfil the conditions required to save the Earth.

All of these things are very true, yes. (Which is why I would prefer that an anime focus more on setting up Moon/Terra, but disagreements.)

Spoiler for Terra:

I would also say that Kotarou isn't looking for happiness, but for a purpose. He wants to accomplish something that truly matters.
I would argue that he does.

Originally Posted by Aspirety

Spoiler for More endgame spoilers~:

First, I keep hearing everyone here say how Terra is set millions of years after Moon. I get that Moon happens after the world has ended, but how can Terra be after Moon? I thought it was an alternative prequel to the common route. This shit makes no sense to me.

Why do so many people have trouble with this?

Spoiler for Moon/Terra:

You are literally told flat-out at the end of Moon that all the Aurora on the moon is flooding back to a dead Earth to re-seed it with life, giving humanity one last chance to start over. Kagari even tells Kotarou that he's about to embark on a million-year-journey through re-evolution.

This isn't hard, goddamn.

Originally Posted by Ceral

That's also ironic because I felt that the scenes of violence in these routes were much more gratuitous and therefore juvenile.

Uh, that's. What.
That's really dumb and kind of insane, I'm sorry. Gratuitous violence is automatically juvenile? That's entirely dependent on presentation, it has nothing to do with the violence itself.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

All of these things are very true, yes. (Which is why I would prefer that an anime focus more on setting up Moon/Terra, but disagreements.)

Spoiler for Terra:

I would also say that Kotarou isn't looking for happiness, but for a purpose. He wants to accomplish something that truly matters.
I would argue that he does.

Spoiler for Terra:

I agree, in TERRA it does look like he's searching for a purpose more than happiness, but not in the heroine routes though. However this could always be Kotori's influence like mentioned in her route, he is her familiar and he's completely different from his original self, mentally.

And I'm pretty sure by the end of Terra, Kotarou does find his purpose and accomplish something that matters. It's thanks to him that the world came to know about super-humans and summoners allowing people to use that knowledge to survive the catastrophic state that the Earth was left in. Also his actions directly influenced the end of the war between Gaia and Guardian. Oh yea...and he stopped the final Re-evolution from completing.
Not to mention that in the end he becomes a familiar with the ability of unlimited rewrite and can take humans to other planets with enough energy so they can continue to survive.

[Kirayuki]

I had this crazy idea

Spoiler for All Rewrite:

What would happen if Sakuya still exist in Terra and "Gattai" with Moon-Kagari to have the 2nd "Spaceship" ?

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

I had this crazy idea

Spoiler for All Rewrite:

What would happen if Sakuya still exist in Terra and "Gattai" with Moon-Kagari to have the 2nd "Spaceship" ?

Spoiler for Terra:

ALL THE REWRITES!
though how useful would it be considering it would still need energy from the same source?

BTW...didn't Sakuya talk to Kotarou at the end of Terra?

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Spoiler for Terra:

ALL THE REWRITES!
though how useful would it be considering it would still need energy from the same source?

BTW...didn't Sakuya talk to Kotarou at the end of Terra?

Spoiler for Answer:

As long as there is sufficient number of people who make a contract with him, I think that can work. However, I'm not sure how much the capabilities it can do like the Pochi version

Yes, Sakuya somehow gave a call to Kotarou a bit in the end of Terra. But that was more about "passing the baton" thing, Sakuya is pretty much confirmed to have his existences finished during the Moon (because that's where all version of so many Sakuyas from various branch world converged as one).

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Uh, that's. What.
That's really dumb and kind of insane, I'm sorry. Gratuitous violence is automatically juvenile? That's entirely dependent on presentation, it has nothing to do with the violence itself.

Yes, by definition gratuitous means it's there for no reason or justification. Violence for no reason is insane. Note I'm not saying I think juvenile is bad, heck I said Chihaya's route was one of my favorites. I may very well enjoy gratuitous violence more than anyone in this thread, but when it becomes so obvious violence is there just for kicks and a violent scene only has whatever aura the writer could muster of enriching the plot, then it is "much more" gratuitous. And yes, I would argue that watching or reading violent acts that are done without meaning and deriving pleasure from it is something that's more associated with younger people or immaturity.

Spoiler for What routes I thought had gratuitous violence:

By far the worst offender was Lucia's route, I wrote 50 pages back or so how I thought that fight scene with Shizuru did nothing but re-hash feellings felt from the end of the date scene, I thought that it felt like it was thrown in there just because Ryukishi07 had some criteria VisualArts put on him that his route needed to have an action scene! Akane's route felt guilty of it to, but I'm going to re-read the route. Both Akane and Terra's routes had action scenes that felt like they took forever, maybe I'm wrong but surely you don't need so much violence that you bore some readers, that seems gratuitous too.

I'm still trying to pinpoint what feelings you guys had who enjoyed Akane and Terra routes. I understand you guys felt it was meaningful and that you liked the characters, but it sounds as if not a whole lot of emotion was involved, only that you guys were curious and enjoyed the way the plot was going?

Gratuitous violence is insane, but what makes violence gratuitous is up to the reader and how they interpret the material. As much as I like Rewrite now, I don't think I can deny that it had a lot of gratuitous violence.

TLDR: Juveniles tend to like gratuitous things, yes.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ceral

Yes, by definition gratuitous means it's there for no reason or justification.

Ah, that's what you meant. People tend to use that term to mean "extreme violence", so I became confused.
In that case I don't think that any of the violence in Rewrite is gratuitous. It mostly serves the purpose of shifting or setting mood.

Originally Posted by Ceral

Ryukishi07 had some criteria VisualArts put on him that his route needed to have an action scene!

Just checking... you have read his other works, right?

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Ah, that's what you meant. People tend to use that term to mean "extreme violence", so I became confused.
In that case I don't think that any of the violence in Rewrite is gratuitous. It mostly serves the purpose of shifting or setting mood.

Just checking... you have read his other works, right?

Yea good point, I only read a little Higurashi but understand he does like to have some characters come on suddenly and violently. I dunno how violent scenes contribute in his other works toward meaning in the endings, but I guess a character turning psycho killer is sort of his MO :P.

Spoiler for Lucia's Route:

I thought the Shizuru fight was the most gratuitous of all. Not just the situation but even the dialogue is gratuitous. Seriously you could just scrap that scene and carry out the argument in Kazamo with Lucia just fine with just about the same mood. I think it may have even hurt the mood, as the scene on the rooftop was a much more serious one. If you liked that scene, I am of the opinion that you just wanted to see those two fight or have some appreciation for how fight scenes are written. Seriously, there are better ways to help a friend out than shooting her. Even if you want to twist it and say that was the only way she could have helped, the way the scene was written, it was like it was trying to be sensational, when I think a lot of readers were just trying to understand Lucia's feelings. I thought it conflicted with the main plot about love, but I guess that's how Rewrite characters show love for eachother, by beating eachother up.

[Magicflier]

Can someone fill me in on what the difference is between Rewrite and Rewrite Harvest?

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Ceral

Yes, by definition gratuitous means it's there for no reason or justification. Violence for no reason is insane. Note I'm not saying I think juvenile is bad, heck I said Chihaya's route was one of my favorites. I may very well enjoy gratuitous violence more than anyone in this thread, but when it becomes so obvious violence is there just for kicks and a violent scene only has whatever aura the writer could muster of enriching the plot, then it is "much more" gratuitous. And yes, I would argue that watching or reading violent acts that are done without meaning and deriving pleasure from it is something that's more associated with younger people or immaturity.

Spoiler for What routes I thought had gratuitous violence:

By far the worst offender was Lucia's route, I wrote 50 pages back or so how I thought that fight scene with Shizuru did nothing but re-hash feellings felt from the end of the date scene, I thought that it felt like it was thrown in there just because Ryukishi07 had some criteria VisualArts put on him that his route needed to have an action scene! Akane's route felt guilty of it to, but I'm going to re-read the route. Both Akane and Terra's routes had action scenes that felt like they took forever, maybe I'm wrong but surely you don't need so much violence that you bore some readers, that seems gratuitous too.

I'm still trying to pinpoint what feelings you guys had who enjoyed Akane and Terra routes. I understand you guys felt it was meaningful and that you liked the characters, but it sounds as if not a whole lot of emotion was involved, only that you guys were curious and enjoyed the way the plot was going?

Gratuitous violence is insane, but what makes violence gratuitous is up to the reader and how they interpret the material. As much as I like Rewrite now, I don't think I can deny that it had a lot of gratuitous violence.

TLDR: Juveniles tend to like gratuitous things, yes.

Spoiler for All routes:

We clearly have very different definitions of what we consider necessary and unnecessary fights. To me the fights in the Akane and Terra route not only felt natural but also had perfect lengths, while in turn I felt that the fights in the Chihaya and Lucia routes dragged on a bit.
They felt more real and gritty, not to mention that they carried a lot more emotion for me than any of the fights in the Chihaya route, I actually felt for Kotarou and his position and worried for him, eventhough I knew he'd survive cause...lolMC. To be perfectly honest, of those two routes the only one I felt dragged on a bit two much was the final one against Suzaki's familiarized secretary who's name I can't remember (Tsukumo?). That dragged on a bit but even then it wasn't much.

And well...if you don't feel the same way let's agree to disagree because these things aren't something you can have explained to you and magically you feel the same way.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ceral

Yea good point, I only read a little Higurashi but understand he does like to have some characters come on suddenly and violently.

Er, no, that's not what I meant. Umineko is filled with fight scenes of that kind, I highly doubt that VisualArts put any sort of requirement on what he was supposed to write.

Originally Posted by Ceral

Spoiler for Lucia's Route:

If you liked that scene, I am of the opinion that you just wanted to see those two fight or have some appreciation for how fight scenes are written.

I personally thought that scene was incredibly entertaining due to Lucia's extreme angst and really a joy to read especially considering that the other fight scenes in the game don't have near that level of presentation.

Originally Posted by Magicflier

Can someone fill me in on what the difference is between Rewrite and Rewrite Harvest?

Harvest Festa is a fandisc with short bonus scenarios for each heroine, as well as an RPG minigame called "Rewrite Quest".

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Magicflier

Can someone fill me in on what the difference is between Rewrite and Rewrite Harvest?

Harvest just has some side stories and ties up some loose ends in some of the epilogues in the original. Harvest Festa doesn't have any of the material in Rewrite, so you need to read Rewrite first. Harvest Festa is a fan disc, a bonus for the fans of the original, not a whole lot of new content. It has a RPG that plays like a bit like an endless dragon quest dungeon too.

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Spoiler for All routes:

We clearly have very different definitions of what we consider necessary and unnecessary fights. To me the fights in the Akane and Terra route not only felt natural but also had perfect lengths, while in turn I felt that the fights in the Chihaya and Lucia routes dragged on a bit.
They felt more real and gritty, not to mention that they carried a lot more emotion for me than any of the fights in the Chihaya route, I actually felt for Kotarou and his position and worried for him, eventhough I knew he'd survive cause...lolMC. To be perfectly honest, of those two routes the only one I felt dragged on a bit two much was the final one against Suzaki's familiarized secretary who's name I can't remember (Tsukumo?). That dragged on a bit but even then it wasn't much.

And well...if you don't feel the same way let's agree to disagree because these things aren't something you can have explained to you and magically you feel the same way.

I see, that's true that the Romeo Tanakas fights felt more like descriptions of real life brawls whereas Chihaya's felt like reading a shonen manga. I really liked the flowery style of the latter though, I felt I got lost in the much more fantastic descriptions, I'd get giddy too. Also reading in Japanese makes things feel more mysterious to me though :P. Tanaka's fights I would just keep wishing for them to end so I could see some plot development though! I'd imagine that being fluent in your chosen language you could just click through those fights as soon as messages popped up without feeling like you might have missed something. It's cool I just wanted to evaluate my reading comprehension in Japanese, maybe try and understand what gets lost in translation too.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Er, no, that's not what I meant. Umineko is filled with fight scenes of that kind, I highly doubt that VisualArts put any sort of requirement on what he was supposed to write.

I personally thought that scene was incredibly entertaining due to Lucia's extreme angst and really a joy to read especially considering that the other fight scenes in the game don't have near that level of presentation.

Lucia's route felt like the most typical of a galge character route though, if you read from the start of the common route to the end of Lucia's route, you'd get this sudden explosion of a full on action scene at the very end. Is that typical? I ask because I didn't read any Umineko and am curious.

Spoiler for Lucia's route:

Man, that's sort of sadistic that you'd find poor Lucias' angst entertaining . And that level of presentation is part what bothers me, the other routes have fight scenes throughout, I liked the transition from Ghost Story to Love Story to Angsty Love Story, but the eruption of the fight scene at the end, with so much flash at the end was unexpected, and didn't really fit I thought. I mean I was just getting used to Lucia's dere side, then something bad happens, then boom we're trying to imitate an action movie, it was crazy. Just bringing in all the special effects in, when I read that ,I was like "WTF am I reading?" the whole time I watched that scene But maybe it's not so bad, maybe I'm just too attached to Lucia moe.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ceral

Lucia's route felt like the most typical of a galge character route though, if you read from the start of the common route to the end of Lucia's route, you'd get this sudden explosion of a full on action scene at the very end. Is that typical? I ask because I didn't read any Umineko and am curious.

This really isn't a good example, but here.
The fight at the end of Lucia's route reads pretty much exactly like his typical fight scenes... that said, I was expecting something like it so I wasn't that surprised by it.
No offense, but your negative impression of the fight scenes seems to be mostly be a result of your difficulty with the language...