AMV vs MAD

[Kirarakim]

I still dont see how that makes MADs and AMVs different because there are plenty of western parodies and mash ups.

And no they don't have to be for anime just look at all the videos out there for My Little pony. They don't have to be all animated, there are plenty of these type of videos for live action series too. They might not be called AMVs but it's all the same thing.

[Kyuu]

Hey. In the English language, we're already being idiots for distinguishing:

Manga vs Non-Manga

Anime vs Non-Anime

JRPG vs RPG

There's just this general obsession with Japan vs Not-Japan.

To push MAD vs AMV -- that's really pushing it. And I'm glad that any distinction here has no basis for separation. If you gather a random assortment of things labeled MAD and AMV -- and they're of similar quality (especially the good ones), it's really really hard to tell the difference anyways.

[Triple_R]

Yeah, I think Raiga is right about MADs vs. AMVs.

When I think MADs, I just think "Mash-up videos involving anime". The mash-up in question may or may not involve music (or at the very least, it may include more than music alone).

When I think AMVs, I think "Clips of an anime show done to a specific song". It definitely does involve music.


So I would say that all AMVs are technically MADs, but not all MADs are AMVs.

Most AMVs I would think of as AMVs first, and MADs second. The one exception being when somebody takes Anime X and does it to the OP song of Anime Y, going so far as to bring it altogether with the overall visual style of the OP of Anime Y. A good example of what I mean here is this.

That just feels more like a MAD than an AMV to me.


Anyway, I like both MADs and AMVs. Both can be a lot of fun!

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

When I think MADs, I just think "Mash-up videos involving anime".

Then stuff like this... they're just simple videos. We'd probably be able to find some "English equivalent" stuff within YouTube, except we don't particularly have a name for those, nor do we actually care.

I mean, look... here's another example of a mash-up video involving anime.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Don't make me bring out Over 9000 too

[Ithekro]

AMV Hell....all versions, dispute claims that everything involves music....or anime.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Then stuff like this... they're just simple videos. We'd probably be able to find some "English equivalent" stuff within YouTube, except we don't particularly have a name for those, nor do we actually care.

Of course there are non-Japanese videos that parallel the non-music MADs. I simply wanted to clarify terminology use. It's hard to have a discussion when the same word means different things to different people.

So what are we discussing in here? Western AMVs versus AMV-like Japanese MADs? Or AMVs in general, vs the broader realm of fan-made derivative works (usually video) known as MADs? When we say AMV are we talking about strictly Anime Music Videos? Or does "AMV" include mashups?

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Hey. In the English language, we're already being idiots for distinguishing:

Manga vs Non-Manga

Anime vs Non-Anime

JRPG vs RPG

There's just this general obsession with Japan vs Not-Japan.

To push MAD vs AMV -- that's really pushing it. And I'm glad that any distinction here has no basis for separation. If you gather a random assortment of things labeled MAD and AMV -- and they're of similar quality (especially the good ones), it's really really hard to tell the difference anyways.

What you don't seem to realize, or rather, are ignoring for whatever reason (I would normally blame posts of this sort of being guilty of putting on an air of superiority but you don't seem like the kind of person either so what gives) is that these distinctions didn't arise out of the blue or that they are completely unfounded. They arose over time. There are reasons behind the distinction. At least enough for people to recognize the distinction. En Masse at that.

But most importantly, categorization exists for the sole purpose of making communication easier. The premier goal of taxonomy is to help people draw a common set of "standard" or rather, "commonly known", rules about the specimen in question. If by calling a game as a JRPG instead of a RPG, I can give a friend of mine valuable information as to the nature of the game that would otherwise require me to explain using constructs that take resources, and if the occurrence of my having to make that explanation is rather common, there is absolutely no reason for me to not make the distinction. It facilitates discussions by a great degree.

The same with MAD and AMV. Anime and non-anime animation and the like. And this doesn't just apply to Japan vs. Non-Japan. We distinguish all the time between products that are made elsewhere and "made in China" for instance.

I can be stubborn and refuse to make the distinction and that's completely fine but that means I will have to put in the effort of explaining the differences every single time. And my audience may or not be willing to go through that. It's the loss of the person who refuses to make the distinction and not otherwise. In short, you are the idiot for calling us idiots for recognizing distinctions that are already in widespread use ^^.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

In short, you are the idiot for calling us idiots for recognizing distinctions that are already in widespread use ^^.

NOTE: I used the word "we" for all inclusive, including myself. So, yea. My name is Kyuu, and I am an idiot.

Despite my own argument, I had been prone to these kinds of distinctions myself. For anime vs Western animation, the distinctions are apparent; and I see them too. Same goes with manga vs comic media.

Plus, I remember when I first "discovered" MADs; and thought, "Whoa! These are better than AMVs!" At the time, AMVs were generally random anime clips glued together with music; at least, that was all I had seen out of AMVs. Of course, like you and many others, I have found AMVs which does a lot lot more than that. Among the most notable, Nostromo.

In short, whatever the MAD people can do -- AMV people can do as well. Therefore, is there a distinction within these types of videos? NONE. Any video. Any music. Any reason or purpose. AMV. MAD. No difference.

Finally, do me the favor of digging and rummaging through this forum:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/
See what they think about this topic? I'm kinda curious. And y'know what? I'll go one step further by asking them directly this one question:

"Is there a distinction between AMVs and MADs? If so, how?"

To go a step further, I registered into that forum to create a thread asking that question, but it's under moderator review.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

NOTE: I used the word "we" for all inclusive, including myself. So, yea. My name is Kyuu, and I am an idiot.

Don't worry about my "calling" you an idiot. I love you very much. And there is no reason that "us" doesn't include you as well. My sentence there only emphasizes that you are the idiot

In any case, I went through exactly the same pattern of experience as you did apparently. High five.

Also, taxonomical distinction doesn't arise from actual distinctions but from popular use. Back in the day, Carl Linnaeus categorized humans into different subspecies while any such attempt is really frowned upon now. Whether or not there is any actual distinction doesn't matter. What matters is if the categorization is already in widespread use and if the general public is comfortable with it. In cases where distinction is more there due to misunderstandings and / or ease of use in language rather than due to actual differences, my personal view is to respect what a product/specimen/whatever calls itself.

Do tell us what the AMV people think of this distinction. But if you are really going to be fair about this then perhaps you should also reach out to a pro-MAD group. I can't think of any but perhaps Nico-Nico is the first place to try?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

In short, whatever the MAD people can do -- AMV people can do as well. Therefore, is there a distinction within these types of videos? NONE. Any video. Any music. Any reason or purpose. AMV. MAD. No difference.

If so, then what we have is redundant terminology that creates confusion.


As such, I see some value in strictly limiting what "AMV" stands for.

The term itself is abundantly clear: Anime. Music. Video.

These words are very specific. The term "Music Video" arises straight out of the music industry, and has a clear-cut meaning. Sticking "Anime" in front of it should simply mean it's like a Music Video you might see on MuchMusic or MTV, but with at least some anime content in it.

It would make the terms "AMV" and "MAD" much more clear and straightforward if "AMVs" was used strictly on videos primarily involving music (mashed with anime), and "MADs" was used for anime mash-up videos in general.

[germanturkey]

i have no idea what a MAD is. that said, i enjoy AMVs. Anything by Koopiskeva, including the aforementioned Skittles, is considered in my mind, an AMV. The level of his works is astonishing.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If so, then what we have is redundant terminology that creates confusion.

Confusion? Doensn't have to be. How many English words do we have describing objects of great size? Large, Enormous, Gigantic, Colossal, Huge, etc.

At best, AMVs and MADs are synonymous.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

"MADs" was used for anime mash-up videos in general.

It'd be nice to sift the terminology to go ahead and do that. However, "music videos" are included among MADs.

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

But if you are really going to be fair about this then perhaps you should also reach out to a pro-MAD group.

My Japanese is limited to probably 20 Kanji and even more limited vocabulary. My Japanese grammar is just as basic. So, I won't be able to talk to them, even if I wanted to.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The term itself is abundantly clear: Anime. Music. Video.

Doesn't stop people from not giving a damn

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Confusion?

Why even have the term "MAD" if "AMV" supposedly covers everything that "MAD" does?

Having two different acronyms for exactly the same thing seems silly and pointless to me.

It'd be nice to sift the terminology to go ahead and do that. However, "music videos" are included among MADs.

I'm not disputing that. Like I wrote, all AMVs are technically also MADs. But not all MADs are AMVs. If it doesn't have any anime in it, or if it doesn't have any music in it, then why should it be called an Anime Music Video?


If it's purely live-action, then just call it a "Music Video".


That's my opinion anyway. I know fan-terms are often very hard to pin down.

[Makall]

Originally Posted by Sunnythesun

I always thought that AMV's and MAD's were the same things (ie. edited anime with music), just that they were called differently because the acronym is different in japan or something

For MAD's (and AMV's, for that matter), if by "like 90% of them to be very entertaining or funny and creative" you mean extremely well made, then I agree with you. But having all those things in an AMV/MAD doesn't mean they'll give me the one thing I'm looking for when i watch them: entertainment.

I think that the link to the AMV totoum gave is a prime example of something well made and creative, but boring. Sorry to say it, but i was simply unentertained while watching that. I can acknowledge they skills of whoever made it, and how the effects and such are well done, but i did not enjoy watching that. AMV's/MAD's to me are like movie's and TV shows to me; not distinguished by good or bad but by entertainment value.

Also, with the made up "90% are good/bad" statistic, I'm sure that affecting us because we don't live in japan. There's probably just as many bad MAD's in Japan as there are here, and only the super good ones (yes, most likely with the use of a lot more effects and home made animation than the others) make it through to here, because who would bother uploading some crappy one?

Another thing is the music. I'm inclined to believe that you will enjoy the AMV/MAD more if you like the music better. Which means that anything using a foreign language will probably sound better because we don't understand the lyrics, and we focus on the actual music instead.

So, just enjoy the AMV's/MAD's/whatever you want to call them's you enjoy. I don't see why people have to make such a huge distinction and why it affects overall impression and entertainment value.

The difference is that there's actual EDITING in the audio AND video in MADs. Most AMVs only splice together a few scenes, a few fading transitions, and a static song overlayed on top.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why even have the term "MAD" if "AMV" supposedly covers everything that "MAD" does?

Having two different acronyms for exactly the same thing seems silly, stupid, and pointless to me.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/mads

More specifically, this site:
http://web.archive.org/web/200502121...anime/mad.html

Personally, I came across MADs and that FAQ at least 6 years ago.

The acronym for MAD predates the popular usage of the term "anime", believe or not. Most Westerners were still not aware of "anime" until the late 80's and even then, few people know about it.

Yet, for our English understanding, they make AMVs anyways - by technical definition. If people want to describe MAD as a "subculture", so be it. Subculture labels exist for just about anything anyways. Funny thing is: a lot of memes do come out of this subculture. Yet, by sheer technicality, these people make AMVs and other random videos.

Now, here's the Saimoe 2007 video: AMV or MAD? FYI - I have no clue who made that. Maybe someone here knows.

And if you want to call them MADs. Nothing wrong with that either. Likewise, I can call similar videos made by non-Japanese as MADs too; and I will too. So, as far as I'm concerned, Over 9000 can be a MAD too, even though I never thought that until today.

What's next? Japanese memes vs Western memes? Ugh, I can't wait for this to happen... If this argument were to ever happen, then may the Internet explode.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Makall

The difference is that there's actual EDITING in the audio AND video in MADs. Most AMVs only splice together a few scenes, a few fading transitions, and a static song overlayed on top.

No at all. If you look deep on NicoNico you'll find there are also quite a lot of MADs that are as simple as the AMVs you're describing.

The key here is looking for the best stuff. The best MADs show no different what so ever in comparison with the best AMVs. At this level it's not about simple edits anymore, but about masking, compositing, motion graphics, and a myriad of visual effects. After Effects is the main tool, etc.

Frankly, as I was saying before, the only real distinction is the fact that MAD is a term coined by the Japanese, while AMV is a western term. That's all there is to it.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Frankly, as I was saying before, the only real distinction is the fact that MAD is term coined by the Japanese, while AMV is a western term. That's all there is to it.

This.

Well, technically there are some usage differences, which is what I tried to clarify earlier. Except then everyone got all "WHY U THINK JAPANESE STUFF SO SUPERIOR". I guess telling people that Japanese fans use their slang differently from Western fans is an open invitation to the Crusaders for Fandom Equality.

[Morisato]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

NOTE: I used the word "we" for all inclusive, including myself. So, yea. My name is Kyuu, and I am an idiot.

Despite my own argument, I had been prone to these kinds of distinctions myself. For anime vs Western animation, the distinctions are apparent; and I see them too. Same goes with manga vs comic media.

Plus, I remember when I first "discovered" MADs; and thought, "Whoa! These are better than AMVs!" At the time, AMVs were generally random anime clips glued together with music; at least, that was all I had seen out of AMVs. Of course, like you and many others, I have found AMVs which does a lot lot more than that. Among the most notable, Nostromo.

In short, whatever the MAD people can do -- AMV people can do as well. Therefore, is there a distinction within these types of videos? NONE. Any video. Any music. Any reason or purpose. AMV. MAD. No difference.

Finally, do me the favor of digging and rummaging through this forum:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/
See what they think about this topic? I'm kinda curious. And y'know what? I'll go one step further by asking them directly this one question:

"Is there a distinction between AMVs and MADs? If so, how?"

To go a step further, I registered into that forum to create a thread asking that question, but it's under moderator review.

Hahahaha, don't be delusional. Whatever the MAD people can do, AMV people CAN NOT DO. They are not the same. Not that people that make AMVs can't make MADs but most AMV creators aren't skilled enough in video and audio editing to create anything beyond drag and drop a couple videos and a song together.

AMVs are just music videos. A couple of clips played to a single song. Usually crappy. Any fool with windows movie maker can create an AMV. Good ones require more time and effort, unfortunately most of these AMV creators think that flooding youtube with badly edited videos (low quality, low resolution, hardsubbed text, etc.) are good.

MADs are not music videos. It's not simply a bunch of clips played to a song.

I'd rather listen to these than more linkin park (why do all AMV creators use linkin park?). Please don't lump AMVs together with MADs. The majority of AMVs have no creativity beyond Linkin Park. I will admit that there are exceptions. But the majority are bad.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Morisato

I'd rather listen to these than more linkin park (why do all AMV creators use linkin park?). Please don't lump AMVs together with MADs. The majority of AMVs have no creativity beyond Linkin Park. I will admit that there are exceptions. But the majority are bad.

I'll just copy and paste what was said earlier

Well, ok, I'll tell you why you are seeing such different quality for AMVs and MADs;

>The best quality AMVs rarely get uploaded on YouTube. There are some, of course, but you'll have to look for it.

>On that same note, the MADs you looked at were probably the best of the best brought over by viewers to YouTube because they were so good.

It does sound like you only watched AMVs and MADs on YouTube, which is not an reliable indicator of which is better.

If you look deep on NicoNico you'll find there are also quite a lot of MADs that are as simple as the AMVs you're describing.