(L) ef - a tale of memories.

[SuperKnuckles]

I think that's a great point. Without all the constant juxtaposition of the philosophy and the actual romance, ef wouldn't have stood out like it did.

It even had philosophical discussions/arguments between Hirono and others. Can't get any more blunt than that, but I appreciated those moments a lot. You just don't see that kind of an open exchange in most anime.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

No, in spite of your dismissal, I think you're right. The main difference that everyone noticed pretty quickly with ef is that they never shyed away from the symbolic/moral-driven approach, to the point where the characters really did feel like actors on the stage at times. Throughout the whole series the viewer is essentially a detached third party watching the events unfold. Everything was exaggerated for effect, and colourfully painted with rich metaphors. Even the camera angles used were deliberately designed to detach the viewer from the characters; they were keeping you back as if to say "observe, but don't get too close". The switching viewpoints also contributed to this effect. Essentially, they weren't trying to suspend our disbelief so much make us think about the questions they posed and bring us along on the journey of these characters. So the acknowledgement of the viewer at the end of the show is important because it reinforces that we were being kept "at bay" in order to observe and learn the message they were trying to tell. It literally is a "tale" of memories; a narrative recounting of events in this case imaginary. That's very different from most anime series (usually they want you to identify with a protagonist instead), but that's one of the things I liked and found unique about this one.

Well... as long as everyone can understand what the anime is trying to present and understand it with a ladder amount of explanation then it's all good to me.

It concluded nicely, though they didn't touch up on Kei's side of the story too much, since the anime was revolved mostly around Chihiro and Renji.

[DanielSong39]

A satisfying end to what has been a wonderful series. This had so many of the elements I was looking for, including:

- TOP-notch music. For example, I liked Key soundtracks but they weren't always used to their full potential - especially in Kanon 2006, which was composed mostly of recycled tracks used in less-than-ideal fashion. I also had a particular fondness for Hikaru Nanase's work from D.C. and Gift, but it lacked the edge that Tenmon's scores had in this work.

- Well-conceived characters and their development. It was pleasantly surprising to see so many characters fleshed out in full, each with their own storylines - not unlike what Kimikiss attempted this season (with considerably less success). It helped that they were all interesting and likeable - with flaws that exposed their humanity and added to the drama. Let me just put it this way: I'd rather see Chihiro working on her novel and describing her story than seeing some loli trip and fall and say "uguu".

- Animation. Some of the best stuff I've ever seen. They seem to realize that animation goes beyond making pretty pictures (I'm talking to you, Kyoto animation). D.C. had some interesting imagery but didn't quite have the same impact.

- Real drama. Not the forced kind (Kanon, AIR), or shock value (School Days, though must admit I've never seen it executed so well) - but one that naturally arose from the personalities. Loved the Kei-Miyako-Hiro triangle.

Overall? One of the top animes of 2007 - enough said.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

No, in spite of your dismissal, I think you're right. The main difference that everyone noticed pretty quickly with ef is that they never shyed away from the symbolic/moral-driven approach, to the point where the characters really did feel like actors on the stage at times. Throughout the whole series the viewer is essentially a detached third party watching the events unfold. Everything was exaggerated for effect, and colourfully painted with rich metaphors. Even the camera angles used were deliberately designed to detach the viewer from the characters; they were keeping you back as if to say "observe, but don't get too close". The switching viewpoints also contributed to this effect. Essentially, they weren't trying to suspend our disbelief so much make us think about the questions they posed and bring us along on the journey of these characters. So the acknowledgement of the viewer at the end of the show is important because it reinforces that we were being kept "at bay" in order to observe and learn the message they were trying to tell. It literally is a "tale" of memories; a narrative recounting of events in this case imaginary. That's very different from most anime series (usually they want you to identify with a protagonist instead), but that's one of the things I liked and found unique about this one.

This is an interesting observation; maybe its one that most viewers got? Although I admit that the behaviour of the characters was often 'theatrical' in the sense of exaggeration, these instances did little to disrupt my suspension of disbelief. I'd clarify my use of theatrical in my previous post in that I was referring to that school of theatre which experiments with breaking suspension of disbelief through techniques such as speaking directly to the audience.

If memory serves, the use of exaggeration in theatre was originally supposed to enhance suspension of disbelief by making the actions and thoughts of the characters clearer so that the audience could follow. I could be wrong, though--I'm no expert on theatre (just half a year in highschool as an elective, long ago).

To explain my perspective: It's not too unusual for people to be melodramatic in real life. That's perhaps why the exagerrated actions of the characters enhanced my empathy rather than dispelled it. Although narratives often involve the idealization of some particular action or emotion or intention, people in real life all have at least some experience with narratives, so that they will imitate those narratives to express pure actions, emotions, or intentions. They will also imitate those narratives to portray their actions, emotions, or intentions as pure (though that's not quite relevent).

I thought this self-awareness of theatricality on the part of the characters was particularly nicely played with in the scene where Hiro spewed some romantic shoujo lines at the bidding of Miyako. From my perspective, the exaggerated actions of the characters didn't serve to indicate to me that the creators thought those actions/emotions/intentions were pure, but rather that the characters themselves felt they were pure.

But then again, I don't intend to speak for the creators. Perhaps they did, in fact, intend for us to only hypothetically consider Miyako's ideal sadness and Chihiro's ideal hopelessness to better appreciate their ideal message. To which I can only say, well, that message doesn't really connect with me (still don't quite know what it is; I'm basing this conclusion on the fact that I didn't really get that uplifted feeling a bunch of you are talking about).

[4Tran]

ef is one of the unusual shows wherein I appreciate its technical feats much more than I actually like the show. It certainly has a great sense of visual style, and I can see the symbolism and drama. However, I found it a little off-putting at the same time, and ef didn't manage to espouse any emotional attachment in me. On a related note, I'm not really sold on the strength of the writing or the direction; and as a result, I don't really like any of the three main heroines. The male characters didn't fare too much better.

I think that the ending elevates the show by a bit. I thought that all the relationships were a bit on the pat side, but I rather liked seeing Renji collect all those pages. I liked the paper airplane bit as well, even if it did suffer in comparison to the similar paper airplane in Macross Frontier. In the end, I'll categorize ef with shows like Gankutsuou - shows that I can see the merits of, but that I don't like very much myself.

[Saint Rygar]

Hi i'm not new to the forum but i rarely post. =P

Just finished Ef a tale of memories (although i love the "A fairy tale of the two" title of the game more)and i needed to say it's one of the best animes of 2007 without question.

I was really surprised to see DanielSong39 post because what he said it's exactly how i felt with this series. Especially since usually i see bad impressions in his critics from other romances shows. Nice to see he liked Ef ^_^. (i'm also a little tired of too much "moe" in Key works, the characters sometimes act more like cute animals than people).

Too bad it ended =( but maybe we can get a second season if this sells well. (I really want to see the Yuuko-Yu backstory).

Well that's all i can think of right now. See you later guys!

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Overall? One of the top animes of 2007 - enough said.

And Sola got #1 too, lol ^_^ But it only won cause of popular vote.

[innominate]

A-ah, the show was pretty powerful and astute. I enjoyed the metaphors and the filmography, but I feel they overdid the imagery and the devices a little. maa...

All the characters seem to reflect a part of myself, in a way that made me feel that all the characters actually contributed to the thematic flow of the story. I actually felt at points in time that the arcs themselves were metaphors themselves, due to the heavy melodrama and the nature of the characters. The allusion to pathos was very powerful as a result I guess.

And the dialogue was well crafted, I suppose, I suppose it was pretty strong and it put forth the melodrama in a very perceptive manner.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

That's very different from most anime series (usually they want you to identify with a protagonist instead), but that's one of the things I liked and found unique about this one.

Well said. I was trying to look for a series which would propound this sort of effect and ef sold it for me.

On a final note, I found this piece of fanart on the net:

[psycrop]

Awesome ending. Loved all aspects of it. A+ for this series.

[grey_moon]

Even though I really like the ending, I can't help but think how tragic it would have been if Renji throws himself off the roof and then we find out that Chihiro can't stop thinking about him.

[porchoky]

Well, awesome show, 'nuff said, especially renji and chihiro's story. Wasn't completely satisfied with how they wrapped up kei/miyako/hiro, but still one of the best 13 (well, 12) eppers I've seen in a while. Well, maybe not, bacanno was pretty crazy

About the only gripe I had with ef was the animation. In the beginning, I just felt that, hey, this is a serious drama, so what's up with the PPD/TMP style animation? However, that quickly took care of itself as the series progressed, becuase it became clear the animation style was extremely fitting and effective. But I gotta say something that's been on my mind for a while, which kinda goes against what DanielSong39 said in his post. ef took a very artistic approach that was very effective, no doubt. Kyoto Ani, on the other hand, doesn't do too much of the artistic stuff; rather, they focus on extremely high quality, but 'literal style' animation. Meaning no . The artistic style is difficult to use, but it can be effective since using in the right way can emphasize exactly what the director wants to emphasize at that point; ie, if you're good at it, it'll only help you. However, that's not the only approach to making really good anime, KyoAni proves that again and again. Now, Air, Kanon 2006, and Clannad may be all pretty pictures, but KyoAni inherently restricts itself when choosing to stick to a literal style of animation by reducing how dramatic they can make their scenes, and yet they still manage to produce top quality stuff.
So, tl;dr, this is my opinion: It's hard to use ef's artistic style to make a really good anime, but even harder to use Kyoto Ani's literal style to make an anime that's just as good.


Also, I am too surprised by the amount of people NOT watching this. There aren't even 500 seeds on the h264 version by mendoi/conclave (and even less on the xvid version, a victory for h264). Maybe everyone else knows something we don't.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

ef is one of the unusual shows wherein I appreciate its technical feats much more than I actually like the show. It certainly has a great sense of visual style, and I can see the symbolism and drama. However, I found it a little off-putting at the same time, and ef didn't manage to espouse any emotional attachment in me. On a related note, I'm not really sold on the strength of the writing or the direction; and as a result, I don't really like any of the three main heroines. The male characters didn't fare too much better.

I think that the ending elevates the show by a bit. I thought that all the relationships were a bit on the pat side, but I rather liked seeing Renji collect all those pages. I liked the paper airplane bit as well, even if it did suffer in comparison to the similar paper airplane in Macross Frontier. In the end, I'll categorize ef with shows like Gankutsuou - shows that I can see the merits of, but that I don't like very much myself.

I feel the completely the opposite actually. The technical merits, I could've seen a mile away for a Shaft anime. They've been at it for a while now so it's not really surprising when it's all said and done. They're great at using stark imagery even in the most silliest and nonsensical of comedies. No reason why they wouldn't do the same for serious shows too.

As for the actual visuals, Shaft always seems to go for the rougher look instead of something that is apparently pretty like with the new Macross or KyoAni shows. Which is another charm point for Shaft as I see it. They don't play by the conventional means of what 'pretty visuals' mean. They do it in their own way.

As for Gankutsuou, I really wonder about that comparison since the focus is so different. That anime mostly boils down to the viewer's empathy for the Count himself (which I thought he was awesome in that show), but something like ef, it's more of a concerted effort.

But more than that, I think the writing is actually the great part of it. I always liked melodramas that does play it off more as an actual drama rather than something that is supposed to be realistic, and really, I think ef, just like with something like Myself;Yourself, simply couldn't flesh out too much within 12 episodes. But ef still managed to do it through sheer force of melodrama itself. If they took away all the exaggerated views and the visual representation of the inner turmoil, then it'd be a yet another romance drama.

But in the end, it really wasn't entirely the visuals either. Because they used a LOT of still footages or sometimes didn't even use much in the way of visuals other than the sheer continuation of lines and wordings that turned something that could've been more stock into something that is almost theatrical (Renji groveling and voicing his disconcert was one great example. Take that scene away, and all you have is a silent character. Just great direction and writing IMO).

Personally, I'm dumbfounded when people say the writing and/or the direction is actually BAD. Surely it's not for everyone, but I would BEG to differ on that.

In retrospect, I'd rather not have it any other way. Either ef sinks into someone or it doesn't. That type of boldness is one of the biggest charming points of the show as I see it. Like the many discussions about it (even in 2chan), the show will seemingly remain a magnet for discussion about storytelling. And I think that is ef's greatest accomplishment.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I thought this self-awareness of theatricality on the part of the characters was particularly nicely played with in the scene where Hiro spewed some romantic shoujo lines at the bidding of Miyako. From my perspective, the exaggerated actions of the characters didn't serve to indicate to me that the creators thought those actions/emotions/intentions were pure, but rather that the characters themselves felt they were pure.

But then again, I don't intend to speak for the creators. Perhaps they did, in fact, intend for us to only hypothetically consider Miyako's ideal sadness and Chihiro's ideal hopelessness to better appreciate their ideal message. To which I can only say, well, that message doesn't really connect with me (still don't quite know what it is; I'm basing this conclusion on the fact that I didn't really get that uplifted feeling a bunch of you are talking about).

Maybe you are thinking too much on this as from what I see the final instance should not be connected with the previous events so heavily. For me I feel that the whole story was done in a way that any other story was done. The final end was an attachment to end on a obvious point on their solution rather than to dismiss the series as being a theatrical play. The high point of that part is just plainly seeing how the characters have found their "goals" in life and their reflection on what they have experienced to come to that solution. It maybe cheesy that the way they presented it was as if they spoke to the viewers but imo it was good cheese

[gaguri]

As for Gankutsuou, I really wonder about that comparison since the focus is so different. That anime mostly boils down to the viewer's empathy for the Count himself (which I thought he was awesome in that show), but something like ef, it's more of a concerted effort.

His comparison was very simple. He recognised Gankutsuou's technical merits but didn't like the story/characters. Same as ef. The point he was making isn't about how similar they are, but the fact that he recognises both as a great piece of animation, yet unable to feel for its story/characters at the same time due to his personal taste.

Anyway, I am so glad that they managed to give a satisfying ending to Renji x Chihiro arc. As mentioned before, this has the spirit of a korean melodrama, but I haven't watched one korean melo that is better than ef (well, I guess I liked Damo bit better, ha ji won is so hot...). They throw all sorts of ridiculous and absurd things in K-melo in an attempt to resolve a seemingly impossible problems, but I almost had tears rushing to my eyes at the climax. In many ways, some of the plot events can be argued as too convenient and laughable (especially when she suddenly

Spoiler:

recovered her memories by seeing Renji trying to cure her

, but the way it was presented is full of so much energy and emotion, I couldn't help but cheer for Renji as he strived to break the chains, and almost cried at the fact that she found love to endure, until he gave her that last extra strength to break free.

My biggest complain though is the mediocre manner in which they resolved Hirohiro-Miyamiya-Kei arc. Without going into too much details, it was just another love triangle where the conflict was a resolved in a rush. It seemed as if hirohiro's 'half-half' attitude (observed by both his manga reader and Kyousuke) was the source of their problem (as well as the two girls' demanding nature), so he tried to 'choose one'. But the thing is he didn't. Before he treated Miyamiya as a lover and Kei as his little sister and now he's doing exactly the same. He wasn't going to lose either of them, and that's fine, that can be done through good character interactions and developments. But that is completely different to 'choosing one', Hirohiro's attitude towards his relationship didn't change at all. And yet, Kei decides to accept Hirohiro as just her older brother, and Miyamiya decides to allow Hirohiro to like someone other than her, and all Hirohiro had to do was do his sweet talking. This to me is not Hirohiro growing as a character and solving a problem, it's basically writers changing his girls minds to solve their problem without going through any sort of developments. And the fact that the show tried to parallel his approach to work (quitting school) to his approach to relationship is laughable because that's simply false. So like few posters here, I couldn't appreciate the epilogue at the end, where Hirohiro claims to have finally 'found his colour', when in my opinion, he didn't change his colour at all. And since the conflict was resolved way too easily, it did not earn my support. And it's a shame because I thought this arc had even more potential than Renji x Chihiro's arc.

I was hoping that the two arcs were going to be related somehow, but I think it's fine the way it is. The two plots don't necessarily have to intersect with each other, but having a parallel theme running to make the same message in different ways. The most recent live action example I can think of is 'Babel'. Well technically they had some of the stories running into each other, but not so much, different 'arcs' were there to show variety of situations that parallels the same message rather than accumulating together as a whole new message.

I think much has been said about the visuals and its inmeasurable role in telling a more engaging story, so I won't say anything about that. As discussed before, I think they reduced some of the visual's effectiveness by resorting to narratives to reiterate at the end, but that's my problem I guess. I'm also glad that they managed to end this all in twelve episodes without the melodrama going around in circles. Too many K-melos spend literally 20s, 30s, 40s episodes (1 hour each) centering around what is essentially the same love triangle (or even a quad...penta..garrr). Overall, I'd give 8/10 despite its weak hirohiro arc, because I'm soft on shows with pretty pictures and innovation.

[grey_moon]

Spoiler for for the cure to all the ails in the world:

Actually she wasn't cured, she just couldn't stop thinking about him for 13 hours straight to let her memories purge.

[gaguri]

Spoiler for o rly:

I know she said she couldn't stop thinking about him. But if I recall correctly, just before Renji shows up to her for the second time, we see the image of her pages (representing her memories ba doom chi...) coming together. I took that as her finally remembering him, thanks to the efforts Renji put into finding her pages.

Maybe I'm overanalysing this, but I think this made for a beautiful symbolism. Although Renji couldn't collect all the pages, the way he strived so hard to do that is what gave the little extra strength Chihiro needed to recollect the memory of him, which she couldn't help but try to remember.

Edit: Just had a quick another look the episode to make sure I actually know what I'm talking about. I have no doubt in my mind, that she only remembered him the second time and not the first. They have been pretty subtle, but giving almost definite proofs of Chihiro's state throughout the episode, and Chihiro I see the first time most definitely didn't recall who Renji was. Also at the second time, they used that technique of wind, carrying something ethereal towards Chihiro, as if to 'wake her up'. I clearly remember this on earlier episode, where we follow something ethereal once again, something undefinable, gliding across the railraod track, and to arrive at Chihiro, as she looks up and see Renji.

So yes, she did magically recover her memories

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by gaguri

Spoiler:

I know she said she couldn't stop thinking about him. But if I recall correctly, just before Renji shows up to her for the second time, we see the image of her pages (representing her memories ba doom chi...) coming together. I took that as her finally remembering him, thanks to the efforts Renji put into finding her pages.

Maybe I'm overanalysing this, but I think this made for a beautiful symbolism. Although Renji couldn't collect all the pages, the way he strived so hard to do that is what gave the little extra strength Chihiro needed to recollect the memory of him, which she so couldn't help but try to remember.

Spoiler for to save the baby dangos:

Personally I thought that was the final straw to stop her from running away from her own feelings.

[gaguri]

See my edit above. I first thought this issue was debatable but I can't accept any other explanation, unless someone can convince me otherwise more pursuasively. It also makes for a much greater (melo)drama imo, since the freedom was gained by synergy and not just Chihiro's sheer will power.

[grey_moon]

From the diary entry...

Spoiler for the dango of it:

Renji read, Chihiro was determined to forget about him for his sake as well as hers. I personally believe she was acting as if she didn't know him, but at the end when she sees how much Renji is willing to go through for her, that overcomes her fear of being hurt and hurting someone she loves. This I think has a far greater impact then some magical cure.

*edit*
She even says that even though she shouldn't she kept thinking about it over and over again.

[innominate]

See my edit above. I first thought this issue was debatable but I can't accept any other explanation, unless someone can convince me otherwise more pursuasively.

The pages of the book don't only represent her memories but also her existence (implied lots of times already). Remember the part where it mentioned that the loss of her existence was not defined by her memory loss, but the dying of others memories of her?

In the same sense the 'return of the pages' was symbolic of the fact that someone was trying to recollect her existence, and the will to do so was powered by his memories of her. She was overwhelmed by the fact that she didn't die inside him.

And I agree with grey moon actually. It's more plausible that she seemed touched by his determination. (And yes, it's more powerful too) =)