AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Retired A-L > Hayate no Gotoku

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-10, 02:32   Link #9181
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Note that Ruka doesn't even need to bet with Nagi about the debt. She can just give Hayate the money and ask him to use it to pay back Nagi, which she sort of implied she would do when she asked Hayate what if he didn't have the debt and he didn't give any answer to her.
Except she already has a large debt she hasn't finished repaying.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-10, 03:50   Link #9182
evil|plushie
The Last Frontier
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
If it's her, I think she would actually prioritise paying Hayate's debt off first before hers in this particular case. That or work even harder. I'm not saying it's the smartest thing to do, but it's awfully straightforward, like her.
__________________
God is on the side with the biggest cannon.

http://sining83.blogspot.com
evil|plushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-10, 08:05   Link #9183
Libros
I never hid my hurts.
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Where the wild things are--Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
If it's her, I think she would actually prioritise paying Hayate's debt off first before hers in this particular case. That or work even harder. I'm not saying it's the smartest thing to do, but it's awfully straightforward, like her.
Hold on a minute. Something doesn't make sense to me. Ruka wants to give hayate 150m in Yen but she has her own debt she hasn't even finished paying off yet. Tell me exactly, how would she get that much money? Doesn't all of her pay or at least a large chunk of it go straight to the person she owes? And assuming she has enough money to pay for Hayate's debt, why is she still in debt..?
Libros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-10, 08:33   Link #9184
evil|plushie
The Last Frontier
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
I'm not sure what's hard to understand. Ruka would give whatever was left to Hayate and might work even harder to earn money. She's 3x faster after all
__________________
God is on the side with the biggest cannon.

http://sining83.blogspot.com
evil|plushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 00:34   Link #9185
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Note that Ruka doesn't even need to bet with Nagi about the debt. She can just give Hayate the money and ask him to use it to pay back Nagi, which she sort of implied she would do when she asked Hayate what if he didn't have the debt and he didn't give any answer to her.
This is false, considering she can't even pay off her own debt. Where exactly does this spare money needed to pay off Hayate's debt come from when she can't even pay off her own?

It's also a logical fallacy to assume that Ruka can do it easily simply because she is an idol. Idols are not multi-billionaire celebrities on the same calibur as solo artists like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, etc. In Korea and Japan, they're a dime a dozen that have to answer to the agencies that manage them as well as all the middlemen such as the record companies. Idols may make more than the average salarymen, but they're not as rich as you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Of course she doesn't want Nagi's help. Thanks to Hayate, she thinks Nagi and his debt to her is the reason he can't date her. What do you expect her to do? Ask Nagi to force Hayate to date her? Wait for Hayate to finish paying 150million in yen to Nagi? If you're so smart and so much better, then you tell me what is the best solution in that situation and we'll see if it can't be nitpicked at all.

And Nagi isn't refusing Ruka's claim over Hayate's debt. She basically told Ruka to give up on her feelings for Hayate. Let me make that clearer; she told Ruka; a person which owes her nothing and has no debt to her, to give up on her own personal feelings for Hayate; someone who is indebted to her. It's got nothing to do with Hayate's debt at this point.

The only way this would be even comparable is if Ruka's bet was 'you give up on Hayate' to Nagi
Once again, you miss the point. Both girls are competing with their feelings on Hayate using his debt as the prize. If you find fault in one, the same fault exists in the other. If you ask what right Nagi has to refuse Ruka's request to let go of Hayate's debt, then you should also ask what right Ruka has to demand power over Hayate's status without the consent of the man in question.

This is not something where you can claim one of them moral superiority.

And FYI, considering Hayate is obligated to stay with Nagi because of the debt, regardless of his personal feelings of compassion or loyality, Ruka telling Nagi to pardon the debt or give it away does in fact imply giving up on Hayate (at least to Nagi).


---

On a side note, apparently Hata released a (non-h) doujin named Sore ga Seiyuu! EX for Comiket 83.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 00:45   Link #9186
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
If it's her, I think she would actually prioritise paying Hayate's debt off first before hers in this particular case. That or work even harder. I'm not saying it's the smartest thing to do, but it's awfully straightforward, like her.
I'm saying that, contrary to what you've said, she does need a bet with Nagi to settle Hayate's debt. That, or take out a(nother) loan, or something to get the money.

It's not like when Isumi (or Nagi) did it. Isumi can do it out of petty cash. Ruka can't.

So Nagi's giving her more of a fighting chance than she needs to. She could refuse to sell the debt at any price. She could insist of Ruka coming up with the money somehow. Instead she's giving Ruka an opportunity to win the necessary money with a contest that most people would think Ruka's overwhelmingly more likely to win.

Not to mention, she forced Hayate out of his denial regarding Ruka's feelings.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 03:20   Link #9187
evil|plushie
The Last Frontier
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
This is false, considering she can't even pay off her own debt. Where exactly does this spare money needed to pay off Hayate's debt come from when she can't even pay off her own?

It's also a logical fallacy to assume that Ruka can do it easily simply because she is an idol. Idols are not multi-billionaire celebrities on the same calibur as solo artists like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, etc. In Korea and Japan, they're a dime a dozen that have to answer to the agencies that manage them as well as all the middlemen such as the record companies. Idols may make more than the average salarymen, but they're not as rich as you think.
I never said she would pay it off immediately in one lump sum. We all know she doesn't have the cash. But if she had to, she would pay it off, the same way she's paying off her own debt, with whatever money she can earn and not need.

And nobody is saying Ruka will do it easily. However, in the manga, the characters themselves comment that Ruka CAN pay off her debt if she works hard enough; either as an idol or mangaka.

Quote:
Once again, you miss the point. Both girls are competing with their feelings on Hayate using his debt as the prize. If you find fault in one, the same fault exists in the other. If you ask what right Nagi has to refuse Ruka's request to let go of Hayate's debt, then you should also ask what right Ruka has to demand power over Hayate's status without the consent of the man in question.

This is not something where you can claim one of them moral superiority.

And FYI, considering Hayate is obligated to stay with Nagi because of the debt, regardless of his personal feelings of compassion or loyality, Ruka telling Nagi to pardon the debt or give it away does in fact imply giving up on Hayate (at least to Nagi).


---

On a side note, apparently Hata released a (non-h) doujin named Sore ga Seiyuu! EX for Comiket 83.
You pretty much just shot your own argument in the foot. Someone who's just using a debt to coerce people into staying with her because she thinks they'll leave her otherwise is obviously morally inferior to someone who would help someone they loved get rid of an obstacle that might keep them apart.

And FYI , I never said Nagi couldn't refuse to hand over the debt to Ruka. I found her saying 'if you lose, give up on Hayate' to be the WTF portion of the bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm saying that, contrary to what you've said, she does need a bet with Nagi to settle Hayate's debt. That, or take out a(nother) loan, or something to get the money.

It's not like when Isumi (or Nagi) did it. Isumi can do it out of petty cash. Ruka can't.

So Nagi's giving her more of a fighting chance than she needs to. She could refuse to sell the debt at any price. She could insist of Ruka coming up with the money somehow. Instead she's giving Ruka an opportunity to win the necessary money with a contest that most people would think Ruka's overwhelmingly more likely to win.

Not to mention, she forced Hayate out of his denial regarding Ruka's feelings.
Win what money? Ruka still has to pay off Hayate's 150million debt if she wins; unless they changed the agreement of the bet. That's not really a 'win' per se.
__________________
God is on the side with the biggest cannon.

http://sining83.blogspot.com
evil|plushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 06:44   Link #9188
Libros
I never hid my hurts.
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Where the wild things are--Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
I never said she would pay it off immediately in one lump sum. We all know she doesn't have the cash. But if she had to, she would pay it off, the same way she's paying off her own debt, with whatever money she can earn and not need.

And nobody is saying Ruka will do it easily. However, in the manga, the characters themselves comment that Ruka CAN pay off her debt if she works hard enough; either as an idol or mangaka.



You pretty much just shot your own argument in the foot. Someone who's just using a debt to coerce people into staying with her because she thinks they'll leave her otherwise is obviously morally inferior to someone who would help someone they loved get rid of an obstacle that might keep them apart.

And FYI , I never said Nagi couldn't refuse to hand over the debt to Ruka. I found her saying 'if you lose, give up on Hayate' to be the WTF portion of the bet.



Win what money? Ruka still has to pay off Hayate's 150million debt if she wins; unless they changed the agreement of the bet. That's not really a 'win' per se.
I may have to reread the chapter but isn't the bet, whoever wins gets 150m Yen?

Just so we're all clear here, Nagi does in fact have money like that to give away, right? or is she just going to forgive Hayates debt?
Libros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 14:01   Link #9189
evil|plushie
The Last Frontier
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Does Nagi still have money like that to give away? IIRC, she had 20million yen left for buying the apartment and she never really gained any more substantial amounts of money from that.

And it's not really clear on the bet. Ruka says she will take on Hayate's debt if she wins while Nagi says there's 150million riding on the bet, which doesn't preclude the scenario that Ruka's betting terms are to transfer the debt over to her.
__________________
God is on the side with the biggest cannon.

http://sining83.blogspot.com
evil|plushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 14:46   Link #9190
Xellos-_^
Not Enough Sleep
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Does Nagi still have money like that to give away? IIRC, she had 20million yen left for buying the apartment and she never really gained any more substantial amounts of money from that.
she does once she move back into the mansion.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 15:34   Link #9191
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
You pretty much just shot your own argument in the foot. Someone who's just using a debt to coerce people into staying with her because she thinks they'll leave her otherwise is obviously morally inferior to someone who would help someone they loved get rid of an obstacle that might keep them apart.

And FYI , I never said Nagi couldn't refuse to hand over the debt to Ruka. I found her saying 'if you lose, give up on Hayate' to be the WTF portion of the bet.
It's only morally inferior if you choose to romanticize Ruka's actions without understanding that even what she wants has negative consequences. You do realize that Ruka is the one who provoked Nagi into this bet without thinking about the perspective of the man she loves, right? Ruka also never told Hayate about it. If you want to nitpick at something "wrong" about this whole competition, I can name plenty of reasons why both girls are being selfish.

And once again, you don't seem to understand that Ruka also implied Nagi should give on Hayate as well. Neither girl is being "nicer" than the other about it.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-12, 02:58   Link #9192
evil|plushie
The Last Frontier
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Nice words you're using there, like 'provoked'. I somehow suspect you just don't like Ruka. And when did Ruka imply Nagi give up on Hayate? Nagi feels so because deep down, she feels Hayate is with her for the debt, but there's no indication Ruka feels so.

And state the negative consequences for Hayate if Ruka wins her bet
__________________
God is on the side with the biggest cannon.

http://sining83.blogspot.com
evil|plushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 01:24   Link #9193
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Nice words you're using there, like 'provoked'. I somehow suspect you just don't like Ruka. And when did Ruka imply Nagi give up on Hayate? Nagi feels so because deep down, she feels Hayate is with her for the debt, but there's no indication Ruka feels so.

And state the negative consequences for Hayate if Ruka wins her bet
Personal feelings do not (or at least should not) have any influence on a logical argument. Personally, I think Ruka is the best thing to happen to this series since Golden and and the End of the World arc. Hayate's wishy-washiness common to all harem protagonists is being challenged for once, and Ruka actually has the guts to be honest with her feelings.

But that's not the point. The point is that I don't see why you feel to blow Nagi's actions to be some sin when it's clear that Hata is pushing these two girls against each other to compete for their feelings. Whatever morals you want to push onto others while on top of your slanted pedestal was never important. I merely played the devil's advocate to present the notion that what Ruka is doing is not ideal to others either, and you became defensive, bringing something as irrelevant as personal opinion that has nothing to do with what happened in the story.

Once again, neither Nagi nor Ruka bear any hostility toward each other. You apparently know Ruka so well, but remember that Nagi is the one who told Hayate to take Ruka's feelings seriously and encouraged him to help out Ruka, her opponent. Then there was the manga arc where it's clear that they are friends and how Nagi greatly respects her.

Neither one of them was thinking about how they could hurt each other. The point was that they just want to take (or keep) the man they love. The fact that you believe if one of the two girls will allow some indecisive double dipping when the entire goal of this silly competition is to reach a decisive conclusion to the romance appears more hypocritical to me than what either of the two girls had said or done.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 04:02   Link #9194
Sean Gaffney
Nomad of the Time Streams
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 50
Can we talk about Fumi and Sharna some more? I mean, there was a new chapter out...

FYI, "The men of Akiba are quick to call people sluts" made me laugh so hard. Hata, the otaku who do that are probably your audience...
Sean Gaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 06:15   Link #9195
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
391



Chunibyo



ZKC: UNLIMITED, Tamako market, Robotic;Notes



Anime Techou
__________________
*TL Note: Better than
Skype and Teamspeak

RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-20, 10:14   Link #9196
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
Oh Hayate, yet another girl (from his perspective) appears to confess to you, and you shoot her down by calling her stupid. Hopefully this develops and wasn't a one-and-done chapter. Always enjoy me some Izumi.
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-20, 10:24   Link #9197
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
392

__________________
*TL Note: Better than
Skype and Teamspeak

RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-20, 10:48   Link #9198
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
She expected Ayasaki "Terrible Luck With Money" to support her. Of course she's stupid.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-20, 10:54   Link #9199
evil|plushie
The Last Frontier
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
She has the wealth. She just needs the moral support.

In fact, I think every single girl who likes Hayate is richer than him
__________________
God is on the side with the biggest cannon.

http://sining83.blogspot.com
evil|plushie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-20, 14:12   Link #9200
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
In fact, I think every single girl who likes Hayate is richer than him
Except Ruka, who also has a massive debt. But yeah, every other girl comes from serious money, such that they can get into Hakuo. Or, in Ayumu's case, a normal family who isn't swimming in millions of debt.
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
comedy, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.