Monogatari Series Second Season - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll (Nadeko Medusa IV)

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

From my understanding (all guesses) it means that...

1) Nadeko sneaked into araragi's house during the day. normally shinobu is asleep, but she was awake. and saying that line seems to imply that she was waiting for nadeko to arrive.

2) I think shinobu believes that Oshino Ougi (who claims to be meme's niece) is not actually oshino meme's niece.

I think what she was trying to say was that Araragi ran into Ougi at school and told him that Nadeko is going to sneak into his house to steal the ofuda. Araragi then deliberately woke Shinobu up knowing he'll need her help.

But honestly up till now this is definitely the best episode for this season. The animation was superb and HanaKana's voice work was amazing.

[DorkingtonPugsly]

"koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan. *stab*koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan. *stab*"

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by DorkingtonPugsly

"koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan. *stab* koyomi onichan! *stab*koyomi onichan! *stab* koyomi onichan!!! *stab*"

Does this reminds you of School Days scene, where the MC guy got stabbed several times by his newly-turned yandere childhood friend?

Oh yeah, could someone else create a gif for this scene?

[SQA]

Originally Posted by omimon

I want to ask, who here honestly had NO IDEA about the big twist? When I first read the novel I DID NOT see it coming. It was a huge twist and easily the best part of the story. However I couldn't help but feel that Shaft wasn't trying very hard to keep it a secret as I felt there were some parts that was hinting it.

The one thing I didn't like about the story in general is that Hitagi was able to convince Nadeko to spare Araragi's life. She is a god now why doesn't she just murder everyone, it doesn't sense, no one should be able to stand up against her now.

However I think it is because Nisio doesn't want her to past the point of no return. Once she kills someone that's it, she's a murderer, there won't be space left for her to come back later as an ally to fight a bigger evil.

The "possession" didn't take me by surprise, but the paranoid delusions did. We've had how many episodes of these very real oddities? The 2nd Season started with Tsubasa Tiger after all. This, however, was a well-played twist. It's a nice combination of 2 movies from the 90s and their twists. (Which I won't say, but if you seen them, you know which two I'm referencing)

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by omimon

She is a god now why doesn't she just murder everyone, it doesn't sense, no one should be able to stand up against her now.

I think she was able to be convinced exactly because she's a god. She's so powerful (and I guess, immortal? Gods usually are) that 6 months don't mean much to her, and it's not like they'll be able to beat her no matter how long they have to prepare.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by omimon

I want to ask, who here honestly had NO IDEA about the big twist? When I first read the novel I DID NOT see it coming. It was a huge twist and easily the best part of the story. However I couldn't help but feel that Shaft wasn't trying very hard to keep it a secret as I felt there were some parts that was hinting it.

The one thing I didn't like about the story in general is that Hitagi was able to convince Nadeko to spare Araragi's life. She is a god now why doesn't she just murder everyone, it doesn't sense, no one should be able to stand up against her now.

However I think it is because Nisio doesn't want her to past the point of no return. Once she kills someone that's it, she's a murderer, there won't be space left for her to come back later as an ally to fight a bigger evil.

I only knew about the twist due to /a/ being a spoiler minefield. I can only imagine how awesome the reveal was in the novel though. The sequence of deductive reasoning and loose, seemingly irrelevant details all being tied together reminded me so much of the big climaxes/reveals of the Zaregoto novels, with just the amazing irony in the end on top of that that the stuff Nadeko was deducting was ALL HER OWN DELUSIONS .

Anyway, I actually totally would have bought Hitagi's stalling strategy to make Nadeko wait until the very end and the last two lines. Buttering up the significance of Nadeko's godhood and challenging the seriousness of her resolution was to me totally believable reasoning, except then at the very end I don't understand how Nadeko found the good humour not to do anything after Hitagi insulted her.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I only knew about the twist due to /a/ being a spoiler minefield. I can only imagine how awesome the reveal was in the novel though. The sequence of deductive reasoning and loose, seemingly irrelevant details all being tied together reminded me so much of the big climaxes/reveals of the Zaregoto novels, with just the amazing irony in the end on top of that that the stuff Nadeko was deducting was ALL HER OWN DELUSIONS .

Anyway, I actually totally would have bought Hitagi's stalling strategy to make Nadeko wait until the very end and the last two lines. Buttering up the significance of Nadeko's godhood and challenging the seriousness of her resolution was to me totally believable reasoning, except then at the very end I don't understand how Nadeko found the good humour not to do anything after Hitagi insulted her.

She probably didn't see it as a big enough insult to act up on.

[Raymondjram]

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

I think she was able to be convinced exactly because she's a god. She's so powerful (and I guess, immortal? Gods usually are) that 6 months don't mean much to her, and it's not like they'll be able to beat her no matter how long they have to prepare.

Although she became a "god", she isn't powerful. All her "powers" and weapons are used at close range, so she cannot kill at a distance. I also believe that she cannot leave the Shrine because of her limited power. I see in her an image of a classical "being" that may be immortal, and has no need to eat or sleep (no human limitations). But being isolated from other humans will eventually kill her with boredom unless she has followers that will worship her, or has a few battles to kill some "puny humans" with her stabs, or finally get killed by Koyomi and his allies.

I like that Shinobu is a teen again (as in the last chapter of Nisemonogatari) and I am guessing that she will eventually return to being Kiss-Shot in the far future.

BTW, has anyone noticed in all the episodes that there is no "fan service" for Nadeko, while we saw plenty of Tsubasa and Hitagi in their underwear in the Nekomonogatari stories? Even in some scenes, where her skirt does fly up, or when she sat down, the clothes keep her covered, even against the law of gravity (not counting Shinobu who isn't affected by such laws but does protect herself).

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Raymondjram

I like that Shinobu is a teen again (as in the last chapter of Nisemonogatari) and I am guessing that she will eventually return to being Kiss-Shot in the far future.

I think she is only a teen again to be able to have a better fighting change against Nadeko. I don't see this as an indication of her becoming Kiss-Shot again.

[-Sho-]

This arc sucked , that was painful to watch a jealous crybaby brat...
Fortunately , Hitagi saved the day. Can't wait till the brat got her ass kicked.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by omimon

The one thing I didn't like about the story in general is that Hitagi was able to convince Nadeko to spare Araragi's life. She is a god now why doesn't she just murder everyone, it doesn't sense, no one should be able to stand up against her now.

However I think it is because Nisio doesn't want her to past the point of no return. Once she kills someone that's it, she's a murderer, there won't be space left for her to come back later as an ally to fight a bigger evil.

She is an arrogant 14 year old who got a god's power, that is easy enough to fool into complacency.

Also, I doubt Nisio took murder as being a point of no return as there are many stories where some characters commit atrocities and then return to the protagonists side (the ToAru series for example) for that to road to be unusable. However, I doubt she will murder anyone, though her problems are more fundamental than the other girls seem to be if you take her song's lyrics as clues.

Also its hilarious how some were fooled by that fake preview.

[pagan poor]

The way KanaHana said "Coming Soon" made my heart melt.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Raymondjram

Although she became a "god", she isn't powerful. All her "powers" and weapons are used at close range, so she cannot kill at a distance. I also believe that she cannot leave the Shrine because of her limited power. I see in her an image of a classical "being" that may be immortal, and has no need to eat or sleep (no human limitations). But being isolated from other humans will eventually kill her with boredom unless she has followers that will worship her, or has a few battles to kill some "puny humans" with her stabs, or finally get killed by Koyomi and his allies.

I like that Shinobu is a teen again (as in the last chapter of Nisemonogatari) and I am guessing that she will eventually return to being Kiss-Shot in the far future.

BTW, has anyone noticed in all the episodes that there is no "fan service" for Nadeko, while we saw plenty of Tsubasa and Hitagi in their underwear in the Nekomonogatari stories? Even in some scenes, where her skirt does fly up, or when she sat down, the clothes keep her covered, even against the law of gravity (not counting Shinobu who isn't affected by such laws but does protect herself).

I honestly doubt that she is stuck at the shrine. The fact that she was able to critically damage Shinobu and Araragi at his house shows that her powers aren't area limited.

As for her range I believe that she not only has command over the snakes on her hair but snakes in the general area as well. Meaning she should be able to command her snakes to kill at a distance. (This is my guess though.)

As for the fanservice I believe her wearing her skanky PJs in episode 2 is the fanservice.

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by Raymondjram

Although she became a "god", she isn't powerful.

Oh I know, I meant it from Nadeko's POV. She gave me the vibe that she believes herself so powerful that it doesn't matter how long Araragi gets because she'll always win in the end.

I could be wrong though. I had a hard time understanding her.

[Malkuth]

Shinto kami (=gods/spirits) have very varying power levels (lacking a better term). Nonetheless being able to beat Koyomi and Shinobu twice, she is definitely stronger than Tsubasa, Suruga, Tsukihi, Meme and Yozuru+Yotsugi (since they were beaten or evenly matched by those two or weaker characters)... I don't even take into account Karen, Mayoi and Hitagi who can not fight at all. Dunno about Izuko and Ougi, and I guess the characters from Kizu- are not to be discussed here. But all these are very speculative, and I'd rather we don't turn the Monogatari universe into what the Beast Lair has made Nasuverse discussion

As for being bound to the shrine, I think Nadeko/Snake already said that after their tablet got destroyed it is insignificant. That also is in line with Japanese mythology.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Shinto kami (=gods/spirits) have very varying power levels (lacking a better term). Nonetheless being able to beat Koyomi and Shinobu twice, she is definitely stronger than Tsubasa, Suruga, Tsukihi, Meme and Yozuru+Yotsugi (since they were beaten or evenly matched by those two or weaker characters)... I don't even take into account Karen, Mayoi and Hitagi who can not fight at all. Dunno about Izuko and Ougi, and I guess the characters from Kizu- are not to be discussed here. But all these are very speculative, and I'd rather we don't turn the Monogatari universe into what the Beast Lair has made Nasuverse discussion

As for being bound to the shrine, I think Nadeko/Snake already said that after their tablet got destroyed it is insignificant. That also is in line with Japanese mythology.

The problem with your theory is that almost nobody fought at full strength during the series.

Case 1) Black Hanakawa beating Meme
Hanekawa didn't want to truly hurt Meme and Meme wanted to rescue her so either fought at full strength

Case 2) Rainy Devil beating Koyomi
Rainy Devil most likely fought at full strength but Koyomi definitely didn't

Case 3) Kagenui beating Koyomi
Both sides was prepared to fight as full strength but when Koyomi couldn't after being called a human either did Kagenui

This series isn't a shonen power level fest and situations changes the results a lot.

Also the reason why Shinobu and Koyomi lost was because unlike physical damage poison works normally against vampires. In a way Nadeko hard counters them.

[Rogue66]

Good episode now got to wait for the arc to finnish.

Cant wait.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by omimon

The problem with your theory is that almost nobody fought at full strength during the series.

Case 1) Black Hanakawa beating Meme
Hanekawa didn't want to truly hurt Meme and Meme wanted to rescue her so either fought at full strength

Case 2) Rainy Devil beating Koyomi
Rainy Devil most likely fought at full strength but Koyomi definitely didn't

Case 3) Kagenui beating Koyomi
Both sides was prepared to fight as full strength but when Koyomi couldn't after being called a human either did Kagenui

I know, that's why I also wrote that what I suggested is very speculative.

Originally Posted by omimon

This series isn't a shonen power level fest and situations changes the results a lot.

Same is true for Nasuverse, but many (not me) treat it so.

Originally Posted by omimon

Also the reason why Shinobu and Koyomi lost was because unlike physical damage poison works normally against vampires. In a way Nadeko hard counters them.

But the poison is part of her powers. In between can you PM me if the fight after graduation takes place eventually and in which novel (including Hitagi getting "crucified" under the torii), because I have a feeling that it will never come to pass

[blakstealth]

Hitagi the bes Gee Eff

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by omimon

The problem with your theory is that almost nobody fought at full strength during the series.

Case 1) Black Hanakawa beating Meme
Hanekawa didn't want to truly hurt Meme and Meme wanted to rescue her so either fought at full strength

Case 2) Rainy Devil beating Koyomi
Rainy Devil most likely fought at full strength but Koyomi definitely didn't

Case 3) Kagenui beating Koyomi
Both sides was prepared to fight as full strength but when Koyomi couldn't after being called a human either did Kagenui

I consider that twisting Araragi's words. He never meant to kill anyone, but he fought the best he could. He couldn't afford to pull punches, and yet he was overpowered a lot. One of the reasons given is that in the end he is not a real vampire, just something close to one, but anyway with Nisio "power levels" don't count Even normal people are able to do superhuman feats, like Karen and Kanbaru.