AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-10-12, 22:38   Link #3761
Bogart
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
You want to know what the difference between Alibaba and Hakuryuu?

Alibaba let his right to the throne go for the sake of Balbaad.

Hakuryuu is threatening to tear Kou apart to secure the throne for himself. Hakuryuu does not have altruistic reasons for what he's doing. He considers the throne to be his by right and he's willing to do anything to get it.

Alibaba's interest in Balbaad has never been about his self. Even when he wanted to return, it was because he felt obligated to do something for his country.

All things considered, his sister was practically queen in waiting (seriously, En has been courting her for more than a decade and there's a reason why she wasn't married off like the rest of Kou's princesses). Hakuryuu's nieces and nephews would inherit the future, but all he can think about is how he was robbed and didn't fight for what he thinks should have been his. He's concerned about avenging his brothers' and stepping up so that they didn't die for nothing.
Bogart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-12, 23:33   Link #3762
BPD Renegade
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: swept back to sea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
All things considered, his sister was practically queen in waiting (seriously, En has been courting her for more than a decade and there's a reason why she wasn't married off like the rest of Kou's princesses). Hakuryuu's nieces and nephews would inherit the future, but all he can think about is how he was robbed and didn't fight for what he thinks should have been his. He's concerned about avenging his brothers' and stepping up so that they didn't die for nothing.
Forgive me, but where did this information come from? I can't seem to recall reading it anywhere.
BPD Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 00:15   Link #3763
dazo
english for dummies 2 ed.
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
@Apoptosis
well, "sasuke" is not a new invention, he is part of a specific class of character and .. ..even though he and Hakuryuu have some similarities, Hakuryuu have his own development.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn View Post
Because Charmeleon rape Bulbasaur, right ?
mm i am hoping for a tactical battle..not just a "laser" fight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I really can't dislike Hakuryuu after this chapter. After being reminded of what he had to endure, I even find myself supporting him. Sure, he's using questionable means to get what he wants, but then again, who isn't in this series? Alibaba is the only scrupulous king candidate.
yep, and its a good thing that he want something beyond just revenge

and..is not like alibaba have a real problem in his hand...even the baldadd plot is a little inconsistent (idealisms)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
You want to know what the difference between Alibaba and Hakuryuu?
hakurryuu is more badass and he is ready to do what must be done to obtain what he want(but at the same time he is not a monster)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
Alibaba let his right to the throne go for the sake of Balbaad.
mmm there are more things here...but i agree in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
Hakuryuu is threatening to tear Kou apart to secure the throne for himself. Hakuryuu does not have altruistic reasons for what he's doing. He considers the throne to be his by right and he's willing to do anything to get it.
well... Hakuryuu is the legitimate successor ..so...he is just fixing his world...

...and, unless a member of the kou empire family choose to start a democracy...everybody is here for their own desires (and, altruism is for allibaba and not for a proper king)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
Alibaba's interest in Balbaad has never been about his self. Even when he wanted to return, it was because he felt obligated to do something for his country.
well..that is rather tricky...he really need to be a governor to help that city?
there isn't another way to help Balbaad...i can see a little of pride hidden behind his speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
All things considered, his sister was practically queen in waiting (seriously, En has been courting her for more than a decade and there's a reason why she wasn't married off like the rest of Kou's princesses). Hakuryuu's nieces and nephews would inherit the future, but all he can think about is how he was robbed and didn't fight for what he thinks should have been his. He's concerned about avenging his brothers' and stepping up so that they didn't die for nothing.
lets be honest.. in Hakuryuu place everybody is gonna do the same...(unless this person in a pacifist - broken man)..

and i doubt that everything is gonna be fixed with hakoui marriage(which is probably the next move of kouen-marriage and a son)

you can add the problem of the possible participation of kouen/or his family in "rebellion" that killed he first emperor (or the fact that kouen dad took Hakuryuu place as the ruler, and married his mother to obtain the throne )

so , no...there is not such a thing as a future here, till one of the side is dead or in the exile.
___________-

what bother me a little is the fact that we aren't going to see a good rise to the power (Hakuryuu )...without the help of some djinns
__________________
dazo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 00:27   Link #3764
Bogart
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPD Renegade View Post
Forgive me, but where did this information come from? I can't seem to recall reading it anywhere.
Chapter 215: Legend. It's the first page and En is kneeling before her, offering her his services, which she accepts. This was back when he was the 5th prince of Kou, and subordinate to her line of the family.

To really mess with you, he is probably around 16 and she's around 11, give or take a year or so. And they're cousins.

Obviously his intentions aren't likely to be romantic at this time, but with Kouen it's kind of hard to tell what he's thinking when he does or says something. The impression I took from the picture is that he's meeting her of his own accord and not because he was told to. He caught her alone with Hakuryuu and introduced himself in a formal manner in private.

You also have to consider that Hakuei has been unmarried for more than a decade and Kou is a country that has a strong belief in blood-ties. Being the first princess might grant special rights and considerations when choosing a spouse for her, but Kougyokou didn't seem to think it was fair that she was being married off in Balbaad while Hakuei remained single.

There's really just a lot to gain for Kou if he does marry her. The gulf between the two branches of the royal family would be bridged. Hakuei holds him in high regard and he probably likes her. It's kind of hard to tell with him. They're both king vessels, both highly ranked in Kou's military and society.

And wind and fire are complimentary elements.
Bogart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 08:42   Link #3765
Bogart
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazo View Post
hakurryuu is more badass and he is ready to do what must be done to obtain what he want(but at the same time he is not a monster)
I'm inclined to think that Hakuryuu is a monster frankly.

Quote:
well... Hakuryuu is the legitimate successor ..so...he is just fixing his world...
At everyone else's expense.

Quote:
...and, unless a member of the kou empire family choose to start a democracy...everybody is here for their own desires (and, altruism is for allibaba and not for a proper king)
If you are a good king at the head of a good government, there is no problem. Democracies aren't better than other forms of government. Frankly, a people are every bit as likely to be corrupt and fickle as an individual, and aren't anywhere near as responsible.

Quote:
well..that is rather tricky...he really need to be a governor to help that city?
there isn't another way to help Balbaad...i can see a little of pride hidden behind his speech
He'd probably follow through on the republican government given the option.

Quote:
lets be honest.. in Hakuryuu place everybody is gonna do the same...(unless this person in a pacifist - broken man)..
Simply putting others before yourself would suffice. Frankly, of all of Kou's royal family, the most heartless is Hakuryuu.

Quote:
and i doubt that everything is gonna be fixed with hakoui marriage(which is probably the next move of kouen-marriage and a son)
What exactly is broken? The fact that an angry little putz like Hakuryuu didn't become king?

Quote:
you can add the problem of the possible participation of kouen/or his family in "rebellion" that killed he first emperor (or the fact that kouen dad took Hakuryuu place as the ruler, and married his mother to obtain the throne )

so , no...there is not such a thing as a future here, till one of the side is dead or in the exile.
Even if the 2nd Emperor was complicit, En was not. And while the assassinations of the 1st Emperor and his sons were indeed crimes, they did not set a precedent that threatened the integrity of the Kou Empire. No one knew who was really responsible and as such the country was not threatened by what had happened.

Compared to now with the flagrant murder of his own mother and the usurpation of the throne for himself, Hakuryuu has threatened the family bonds that hold the Kou Empire together. Even if he were otherwise a good king and ruler (he is very likely incapable of being this), his becoming king would threaten the long term survival of Kou. A short history of back stabbing and treachery is all that awaits them.
Bogart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 10:04   Link #3766
Redhazard
Desert Man
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Can't say I find fault in Hakuryuu's actions.

Kou is an evil empire and he is the legitimate successor.

Sure, in order to avoid a war Alibaba was willing to let go of Balbadd. That's admirable in its own way.

However, fighting for what is right is not really, well, wrong.
Redhazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 10:09   Link #3767
Breimoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
You gotta remember that while a certain someone was letting Al thamen free to do what they wanted for their own advantage, Hakuryuu took measures to make sure they obey the empire and at the moment he has yet to do anything wrong. He hasnt yet hurt the citizien or innocent people.
If En wanted to use al thamen to do what he wanted he should have at least put a leash on them.
Sincerly if i were Hakuryuu at this point i'd ally with Sinbad in exchange for all al thamen's death(possibly using them as fodder against En army) .
Breimoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 10:32   Link #3768
Bogart
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhazard View Post
Can't say I find fault in Hakuryuu's actions.

Kou is an evil empire and he is the legitimate successor.

Sure, in order to avoid a war Alibaba was willing to let go of Balbadd. That's admirable in its own way.

However, fighting for what is right is not really, well, wrong.
He is not fighting for what is right. The whole point to there being clear lines of succession is to avoid a civil war in the first place. Contesting a claim that has no real world bearing on the current state affairs at home and a abroad is nothing short of selfish and short-sighted.

His claim was over-ruled for relatively good reasons. He was too young. He had suffered a very traumatic experience. There was a good chance that he was going to die. He was unfit to rule and that remains the case.

Which brings us to the next point; there is no reason to believe he would actually do a better job than En. Hakuryuu's father is the one that started the Kou Empire's path of conquest. Hakuryuu himself has not expressed any desire to do anything different. He's also using Al-Thamen to achieve his goals.

If you had to choose between En and Hakuryuu, who would you pick?

I'll tell you what; En has not murdered his own mother and instigated a coup. He has not fallen into depravity. He is older. He is wiser. He's done considerably more for the Kou Empire than Hakuryuu has. Most if not all of Kou's King Vessels will support him.
Bogart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 10:33   Link #3769
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhazard View Post
However, fighting for what is right is not really, well, wrong.
For what's right? He's fighting for selfish reasons. He wanted Gyokuen dead because he hates her (which is understandable, but selfish nonetheless), and wants to be king just because he believes he has the right, not because it's the best for the people of Kou. He's not thinking about his people at all; he just thinks about himself.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 10:37   Link #3770
Bogart
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
P.S. Can anyone confirm when Judar arrived in Kou? Was it before or after the 1st Emperor was killed? I believe it is mentioned at some point when Al-Thamen introduced him as the oracle, but I don't know where.
Bogart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 11:00   Link #3771
Redhazard
Desert Man
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
If you had to choose between En and Hakuryuu, who would you pick?
Hakuryuu.

I already told you that since En was okay with using Al-Thamen, I can't say I particularly favor him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
For what's right? He's fighting for selfish reasons. He wanted Gyokuen dead because he hates her (which is understandable, but selfish nonetheless), and wants to be king just because he believes he has the right, not because it's the best for the people of Kou. He's not thinking about his people at all; he just thinks about himself.
As he said this chapter, he hates his mom, but he's not wrong about it and being a king is his right. It comes with being the heir.

The alternative is... letting the evil organization stay in control of the Empire.

So yeah...
Redhazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 11:12   Link #3772
Bogart
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhazard View Post
Hakuryuu.

I already told you that since En was okay with using Al-Thamen, I can't say I particularly favor him.
And Hakuryuu is also using them.

Quote:
As he said this chapter, he hates his mom, but he's not wrong about it and being a king is his right. It comes with being the heir.

The alternative is... letting the evil organization stay in control of the Empire.

So yeah...
Al-Thamen was not in control of Kou. Gyokuen was empress in name only. She had no power. If she tried to assert her rule in any way, it'd probably spark a civil war, which was something Al-Thamen and En did not want.
Bogart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 11:19   Link #3773
Redhazard
Desert Man
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogart View Post
And Hakuryuu is also using them.
Difference is, he actually has them under mind control and (supposedly) killed their leader.

Quote:
Al-Thamen was not in control of Kou. Gyokuen was empress in name only. She had no power. If she tried to assert her rule in any way, it'd probably spark a civil war, which was something Al-Thamen and En did not want.
Assumption.

She stole the title right in front of Kouen; so that's a lot of power for no power.

Last edited by Redhazard; 2014-10-13 at 11:33.
Redhazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 11:32   Link #3774
Nicaea
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Isekai
I'm impressed that Hakuryuu conquered two dungeons. But yeah, whilst he did kill his mother and risks causing a civil war, I can't say that Hakuryuu wasn't in his right. Succession or not, it's not weird to think of En's lot as a bunch of usurpers. If anything I kind of like Hakuryuu showing determination not through speeches about honey and rainbows but actually doing something whilst being willing to deal eith the worst consequences. Teenage angst can get pretty annoying when it's overused.
Nicaea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 12:14   Link #3775
Breimoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
guys, Hakuryuu is smart and has al thamen under complete control (Until shown otherwise)
Kou used al thamen to ruin many countries and has no leash on them letting them do what they want for his advantage .
No discussion there, i'd choose Hakuryuu without hesitation.
You can't blame Hakuryuu for using Al thamen, i repeat
HE has them on a tight leash with mindcontrol
KOU was happy to let them do whatever they wanted bringing civil wars etc etc in other countries.
IF kou wants to blame someone he should have blamed himself, even during the meeting after he learned their true intentions he had no intention on letting them go.
Breimoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 12:57   Link #3776
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
Never assume that you are in full control of something that is living, breathing, thinking, and has a goal that will eventually kill every single thing on the planet.
__________________
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Tempest35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 13:36   Link #3777
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
For what's right? He's fighting for selfish reasons. He wanted Gyokuen dead because he hates her (which is understandable, but selfish nonetheless), and wants to be king just because he believes he has the right, not because it's the best for the people of Kou. He's not thinking about his people at all; he just thinks about himself.
That may be true, but consider the alternative. En, at best, wants to conquer the world, which won't happen without a world war. At worst, he'll actively help Al Thamen destroy it.

So, yes, maybe Hakuryu will cause a civil war that will splinter the Kou empire. But as far as I'm concerned, that's better than letting Gyoukuen or even En in control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Never assume that you are in full control of something that is living, breathing, thinking, and has a goal that will eventually kill every single thing on the planet.
That, and there's Judar to worry about, too. For much the same reasons.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 14:07   Link #3778
shalala
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Under the 7 seas
I wonder what happens to a Djinn once they die? I would take it they go back to the rukh or go back to Hugo and then re-enter the world again.

As for the new Sinbad chapter 37. Looks like Drakon's wife is a music user. Still I would have liked to see each of the Metal vessels adventures into their dungeon that they went into. Plus there really should have been another chapter before that chapter as c37 made it look like it skipped stuff.
shalala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 16:41   Link #3779
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That may be true, but consider the alternative. En, at best, wants to conquer the world, which won't happen without a world war. At worst, he'll actively help Al Thamen destroy it.

So, yes, maybe Hakuryu will cause a civil war that will splinter the Kou empire. But as far as I'm concerned, that's better than letting Gyoukuen or even En in control.
Kouen may want to conquer the world, but that's just a means to an end for him. His goal is to save the world. He said so many times. Hakuryuu on the other hand is just driven by hate and jealousy. Kouen's methods are morally questionable, sure, but Hakuryuu's rotten to the core, which is quite a bigger problem imo.

Hakuryuu will end up destroying the world if not stopped. Hate is like that. Nothing positive can come out of it.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-10-13, 16:47   Link #3780
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Kouen may want to conquer the world, but that's just a means to an end for him. His goal is to save the world. He said so many times. Hakuryuu on the other hand is just driven by hate and jealousy. Kouen's methods are morally questionable, sure, but Hakuryuu's rotten to the core, which is quite a bigger problem imo.

Hakuryuu will end up destroying the world if not stopped. Hate is like that. Nothing positive can come out of it.
Kouen's doing the wrong things for arguably good reasons. (If he can be believed. And if you discount his arrogance, which is part of why he does things, and a terrible reason.) I don't know why his supposed good intentions should give him a pass on the terrible things he's done, and the terrible things he's about to do.

Hakuryu's doing the right things (mixed with some wrong too...) for arguably bad reasons. (Though I'd say "Gyokuen is thoroughly, irredeemably evil" is a good reason to remove her, no matter how personal it gets.)
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fantasy, licensed, manga, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.