2011-12-17, 22:34 | Link #2241 |
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Well, to be fair, Nicol was pretty much performing a kamikazi as it is with the way he just threw himself straight at Kira in order to protect Athrun (just like Tolle did at Athrun soon after; neither of them even seeming to try to dodge).
As for Heinne, that wasn't really totally his fault. It was partially due to his taking his attention off of his surroundings because of a change in the situation, but Kira caused it all with his unnecessary interference and, as Athrun puts it, bringing nothing but chaos to the battlefield. If Kira hadn't just dove right into it and the battle just went as it was going before, Heinne probably would've come out of it fine. Always a chance he couldn't, but those chances would be MUCH lower than after Kira showed up and caused all that confusion. As for Luna, it would've helped if there was some more data stuff that could've given scores in their class...
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2011-12-17, 22:40 | Link #2242 |
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Just admit that Athrun is a war god, he shoots people in the face when he helps Lacus escape the theater, he shoots people in the face when he and Lacus meets Meer. His simply a one man killing machine. Whereas Kira's father only put stats in the "mecha combat" category Athrun's father made sure his son had high categories in everything.
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2011-12-18, 01:37 | Link #2246 |
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@charred Knight
There are plenty of fiction works that the hero does get shot in battle some even do die from mortal wounds. You should be very aware of this. I personally don't appreciate when opponents skills are *dumb-downed* when a MC is involved that is all. |
2011-12-18, 01:50 | Link #2247 |
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Especially if the opponent(s) is shown to be able to perform just as well, if not better than that MC at other times.
SEED/SEED Destiny has shown even grunts being able to fight pretty decently against eachother, actually moving around and all. But when Kira or some other MC comes in...well...they decide to just stand/float there like static targets on a shooting range...
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2011-12-18, 02:10 | Link #2248 |
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The grunts in SEED/Destiny are pretty awful overall. They don't have any tactics, they just either float in space wildly firing their weapons at whatever is in range or they charge straight at ships. They tend to panic and get emotional too, it's a recipe for disaster.
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2011-12-18, 11:39 | Link #2249 | |
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Simply put, SEED Grunts aren't really all that worse then any other grunt and are much better then the grunts in MSG for example. Or Wing. Probably 00 too. |
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2011-12-18, 15:11 | Link #2250 |
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Eh...not really...SEED/SEED Destiny had to be the worst I've ever seen.
At least various UC-era grunts have given MCs a bit of a challenge from time to time and have even caught them off-guard several times where they could have died were it not for the help of another character or MC. Never had that happened in SEED/SEED Destiny really in terms of MS combat. It was usually a named antagonist that did so, not a grunt.
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2011-12-18, 16:11 | Link #2252 | |
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That's because of the difference in the way battles are done, after the One Year War you don't have anymore large scale battles, and even then the only one really shown in the first anime was the battle of Solomon, and A Baoa Qu. In Gundam Seed, and Gundam Seed Destiny, there is a lot more large scale battles like Invasion of Orb, or the battle in Alaska. With battles on a smaller scale it's much easier to show your opponents as competent. As for the level of Grunts, I would put them as much higher than the grunts in Gundam Wing or Gundam 00, the grunts in Gundam seed can at least shoot down opponents. |
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2011-12-18, 16:43 | Link #2253 | ||
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2011-12-18, 17:46 | Link #2254 |
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I never specifically MSG. I said the UC-era.
A couple times being in The 08th MS Team with Karen nearly getting killed twice; once by the Acguy from the lake (took off her Gundam's head and smashed its cockpit in a bit and only when it got distracted by Michel with the hover truck and having Eledore manually assisting her to aim her beam rifle did she manage to luckily take it down) and the 2nd time being a Dom that would've stabbed her through with its heat saber had the Guntank she was guarding not taken it out. You also had Sanders get his Gundam disabled by having its leg shot out by a grunt Magella Attack unit. Emma had to pull back on the Jaburo operation when her Rick Dias was too damaged to survive atmospheric re-entry. And so on. For SEED and SEED Destiny, quite a bit wasn't seen either, even in large scale battles. Most times we do see, it's either grunt vs. grunt and NOT vs. MCs, much less giving them any real trouble at all or one side owning the other in some way, like Alaska was just having the EA forces abandoned there being mopped away by the invading ZAFT forces. And with Orb, it was constantly just showing Asagi, Mayura, and Juri firing at Strike Daggers with beams and explosions around them while the real focus was on Kira and Mwu (and Athrun). I'm certain that soldiers are constantly trained to, even when taken by surprise or some new thing shows up, NEVER to simply stand around in shock, look around in a panic, and such, but to move, drop down, get to cover, evasive maneuvers (in vehicles), something, as being stock still out in the open is the absolute worst thing you could do when fired upon, and grunts in SEED/SEED Destiny do that CONSTANTLY against a MC, allowing them to be picked off like easy target practice. Grunts we see in UC have at least done THAT much a lot more often than SEED/SEED Destiny ones, even against Mobile Armors like the Neue Ziel.
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2011-12-18, 19:19 | Link #2256 |
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They were still MCs as well though, so "grunt" in terms of overall military standing in-universe, but not SO much in terms of being totally nameless, unknown people (to us anyway) who, if they die, we wouldn't care like so many others, much less SEED/SEED Destiny, so they can't exactly be compared.
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2011-12-18, 20:30 | Link #2257 | |||
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2011-12-18, 20:38 | Link #2258 |
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In the large scale battles such as the invasion of Orb and Jaqin Due the grunts behave the same. They hover in the air or play stationary turret in the ground waiting to be shot. We can't justify their piss poor performance.
I just went back and rewatched a couple of scenes from Destiny around the time of hte Orb invasion and all I saw was Astrays sitting there firing at misiles and getting blown up, and then Goufs hovering in the air waiting for Cagalli to shoot them down. One of the guys who I think was a red coat is walking around and doesn't even realize he's been shot until his mobile suit starts blowing up around him. Seriously man, where the hell are the sensors? We've had ways to tell when a plane or tank is being locked on by an infrared targeting system, or a laser one since the 1960 or so, maybe even earlier. Apparently in CE they don't have that anymore, there's no way to tell when someone has you locked on, or heck that they're even near you it seems....Then there's Freedom, for some reason Kira is so good that all those mobile suits he's locking on to decide to sit there and not move and take evasive maneuvers to shake off his aim... Then there's the issue of mental health. Whether it be ZAFT or the Alliance they all seem to be psychopaths who'd like nothing more than to kill a whole bunch of the other guys. The guys who launch the nukes just going nuts just before firing, and then the ZAFTies going apeshit and killing guys trying to retreat and disabled suits...That kind of behavior is unacceptable from a professional soldier. Like I said before, they are way too emotional and that plays a big factor into their combat performance.
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2011-12-18, 21:34 | Link #2259 |
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The only way I'd see it justified, at least by the end of SEED, is because of the guys being completely green and, like how Zeon did in MSG, simply yanked them up and threw them out onto the battlefield simply to buffer their own numbers.
In terms of SEED Destiny though, that can't be the reason as it's been 2 years since the end of SEED. A lot of the aforementioned actions are still done mostly by adults too outside of the Druggies/Extendeds and such...
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2011-12-19, 00:59 | Link #2260 | |
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Off topic.
I stopped getting involved in grunt arguments years ago but i do have a question. If freedom has a functioning targeting/tracking system onboard and used at will, what is preventing other militaries from using similar electronic devices? If they are installed how does freedom somehow manages to appear out of nowhere? Quote:
Last edited by winter45; 2011-12-19 at 01:34. |
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