2007-04-29, 12:13 | Link #41 |
Team Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest - I suppose it says something about the potential of MKV that its defenders are so dedicated.
To start - I didn't call anyone a republican, I compared someone to a republican, in respect to the practice of using ad hominem and straw man arguments to make a point, and the ineffectiveness of such points upon myself. Liberal vs conservative wasn't really what I was aiming at or talking about. There seem to be two assumptions here that I operate from, and yet aren't being applied generally. So I will explain them here, in the hopes of better defending my position. First, at least in an American court, a verdict is not a yes or no thing. It is true that it starts with guilty or not guilty - but the charges offered in the first place and the sentence that ultimate results are based on a sliding scale that allows the judge to take into consideration all of the elements of a case when making the final decisions. As an example - if you get arrested for carrying drugs, you can be charged with possession of an illegal substance - generally a misdemeanor. If you were planning to sell it, then that results in a more severe charge (possession of an illegal substance with intent to distribute - a felony charge), and if you were planning to sell it to kids, then you're in even bigger trouble (possession of an illegal substance with intent to distribute to minors - a major felony). That's a sliding scale that applies even before the trial has begun. Once found guilty (there's considerations there, too, BTW, that can get you cleared even if the state can prove a crime was committed) the judge has to pass a sentence, which is generally within a preset range of fines and penalties. Among the things a judge considers when deciding your sentence is what kind of drug it was, whether you'd actually managed to sell it, where you got it, how well you cooperated with the police, and even how remorseful you are that you committed such an act in the first place. This is just an illustrative example, but it demonstrates my point - there is no black and white standard in the legal world, for anything. Even murderers get subjective sentencing. Also at stake here is potential future rulings. IP law is still in its infancy, especially with respect to the internet, so many of these issues are undecided as of now. Future rulings will depend in part on the intent and degree of criminality practiced by the defendants. It's not implausible that choices made by the fansubbing community today could have unforeseen results in the future. In such a case, I can't help but preach caution and responsibility. The second point is that the consumer deserves respect - even leaches. I deliberately said "consumer", not "customer", the key difference being that no money was exchanged - one doesn't have to have paid for something to consume it. Consumers are the reason for this whole setup. Without consumption there is no demand for the product, and as a result no underground cottage industry to produce it. If you really make fansubs just for yourself, then why distribute. You can obtain recorded copies of things for yourself and even translate and sub them for the enjoyment of yourself and a few friends under the fair use standard - otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to record television. The critical point that makes this illegal is mass distribution - so why break the law if you don't care about the general consumer? As I said, those are the assumptions I start with. The end results I have already posted, so I won't repeat myself. I respect the differences in opinion sited in the previous posts, but I continue to worry about the careless decisions made for the sake of new technology and the directions it could lead in the future. BTW, TheFluff - the whole video quality issue is a long established legal test, going back to the Sony VCR ruling, and more recently applied against Napster and Grokster. You may want to check out the case law, if you want to continue to imply that people are stupid for using it. |
2007-04-29, 12:46 | Link #43 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
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in either case, if its "high quality" or 160x120 .rm stuff that is blurry as fuck, the licensing company is most likly going to rape you for all you are worth. Quote:
Last edited by epic59; 2007-04-29 at 12:55. Reason: angsty |
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2007-04-29, 13:05 | Link #45 | ||||||
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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Whether I "respect" them or not doesn't matter in the slightest. I don't fucking care if you only have an extremely shitty computer or if you are so poor you can't afford a HDTV or whatever. There are numerous guides that explain how to re-encode, demux, transcode etc. etc. ad nauseam. If you can't figure out how to do it, that's your problem, not mine. I don't do this for you, I do it for my own satisfaction. I guess that by "deserves respect" you really mean "leeches should decide what fansubbers should do because they are so many more and they are the ones who are watching the stuff anyway", but I'm sorry, I don't think I can agree with that. Quote:
2. As I said, I think copyright law as it is right now is really really stupid, and since the risk of getting caught is approximately zero at the moment I'm going to ignore it 3. I believe free enjoyment of anime for more people than just myself and my select few friends is a good thing Although, sometimes people like you makes me wonder why the heck I bother at all. :V Quote:
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Also, I guess that by this argument you mean that by established case law, you can get away with "a slap on the wrist" for distributing illegal full-length movies, musical albums or anime episodes, as long as the quality is shit. Well, I've seen weirder interpretations of the law, but not many. :V EDIT: Summary: your entire argument is completely absurd. Fansubbing is already (and has always been) highly illegal. Adding or subtracting small things like softsubs or HD resolutions from the current XviD/MP3 fansubs may possibly make a difference of a few million in fines... but when you're going to have to pay at least $50 million or something absurd like that anyway, why the heck would it matter?
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2007-04-29, 13:41 | Link #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Everyone else has taken care of the other parts of this post, but there was something left untouched.
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2007-04-29, 14:12 | Link #47 | |
Rararu~
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Well, in MY country(Singapore), as long as you carry more than 15g of heroin with you, you are charged with a compulsory death sentence, no matter what you plan to do with the drugs. By the way, do you know that there are established copyright related laws pertaining to Japanese song lyrics? JASRAC has shut down several sites over the years which post kanji lyrics etc... Guess what is found on practically all the anime being fansubbed these days? |
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2007-04-29, 17:43 | Link #49 |
In exile
Join Date: May 2006
Location: There! Not there! There!
Age: 36
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What a horrid topic this became...
My responses: 1. mkv can be viewed on a PC that can view avi as long as the right software is installed. (There is no hardware limitation between mkv and avi) 2. Fansub ethics? Caution and responsibility?... lol? Which recent animes have a plot? One that hasn't been recycled for the billionth time?
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2007-04-29, 18:03 | Link #50 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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Actually, I'm no legal scholar, but I suspect that the issue of generational copy degradation is one that will quickly go into the annals of legal history. I don't think any court has had the balls to rule against previous precedents in that respect from the VHS days, but once they do, it'll be out the window. I mean, in this world of perfect digital copies, the lowering of quality is a CHOICE, not a NECESSITY. If I wanted a perfect copy of a DVD, that's easy to make. In the VHS days, making nearly perfect copies was almost impossible except with multi thousand dollar professional equipment (and even then, it's impossible to make PERFECT copies). So then, where does a court draw the line in terms of today? If I lower the bitrate by 10%? 50%? It's an arbitrary decision and the only reasonable definition would be to declare all copies, no matter now degraded in quality, as illegal duplications. All those rulings from the VHS days will eventually be overturned and they will not matter one whit in how current day intellectual property law is applied. That's my opinion, anyway. Now, wasn't this discussion supposed to be about how "great" mkv is? (Yay mp4!)
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2007-04-29, 18:05 | Link #51 |
Doremi-fansubs founder
Fansubber
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I"ll just throw my hat in and say that .avi is still the easiest to work with in Virtual Dub. Takes around 30 minutes to do a 2 pass Xvid on a Core solo laptop.
Then again, I don't use any filters at all and I don't see many people complain anyway.
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2007-04-29, 18:06 | Link #52 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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Hah! I wouldn't put it past them, either. Japanese record companies are scary.
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2007-04-29, 18:08 | Link #53 | |
Infie
Fansubber
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas
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30min? Fast indeed. 47-54min on average here. |
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2007-04-29, 23:39 | Link #54 | |
Team Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2007-05-04, 09:54 | Link #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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heh.
Keep the discussion clean now eh people Meh, had some help from TheFluff on IRC regarding encoding in H.264 with MeGUI. I'm confronted with another issue. Whenever I encode in H.264, the only result is either, blocking, blocking or lots and lots blocking. And I still don't know where the @#$% the blocking is coming from since I use pre-defined settings, which arn't working either >_< So for now I encode to AVI (h.264) and mux that in MKV until I find out why meGUI is making such a crap out of my encodes. Vdub I still use for XviD btw ^^ |
2007-05-04, 10:18 | Link #60 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Netherlands, The
Age: 35
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Blocking in dark areas is a known issue with x264, but I have no idea why this does not happen to you when using x264 in VFW mode, and it should not be that noticeable. Do you see the same artifacts in x264 encodes done by others? Try going to the Zones tab in the Video configuration tab, selecting your favorite profile and typing in --aq-strength 1.1 in the Custom Commandline Options text box. Press Update to confirm the change and encode another video. Did this fix your problem? Most likely not, but I'm trying to narrow down the problem.
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