(CR) Shuumatsu no Izetta

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kilian

Also...

Its alternate history you will likely see even more real life buildings there

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

Elystadt is clearly Austria, given its location. Based on what little we've seen, it appears to be some sort of (presumably constitutional) monarchy from what we've seen, with Fine as a beloved figurehead, whose role in diplomacy seems to be more informal, but nonetheless having a major impact- as the British ambassador said, her marriage to their prince would not officially cement an alliance, but the royal family would definitely have pull in parliament. Interestingly, as of the Germanian invasion of Thermidor/France, Eylstadt/Austria has not been annexed, unlike in real life.

As Kakurin said its only a small part of it - not even the full part of that (see below)

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

That's not quite correct. Eylstadt encompasses only the western Austrian provinces of Vorarlberg and Tyrol, which is a small part of Austria. The vast majority of Austria is shown to be Germanian.

I have yet to see the episode, although from the trailer I can say the majority seems to be a completely separate country (there are borders in between) . Some other parts of the western end where added to both Germania and Westeria. Liechentenstein (Country) doesn't exist at all.

Its really hard to tell though cause the map is rather crude.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I have yet to see the episode, although from the trailer I can say the majority seems to be a completely separate country (there are borders in between) . Some other parts of the western end where added to both Germania and Westeria. Liechentenstein (Country) doesn't exist at all.

Here's the map from the episode:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Other than Eylstadt it's pretty much the historical borders of 1939. Well, they were so good and decided to place Austria as seperate instead of just turning it into the Greater Germanian Reich. Liechtenstein is so small. No problem in just ignoring that.

[Arya]

Strong first episode, I hadn't intention to see it since I don't like much magic, but I really liked it, well almost, not much from the moment izetta woke up, so I'll give the three ep. rule, Fine is really a fine princess and I'm glad to have a strong protagonist, so if the show doesn't bend too much into the magic territory but manages to balance it out I should be fine. Again the first episode was very good so I hope it keeps it up.
About fine being to good, well, I generally prefer a more realistic approach and given the context so it seems, Fine is a strong girl within a WW2 scenario where her country is not, so she has to be strong otherwise all the work would have been put on the witch shoulders. Instead here it may shape out as Fine is the brain and Izetta the brown, sort of.

[mergele]

My impression so far: very fragile. I liked the first episode, but I am worried about the future. Given the setting and tone I have a rather low suspension of disbelieve. It's 1940, the allies are not strong enough to attack and the soviets military organization at the moment isn't adequat either. If they are going with "We will stay independant" good end Elystadt will have to hold out for years. On the other hand the first episode seemed more diplomacy/espionage like, but at that point in time there just isn't very much to be done that way. Maybe Italy and Hungary could flip, there wasn't anything said about these two? Other options would be a guerillia/resistance approach, or they go into exile somewhere, I am very sceptical about the first and the second seems to be ruled out by the princess big speach at the end and what that specops major said earlier (though convincing her to do so could be turned into a plot point).

[felix]

No complaints on the quality, but the series doesn't really grab me.

[Harbinger]

Very promising first episode. It has the potential of being one of the better anime for this season and may fill the void left by Re:Zero

[PreSage]

I like the Princess. I had expected the Witch, Izzeta, to have a slightly different personality but I guess it may be too soon to know. I'll give this show a few more episodes.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

Contrast this with Fine after she saw Izetta awaken. Here is someone who reminds her of her presumably more carefree childhood. Here is an old friend to whom she might have shown her personal side. Here is a link to a less hostile past. Almost as soon as Fine recognized Izetta, she fainted. Certainly this is someone an entirely human reaction after many days of a continuous and harrowing journey. Here is the human side to her, when she does not need to act the role of the unwaivering leader. Here is the side of the normal human that the series can expand upon in later episodes.

She's still all strength. Heck, her flashback to her childhood is about her saving Izetta (and getting the scar and the witch's undying loyalty in the process), and look how at the end of the episode Izetta's the one crying while Fine keeps her composure even though the latter's the one being saved. The series tries so hard to show how emotionally strong she is in all situations that there's no balance whatsoever to her characterization.

It is plainly false to claim that Fine is a one dimensional character, even from what we have seen thus far.

Right now she's one dimensional. Let's wait and see if there's more than strengths to her character. I'm willing to be surprised.

Originally Posted by xrick

It's been only 1 episode, try to keep an open mind, ok?

Well, I did say I was giving it one more episode, didn't I?

[Harry Dresden]

Yeah, Eylstadt seems to be a small portion of Austria, while most of not-Austria seems to have been taken over by germany, just like in the real world, while most of this episode seems to happen in Switzerland.

The choice to name the NotHitler as "Emperor" is baffling though as the very idea of Hitler's manipulation of society relied on NOT calling himself that. His regime was supposed to reject the ideas of "old monarchy" that failed them the WW1. Its why he chose a new title for himself instead of Kaiser or Emperor. Unless there's some HUGE reason for it here(ex: maybe he was assassinated or something?), there's no way a nazi regime would be led by someone calling themselves "emperor" or "kaiser". Yet the social structure seems to be the same, cown to secret police and experimentation and they still use the exact same tactics Nazi Germany did. Unless this is usual japanese apologism at play her to "erase" fascism from the story, there HAS to be a plausible logical reason for that.
I just hope "NotGermany" does not end up being portrayed as "misguided" or "misunderstood" or something, because ughhh, no, shouldn't have made this a not-WW2 then.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She's still all strength and positives qualities. Heck, her flashback to her childhood is she saving Izetta (and getting that scar in the process), and look how at the end Izetta's the one crying after meeting her again while Fine keeps her composer even though she's the one being saved. The series tries so hard to show how emotionally strong she is that there's no balance whatsoever to her characterization.

As I was saying realistically speaking you need a strong character to have a chance given the context they are in. And the most balanced one is to have the "mind" strong enough to be credible in handling (or better in trying to) what will come, leaving to the witch the character growth you are asking for, like if izetta is a bit of unstable or emotive Fine will have to deal with politic intrigues and her character too (I didn't get exactly this feeling, it's an example).
What I mean, is that what they aimed to is balancing the settings, characterization has all the time of the series, but if you set a premise too unbalanced it will be hard to patch up without having to force things for example relying too much on the magic elements (aka like having to make the witch OP or the like).

Speaking of character growth I don't think you always need to have a character to go from point A to point B to have a rounded character. You can expand and work making him/her complex without having to develop from bad to good.
Honestly I find this kind of approach a bit simplistic; a more interesting approach to take would be to flash the characters out starting from their dynamics, using it to make make them rounded.

An example for me is Worrick and Nicolas from GANGSTA in comparison to Orga and Mika from Gundam IBO. While both series had their problems, both couples had a great start in their own universes, but while Okada wasted all the chemistry and charm of her characters letting them get stale because reasons, GANGSTA made a very remarkable work with Worrick and Nicolas, and in half of the time, or even less, considering the big troubles the studio was having.
So, they can (not sure if they will) take this route, it's just that is more difficult to write.

Having said that I don't know how they will deal with them here, so I can see your doubts, the magical elements makes me always very sceptical because they tend to take over, that's why I usually stay away from magical shows. So if you don't like strong characters well, it's fine ()

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

As I was saying realistically speaking you need a strong character to have a chance given the context they are in. And the most balanced one is to have the "mind" strong enough to be credible in handling (or better in trying to) what will come

A character can have some emotional fragility or weakness and still be very competent. I mentioned Nogi Wakaba in a previous post, and Alisha from Zesteria the X is also a pretty good example. Alisha was a total emotional wreck in the first episode, but look how competent and strong she is when she has to.

leaving to the witch the character growth you are asking for, like if izetta is a bit of unstable or emotive Fine will have to deal with politic intrigues and her character too (I didn't get exactly this feeling, it's an example).

If only the witch is emotionally weak, that's going to make Fine look even more one-dimentional. Ideally, they both should have weaknesses to overcome by learning from one another. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they're going in that direction.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If only the witch is emotionally weak, that's going to make Fine look even more one-dimentional. Ideally, they both should have weaknesses to overcome by learning from one another. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they're going in that direction.

Well, I hope to have two levelheaded characters. Having an emotional weak character for the sake of drama would surely push me away considering that given the context the drama could come regardless. Still being a "freak" surely is more than enough to justify the witch for not being that strong if it will be the case.

In any case it's all up to the writing quality, as usual. I mean, so far I'm glad to have a levelheaded and competent princess, the usual idealistic princess would not have worked here, given the realistic context she has been put into (letting aside the witch).

As I said, there's all the time to round her, flashing out her fragility, I'd say for one, that she has been staying strong during the whole episode, that's the impression I got. But if they had failed establishing the balance of the settings making her weak that would be a bigger problem (for me of course). Of course they could have made both, but considering the whole length of the episode they did a pretty good job with her characterization, sure nothing got thrown at our faces, but some subtlety is always welcomed, opposed to the heavy hand writing (if not just bad writing) I've come across lately. My point is there's room here, but I get your point.
I'd be fine anyways, but it's just a matter of tastes, I prefer a more static character to a dynamic one if said dynamic character will undermine the story coherence or its realism, but of course YMMV.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

I'd be fine anyways, but it's just a matter of tastes, I prefer a more static character to a dynamic one if said dynamic character will undermine the story coherence or its realism, but of course YMMV.

I can take static characters if they aren't the main protagonist. When the protagonist is a fully realized character from the get go, everyone else looks bad in comparison, which in turn makes the main character feel overly perfect. This series isn't quite there yet but...

I think the only such character I ever liked was Hajime from Gatchaman Crowds, but only because she was more a representation of an ideal than an actual character, and the show was pretty self-aware in that respect. That gave her a depth static characters usually don't have. She still made everyone else look bad in caparison though.

Originally Posted by Arya

In any case it's all up to the writing quality, as usual. I mean, so far I'm glad to have a levelheaded and competent princess

Like I said, it's perfectly possible for a very competent character to have some emotional flaw or fragility.

[Tenzen12]

That's not really how it works. Being fully realized character by no means mean perfect. It just means character in question know his/her limits and role to play. Fine is good example, she is strong-willed and probably decent diplomate, but she is no fighter, that's why she had her bodyguards and now witch girl. Everyone can shine in their own field of expertise.

That said I doubt Fine is experienced and capable enough to get best possible results facing Germania war machinery at this point.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Like I said, it's perfectly possible for a very competent character to have some emotional flaw or fragility.

It's as Fine said herself, there will be time for tears later.

You call it one dimensional, I call it needed. There's a war going on and people in her position need to be all-bearing pillars while the war is going on. She also spent all of 5 minutes not being chased or captive, not exactly a great time to expect her to show her fragile flower side.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Being fully realized character by no means mean perfect.

I never said that.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I can take static characters if they aren't the main protagonist. When the protagonist is a fully realized character from the get go, everyone else looks bad in comparison, which in turn makes the main character feel overly perfect. This series isn't quite there yet but....

You practically did.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

You practically did.

I meant what I posted, and it's not what you said I posted.

[James Rye]

Reminds me a lot of Maria no Junketsuu, just with modern weapons and only one witch it seems. Looks great so far, though I doubt a single witch can beat an entire evil realm by herself if she was already taken prisoner before after wiping out just one company. Certainly her magic is strong given what she just did to that plane, but even she is only one girl against an entire army/spy network/secret service/assassins/traitors/etc. She and Finé probably gonna need Britannia or even Amiland or Russkia help or whatever their names are in that universe to win against Germania.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Yeah, Eylstadt seems to be a small portion of Austria, while most of not-Austria seems to have been taken over by germany, just like in the real world, while most of this episode seems to happen in Switzerland.

The choice to name the NotHitler as "Emperor" is baffling though as the very idea of Hitler's manipulation of society relied on NOT calling himself that. His regime was supposed to reject the ideas of "old monarchy" that failed them the WW1. Its why he chose a new title for himself instead of Kaiser or Emperor. Unless there's some HUGE reason for it here(ex: maybe he was assassinated or something?), there's no way a nazi regime would be led by someone calling themselves "emperor" or "kaiser". Yet the social structure seems to be the same, cown to secret police and experimentation and they still use the exact same tactics Nazi Germany did. Unless this is usual japanese apologism at play her to "erase" fascism from the story, there HAS to be a plausible logical reason for that.
I just hope "NotGermany" does not end up being portrayed as "misguided" or "misunderstood" or something, because ughhh, no, shouldn't have made this a not-WW2 then.

So maybe the point is that WW1 went differently in this world? For all we know the old Kaiser never stopped reigning. I mean, looking at the borders it doesn't look TOO different - Italy still has Istria and Dalmatia - but the Austro-Hungarian empire looks like it was split differently. So perhaps something diverged at that point, and this is really still the Empire trying its hand at expansionism.