Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Fate/Apocrypha, Episode 16.

Thread Guidelines

• Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
• Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.
  If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message, or seek out a more appropriate thread.
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.
• Character bashing is not on-topic and will not be tolerated.
• Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.

Episode Thread Spoiler Policy

• Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
  Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
  Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy for more information.
• Adding a Spoiler tag:
  

  Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms. Make sure that you include a useful title!

• Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:
  

  Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar. Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators locate and deal with problems quickly.

• Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.
  Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
  The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

[serenade_beta]

I know I'm about 10 episodes too late to say this...

But damn, this is a terrible story.
And the animation quality is dropping like in free fall.
But it kinda fits.

Anyways... I'll assume the original source is the one at fault for this spaghetti.

[John117xCortana]

I'm sorry but everytime I see Jack the Ripper and I hear her voice I keep seeing Carcaptor Sakura doing all those things Jack is doing and.....it's freaking me out and giving me the creeps....

[Twi]

Nice to see that Jack remains a murderous monster. Actively kicking them while they're down is a dirty blow, and potentially world-ending considering the state of the war.

[Kanon]

Why didn't Fiore use a command spell to summon Chiron? No use in saving them if it gets you killed.

It looks like Sieg is doomed to die at the end of the series, unless he gets cured by the Grail or something.

Some people must have gone crazy seeing Astolfo in casual clothing

[Dengar]

So on top of the usual Presence Concealment, she posesses some skill or NP that makes people forget everything about her. That's pretty scary for an Assassin. That means that the usual weakness of "must kill their target on their first attempt" doesn't apply here.

Compared to that, Assassin of Red doesn't seem much like an Assassin at all.

[willyvereb]

Well, so far Red Assassin is still winning with the score of 5 to 0 against Jack.
Granted, those 5 masters were from the Red team but who cares about the details.

[Dengar]

Those masters are still alive though. Shirou doesn't seem like the type who lies.

[willyvereb]

AFAIK they are alive, not like it makes a difference. They are entirely out of the game. They are incapacitated and lost their Command Spells as well as their Servants are now aligned with Shirou. If anything this is better than just killing the masters.
But yeah, so far Red Assassin is way more of a Caster than anything.
Doesn't change the fact that ironically her score in the war is higher than the actual Assassin on the Black side.
Heck, amusingly enough Mordred killed more masters than Jack. It's an interesting contrast, to say the least.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Why didn't Fiore use a command spell to summon Chiron? No use in saving them if it gets you killed.

Yeah, I don't get why she just didn't use one. She hasn't used any so far and she's in an alliance with Ruler, so there wasn't much point in being stingy with them at that point.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Yeah, I don't get why she just didn't use one. She hasn't used any so far and she's in an alliance with Ruler, so there wasn't much point in being stingy with them at that point.

Because that would be rational, which is this story's kryptonite. The complete rejection of all reason and logic is what it is based on,even more then most Fate works.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Dengar

So on top of the usual Presence Concealment, she posesses some skill or NP that makes people forget everything about her. That's pretty scary for an Assassin. That means that the usual weakness of "must kill their target on their first attempt" doesn't apply here.

and it makes perfect sense for her to have a noble phantasm like that because when he was alive nobody knew the identity of jack the ripper except that name, the face, age, gender, the whole identity was completely unknown even now people don't really know who they were(sure they suspect some people but no definitive proof) so fate's jack having the ability to erase everything about her except her name makes complete sense, and would have put her as a master assassin if not for the whole loli bit probably

[Dengar]

I wonder why I feel like I'm the only one who isn't put off by the whole loli thing. I'm not sure what makes me different. I'm not even a lolicon (I cringe at a lot of the less serious parts of Prisma Illya).

[IceHism]

I'm sort of disappointed that they just revealed shirou's plan and then they decided to take this detour to stall for time.

[Dengar]

I'm not sure if this is actually stalling for time. That's like saying the Caster arc in Fate/Zero was stalling for time. The game getting thrown off the rails because of some unexpected variable is the bread and butter of a grail war.

[Proto]

The event itself is not the problem but the storytelling is leaves something to be desired. Even if you throw a spanner in the works with an ultra chaotic character that doesn't mean everyone has to pause and dedicate 100% of the narrative to it. As a reference on what would be the alternative, think the Rail Tracer in Baccano or any of the story arcs in Durarara.

You have a complete mixture of simultaneous plotlines that mesh, combine and explode together in multiple and unpredictable ways. That's the beauty of a free for all that you wouldn't have otherwise in a 1v1 conflict. Done like this makes for a less interesting watch I think

[Dengar]

First you say simultaneous plotlines that mesh and explode in unpredictable ways are beautiful and then in the next sentence you say they are a less interesting watch. Which is it?

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm not sure if this is actually stalling for time. That's like saying the Caster arc in Fate/Zero was stalling for time. The game getting thrown off the rails because of some unexpected variable is the bread and butter of a grail war.

Except caster arc is literally caster doing things to make people come to him (summoning a gigantic monster in the city) while here we have the black faction literally trying to track Jack down cause she pulled out a few hearts.

[Dengar]

....A few?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

and it makes perfect sense for her to have a noble phantasm like that because when he was alive nobody knew the identity of jack the ripper except that name, the face, age, gender, the whole identity was completely unknown even now people don't really know who they were(sure they suspect some people but no definitive proof) so fate's jack having the ability to erase everything about her except her name makes complete sense, and would have put her as a master assassin if not for the whole loli bit probably

Didn't Jack leave semen on the scene? That kinda settles it for the sex.