[Manga] Chapter 512 Discussion

[Kafriel]

So, making the clones makes it much harder to make the jyubi, and Madara just got a freshly-dug out army of premium Akatsuki material that comes with a full-power Sasuke... he'd be better off making 100k KBs instead

the whole mentioning of kabuto reminded me of something.

How does Kabuto know that Nagato was pain and that he was in Akatsuki?

As far as I knew only a handful of people knew Nagatos identity. Is this a plot hole?

Perhaps Orochimaru was one of them?

[Ero-Senn1n]

It seems that lately Kishimoto is using too large numbers
First Konan's exploding tags, now 100,000 clones and 80,000 ninja army.
That's like 16,000 ninjas from Konoha? I've never seen even 5000 konoha ninjas fighting against something or someone, for example against Pain
Of course as always: "they were on missions"
For example 2000 genins were saving cats, other 1500 genins were helping old ladies...

BTW the following part of the spoiler should be corrected:

-Kabutomaru, to prove his loyalty, has revealed important info about the Shinobi Army (it is an 80,000 person force), he also reveals info on Zetsu and Hashirama who is apparently alive

- Kabutomaru wants to prove his loyalty by capturing the 9 tails
- important info about the shinoby army and the demons is revealed by Kisame's scroll (Kisame was spying in the alliance headquaters), Kabuto is just repeating the info for the readers
- it's just a recreated body of Hashirama, using the stolen cells, it does not have a mind of it's own since it is not Hashirama himself

Well it turns out that Madara is even better with body experiments than Orochimaru ever was. This guy successfully took some cells from Hashirama's body while they were fighting, i guess he used Zetsu's very special powers for all these wierd creations. I wonder how much is Zetsu under Madara's influence. Sure, again it seems to be that bloodline > science. Orochimaru experimented and did all sort of shit but he never reached the level on which Zetsu is

Gaara leaving the main forces might be a sign that they will be crushed and many will die. Because i think Kishi gives Gaara plot shield, so separating him from the army might be a good sign, a sign that finally we might see a real bloody war where important people die.

[Slayerx]

A clone army? is that really what we are going with?
What was that some people were saying about Madara pulling an army out of his ass

Originally Posted by james0246

Honestly, the Jinchuuriki are the make or break aspect of the war (if they fall into Madara's hands, then all is lost), so sending a Kage or two to help them, especially after their position has been comprimised, isn't that far-fetched.

Except the chapter also establishes that their position hasn't been compromised due to the fact that the island they are on is constantly moving... though i guess the plot does demand that Kabuto will find them anyway. though i do find it rather off that madara last chapter gets himself all decked out in a new mask, preparing to fight, says they must capture the kyuubi... and then goes and sends someone else... kinda made it seem like he was gonna handle this personally

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It seems that lately Kishimoto is using too large numbers
First Konan's exploding tags, now 100,000 clones and 80,000 ninja army.
That's like 16,000 ninjas from Konoha? I've never seen even 5000 konoha ninjas fighting against something or someone, for example against Pain
Of course as always: "they were on missions"
For example 2000 genins were saving cats, other 1500 genins were helping old ladies...

I think that Kishi wants to show a war, so unlike BLEACH and One Piece, this one has actual army numbers of at least 30k or more. Frankly, 100k is pretty decent for a world war, considering it's allied forces VS Madara's troops.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

Honestly, the Jinchuuriki are the make or break aspect of the war (if they fall into Madara's hands, then all is lost), so sending a Kage or two to help them, especially after their position has been comprimised, isn't that far-fetched.

Would you send the president to protect a soldier?

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Would you send the president to protect a soldier?

to be fair, the "solider" in this case is the equivalent to some kind of tactical super weapon of controlled mass destruction, and the "president" is FAR more capable than any other soldier in their employ... also technically, the kage's are more like supreme military commanders; the president would be the lord of their country

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

to be fair, the "solider" in this case is the equivalent to some kind of tactical super weapon of controlled mass destruction, and the "president" is FAR more capable than any other soldier in their employ... also technically, the kage's are more like supreme military commanders; the president would be the lord of their country

Even so, as supreme military commanders, the Kages are in charge of managing their respective military forces and collaborating with one another. And their input will be especially needed during preparation for the upcoming ninja war.

Gaara really has nothing better to do than bodyguard duty?

[Kanon]

You've got to be kidding me. Clone wars now? Come on...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Except the chapter also establishes that their position hasn't been compromised due to the fact that the island they are on is constantly moving... though i guess the plot does demand that Kabuto will find them anyway. though i do find it rather off that madara last chapter gets himself all decked out in a new mask, preparing to fight, says they must capture the kyuubi... and then goes and sends someone else... kinda made it seem like he was gonna handle this personally

Madara said that it was time to capture the Kyuubi, not that he'd be the one to do it. Though I do know what you mean. That's a typical misleading cliffhanger. And with the ability to search by air on Deidara's clay birds, they probably won't have a hard time finding the island even if it's moving if Kisame gave them its location. I mean, how fast could that giant turtle really be swimming?

As for the kages being sent to aid for Naruto, it's probably no coincidence that Kabuto is taking along zombie Deidara while Onoki, the kage for Iwa (Deidara's home village) is going to help out Naruto. This seems like a setup to delve more into Deidara's past. It'll be interesting to see what kind of relationship Deidara may have had with the old man.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I think that Kishi wants to show a war, so unlike BLEACH and One Piece, this one has actual army numbers of at least 30k or more. Frankly, 100k is pretty decent for a world war, considering it's allied forces VS Madara's troops.

The battles between the large armies will probably happen mostly offscreen though. We'll see the aftermath with bodies laying on the battlefields or hear about what's happening on the war fronts from other characters.

[haegar]

while I'd be more for the large armies battle ... this might also turn out to be a somewhat lame setup for Naruto to pull of a tajou kagebunshin like none seen before with his now really badass chakra reserve that holds the zetsu army at bay or decimates it enough for the others to handle the rest? I mean who better to deal with a clone host than Naruto eh?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Would you send the president to protect a soldier?

No, but I would send the strongest forces I have to help protect my nuclear weapons (the Jinchuuriki) from being stolen. Hence a Kage or two going to make sure the Jinchuuriki are well protected makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Gaara really has nothing better to do than bodyguard duty?

What does Gaara know of making strategies and planning for wars? Oonoki should be the one you are complaining about considering he has the most experience out of everyone in the Kage meeting (and even then, it doesn't really matter since E is the one in charge of the combined forces).

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I think that Kishi wants to show a war, so unlike BLEACH and One Piece, this one has actual army numbers of at least 30k or more. Frankly, 100k is pretty decent for a world war, considering it's allied forces VS Madara's troops.

The marines that fought in the Whitebeard War (in One Piece) numbered in the 100 thousands. It was the other side, the pirates, that lacked real numbers .

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

No, but I would send the strongest forces I have to help protect my nuclear weapons (the Jinchuuriki) from being stolen. Hence a Kage or two going to make sure the Jinchuuriki are well protected makes perfect sense.

What does Gaara know of making strategies and planning for wars? Oonoki should be the one you are complaining about considering he has the most experience out of everyone in the Kage meeting (and even then, it doesn't really matter since E is the one in charge of the combined forces).

Yeah, this is exactly what happens when you elect people based on their combat capabilities rather than their leadership and political experience.

Well, at least they don't have 600 billion soldiers in their army.

[Kafriel]

The marines that fought in the Whitebeard War (in One Piece) numbered in the 100 thousands. It was the other side, the pirates, that lacked real numbers .

Really? I don't remember their numbers being mentioned, although they surely were...many

Well, at least they don't have 600 billion soldiers in their army.

How many square meters do 600 billion soldiers occupy anyway!?

[Johnny]

It'll be nice seeing Deidara die again, yeah...!

I don't see what's the problem with sending this or that person. I mean if Naruto and Bee are captured your screwed. I'd send little old ladies if they were bad ass enough to fight as well...

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

How many square meters do 600 billion soldiers occupy anyway!?

if i assume 600 billion soldiers = 600.000.000.000 (1 billion can be 1.000.000.000 or 1.000.000.000.0000 depending of the country) and that a single square meter allows 4 average men.

6x10^11/4= 1.5x10^11 m^2

1 km^2= 1x10^6 m^2

so your 600billion soldiers would occupy 150.000 km^2... that's close the size of the State of Georgia or Greece in european terms!

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Fran~

if i assume 600 billion soldiers = 600.000.000.000 (1 billion can be 1.000.000.000 or 1.000.000.000.0000 depending of the country) and that a single square meter allows 4 average men.

6x10^11/4= 1.5x10^11 m^2

1 km^2= 1x10^6 m^2

so your 600billion soldiers would occupy 150.000 km^2... that's close the size of the State of Georgia or Greece in european terms!

And that's assuming you can consistently fit four people in a square meter and ignoring trees and other land obstructions. Practically, it would probably be even larger than that.

Of course, I think you both are missing my point.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Of course, I think you both are missing my point.

Sorry, i didn't read your post, i was pumped up because of the calculation
But i second your opinion

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Even so, as supreme military commanders, the Kages are in charge of managing their respective military forces and collaborating with one another. And their input will be especially needed during preparation for the upcoming ninja war.

Gaara really has nothing better to do than bodyguard duty?

The whole war has no meaning without Naruto and Bee, they are protecting them by trying to kill Madara before Madara catches the demons. It was explained by the kages (in the spoiler) that they cannot send large forces to protect the demons because Madara would notice those forces and just follow them to the demons. Which means the alliance needed to send a few very strong ninjas, and it's just natural that a kage is the strongest. Also Gaara can fly as we have seen in his fight against Deidara. Anyway, in this manga all the kages died in the front lines, protecting their village was always more important than their personal security. Often they are made kage because they are the strongest and not because they are the smartest (that's why Naruto will be hokage and not Shikamaru).

One sad thing to notice is that the alliance has no means of reaching the island with space/time ninjutsu, that is reverse summoning which would be logical in this case. Even Sasuke could pull that off, so was transported Naruto too. Of course not randomly, but in a planned way, since they should have made a plan about such emergency cases. But i guess that's one of those illogical things we can overlook, like the alliance not visiting Konan and waiting there for Madara.

I think the 100,000 Zetsu-army is quite logical here, in fact this is the best solution to fight a war. First we have seen already Zetsu's abilities at the kage summit. And second: Madara promised that he will use the power of the 7 demons he already captured. So when we combine these two powers we get these 100,000 soldiers. It's like combining the kage bunshin jutsu with Narutor's large chakra pool: we get the mass kage bunshin which we have seen at the very beginning of the manga, the same logic applies here.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Hashirama...is Tobi or a separate person?

someone give me a quick reminder who this guy is again?

[Alchemist007]

The first hokage.