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Old 2004-05-07, 22:56   Link #41
epyon96
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
There are other ways to do that, the tattoo of Oro for his summoning no jutsu and in a general way any scroll where the signs on paper are used as the hand seals.
In these case the signs that controls chakra are made by the ink and not with the hands, but the principle remains the same : the jutsu is a spell and the Hand seals or ink the magic formula.

For the single hand seal point, the fact is that the only person that was able to do that was Haku in order to use one of his bloodline's attack, it was a thing that Kakashi didn't even knew that it was possible and even a Ninjutsu freak like Oro never made a single handed seal, it was a particular way to mix the chakra for particular jutsus coming from a bloodline.

There is just one kind of jutsu which seems to break this rule, the jutsu coming from body particularities.

In this case the body of the user his different from the others, and it allows him to do weird jutsu at will : the sneaky body of Oro, we saw one guy with 6 arms, an other with two heads, the Dojutsu like the Byakugan or the Sharingan (Hinata can also use it without hand seals, the sign she used was more a concentration thing than a hand seal), the sand of Gaara due to the presence of Shukaku, etc.
You sum up it up nicely.

But yeah, can people stop criticing the thread-starter? What you are really doing is bumping the thread that you dislike into more priority. lolz So I think the best way to express your distaste in a thread is just to ignore it rather than to post more trivial opinions about how you dislike the thread. That goes for a lot of the posters probably myself included.

For the record, I actually find this thread interesting because so many people ask this question yet so often the answer is not clear. Some simply dismiss as an animators laziness to actually show all the seals but we later learn explicitly from Jiarya that it's not the case. But Hunter already summed it up nicely.

EPYON
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Old 2004-05-07, 23:03   Link #42
p3psi
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me thinks that he just does them underneath his coat.
"When the hands are out of sight, they must be in an underwear fight"
im jk, but seriously, i that coat is 4x is normal size and he doesnt even stick his hands in his seleves unless its necessary.
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Old 2004-05-07, 23:43   Link #43
EbonySeraphim
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EDIT: Supposed to be a PM...wrong window.

If this can be deleted, it should.
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Old 2004-05-08, 00:31   Link #44
ulkar
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Heh, I guess I can type in some of my thoughts here.

People!!! Hand seals are NEVER for a mere concentration like I heard someone said it here. The only "hand seal" for concentration you can see is done only by Shikamaru. Hand seals are to create specific chakra flows. That's all about it and there is nothing more in it, period. Arguments about it are accepted from ninjutsu freaks, not Naruto anime/manga fans.

Another thing. If anime or manga doesn't display seal performance, that doesn't mean that there is no seal at all.
About Itahci, as Kakashi said, Itachi is very fast. Want to add one more thing. In anime we see people doing some seals. But, frankly, it's shown in slow motion. after a week of trainig you can do them with the same speed or maybe faster. Why am I bringing this up? Because, you have to remember for the rest of your life, when there is something happening in the battle, it happens VERY fast, and professionals do things MUCH faster than average person even with some training. So, back to Itachi, if even Kakashi couldn't see the seal, why should we?
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Old 2004-05-08, 01:19   Link #45
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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To all the people claiming that Itachi can perform Jutsu's without forming handseals because handseals are merely "chakra flow guiders" and one who is proffecient enough can do it without the seals think of this.

When the third sealed Oro and destroyed his arms Oro's career as a Ninja was more or less over. I think its like many people have said, Itachi is moving his hand at high speeds (even though he was holding shuriken in one hand).
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Old 2004-05-08, 01:46   Link #46
Rhythmic
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you know this board has way too many snobbish posters

I mean I see lots of threads here that seem pointless to me, guess what I do? I ignore them and find some other thread that gets my intrest. If they aren't needed let the mods do thier work, it seems like this forum has great mods that are always on top of things.
just ignore it and leave it to people who find the thread worth replying to, Simple and effective.
btw for what it is worth wolf. I find most of your threads intresting


back on topic. in the episode 82 discussion thread I asked that the shuruken in his hand were for and somebody replied that they thought it was just to get kakashis glaze to look away right quick.

a distraction so he could do the kage bushin while kakashi put up the water barrier.
also the Kurenai also said something like "wow his justu speed is insane I can't even see him do it"

so Ima go with what others said and think he just uses them REALLY fast.
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Old 2004-05-08, 02:21   Link #47
socomberetta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
me thinks that he just does them underneath his coat.
"When the hands are out of sight, they must be in an underwear fight"
im jk, but seriously, i that coat is 4x is normal size and he doesnt even stick his hands in his seleves unless its necessary.
Good Point.

Itachi and whoever else has long coats has the advantage over someone who doesnt. Why? Because you can perform seals to jutsu's without anyone knowing you did, and it would be hard for someone to counteract your jutsu because they wouldnt know which jutsu youre using. Thats assuming your enemy is a genius who can predict which jutsu youll be using just by looking at which seals youre using.

Plus youll never have your jutsu stolen by a sharingan user because he'll never see the seals!
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Old 2004-05-08, 03:18   Link #48
Ninjatrix
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Man, it's times like these I really want to skip ahead to the manga. Urge to read rising!
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Old 2004-05-08, 04:03   Link #49
PathofNightshade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyX
Yeah, Itachi seems to be a lone wolf. He killed his clan to test his strength (i think), so I'd say he's using Akatsuki to capture Naruto. Akatsuki want's to use Kyubi's force, but Itachi just want's to test if he can beat Kyubi
Nuhuh... Im sure he didnt do it just to test his strength. Thats ridiculous. Its hinted that somebody betrayed him in some way. Remember, Itachi isnt a twisted mofo like Oro. He's fairly well-balanced, and the manga shows us scenes before he massacred the clan when he was
Spoiler:
So he probably didnt do it with a steady head. I think he did it in anger or something.
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Old 2004-05-08, 04:27   Link #50
socomberetta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNightshade
Nuhuh... Im sure he didnt do it just to test his strength. Thats ridiculous. Its hinted that somebody betrayed him in some way. Remember, Itachi isnt a twisted mofo like Oro. He's fairly well-balanced, and the manga shows us scenes before he massacred the clan when he was
Spoiler:
So he probably didnt do it with a steady head. I think he did it in anger or something.
Where was it hinted that someone betrayed him?

Itachi never tutored Sasuke, in fact I think he made every excuse to get out of training his brother. And I doubt Itachi was ever in a well-balanced frame of mind. Even his father thought Itachi was strange, he even looked like he was a little afraid of Itachi in Chapter 145.

IMO, Itachi is twisted, of course not as much as Oro(who could ever be?).
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Old 2004-05-08, 05:55   Link #51
Chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Chosen, listen to sarcasteak, this chapter was really awfully translated
edit : If I remember well, Itachi said something like :
Spoiler:
ah :P I thought it was kinda wierd :P but that was not the only thing I said in the post
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Old 2004-05-08, 06:00   Link #52
Kabuto Maniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socomberetta
Thats assuming your enemy is a genius who can predict which jutsu youll be using just by looking at which seals youre using.
but, isn't it true you can see what kind of jutsu somebody is going to use by looking at the hand-seals? remember, Sasuke and Sakura thought Kakashi was gonna do a fire jutsu when he did the secret technique In, so..... ??????
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Old 2004-05-08, 06:06   Link #53
Palani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabuto Maniac
but, isn't it true you can see what kind of jutsu somebody is going to use by looking at the hand-seals? remember, Sasuke and Sakura thought Kakashi was gonna do a fire jutsu when he did the secret technique In, so..... ??????
Yes but they just saw one seal. And they aren't experienced. A Sharingan Master like Itachi can who propably has alot of copied jutsu can predict what type of Jutsu you will by using by looking at the seal sequence. This is because of his extensive knowledge about jutsu. At least that's what I think.
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Old 2004-05-08, 06:09   Link #54
Kabuto Maniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palani
Yes but they just saw one seal. And they aren't experienced. A Sharingan Master like Itachi can who propably has alot of copied jutsu can predict what type of Jutsu you will by using by looking at the seal sequence. This is because of his extensive knowledge about jutsu. At least that's what I think.
yes, I didn't doubt that neither, but I was talking about it in reverse sense: the guy said something about a "super genius" or something being able to predict a jutsu just by looking at the seals, but if even those two (they weren't even Genin for God's sake!) could predict the type of jutsu, well... that must mean it is not that at all right??
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Old 2004-05-08, 07:55   Link #55
Rhythmic
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anybody can predict the jutsu if they know what set of seals you are doing. It has already been done in naruto, Sakura vs sound nins.

She was doing the hand seals for the technique of replacement. he saw and knew before she even did it what was happening.
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Old 2004-05-08, 13:28   Link #56
Narutto Kyuubi
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Cool

Yes that is true,
You have to remember with most handseal jutsu if you know the hand seal order and the type of jutsu that would make (becuase you know what various handseal do to the chakra in your body) you can tell what jutsu they are going to do about. But the "genius" part comes in with these added steps.

1. They do the handseals exactly the same as you at exactly the same time (or before you if they already know how it ends)

2 They do the same jutsu as you, but Kakashi beats Them with there own jutsu. That means he the experience and quick thought to be able to use and control someone elses ninjutsu effectively enough to use it against them.

good ninjas can tell what jutsu your doing my hand seals but they cant always do the same jutsu as you at the same time and beat you with it, that is the genius/sharingan abilities

P.S also kakashi doesnt just copy and use and beat his oppenent with there own jutsu, like the fight with Zabuza, he was doing sharingan genjutsu to further confuse his opponent.
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Old 2004-05-08, 13:32   Link #57
epyon96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNightshade
Nuhuh... Im sure he didnt do it just to test his strength. Thats ridiculous. Its hinted that somebody betrayed him in some way. Remember, Itachi isnt a twisted mofo like Oro. He's fairly well-balanced, and the manga shows us scenes before he massacred the clan when he was
Spoiler:
So he probably didnt do it with a steady head. I think he did it in anger or something.
That's new.

I think it takes someone who's a bit more screwed up than Orochimaru to go about killing his entire clan. It's not just an anger management thing. Either he's schizo or he's tryign to mask something much deeper.

EPYON
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Old 2004-05-08, 13:34   Link #58
Kabuto Maniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narutto Kyuubi
Yes that is true,
You have to remember with most handseal jutsu if you know the hand seal order and the type of jutsu that would make (becuase you know what various handseal do to the chakra in your body) you can tell what jutsu they are going to do about. But the "genius" part comes in with these added steps.

1. They do the handseals exactly the same as you at exactly the same time (or before you if they already know how it ends)

2 They do the same jutsu as you, but Kakashi beats Them with there own jutsu. That means he the experience and quick thought to be able to use and control someone elses ninjutsu effectively enough to use it against them.

good ninjas can tell what jutsu your doing my hand seals but they cant always do the same jutsu as you at the same time and beat you with it, that is the genius/sharingan abilities

P.S also kakashi doesnt just copy and use and beat his oppenent with there own jutsu, like the fight with Zabuza, he was doing sharingan genjutsu to further confuse his opponent.
don't confuse genius with sharingan-user. as far as I know, all the sharingan-users geniusses, but the reverse is not like it at all! (do I even have to mention Neji Lee Gaara 4th 3rd and so on and so on?I hope I don't...). what I was talking about (and my guess is he too) was a genius that could just look at the beginning of your seal and tell exactly what it was gonna be without you even having to finish it. sharingan users don't even have to be such bad-ass geniusses to do this, because they have that bloodline limit (although it doesn't necesseraly include predicting I guess...).
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Old 2004-05-08, 16:27   Link #59
Isis&Osiris
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maybe Itachi has the ability to pre-store the spell with a time limit and has a specific trigger to cast it. the trigger would be a very very short version of the steps.
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Old 2004-05-09, 02:09   Link #60
epyon96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isis&Osiris
maybe Itachi has the ability to pre-store the spell with a time limit and has a specific trigger to cast it. the trigger would be a very very short version of the steps.
I have only watched the SO version so far so I can only draw from that.

However, Kakashi specifically mentions something on the lines of, "oh shit, his jutsu is so fast that my sharingan can't even catch it". If he had a short cut jutsu method, usually one of the anime characters will mention it saying, "how did he get that jutsu with only those few seals".

Naruto seems to be one of those few animes out there to explain every little detail as they fight. This is definitely not common because it's odd when a villain explains all his tactics while his fighting to the death.

EPYON
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