a weird poll result

[cloudedge]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Wow Yuyu FANS!

I've been collecting its Chinese language manga, and unfortunately, I only have up to no. 15. T_____T

I like Yoshihiro Togashi's works (I also love HXH). Does he have any new ones?

*looks at list*

What no Astroboy?!

If you can read chinese... then I really recommend a 3 vol. manga series by Yoshihiro Togashi called Level E. It was drawn in between Yu Yu and HxH... Despite being only 3 vol. long it has a really really really great/hilarious/little weird story... especially if you like Sci Fi and Black Humor... Really amazing work, and one of a kind.

And unfortunately, HxH is his latest work (and he's stop working since Feb. due to offically health reasons... real reason being he's lazy) HxH's manga is now at vol. 23 in Japan/Chinese.

Any of his older series prior to Yu Yu isn't that good... since he was still a developing artist then...

[Shinji103]

Tak and C.A.: I miss Amcross too. T.T

But I thought Macross 7 was awesome. Basara Nekki is still one of my favorite, if not my number 1 favorite, anime character.

[C.A.]

スカール リーダーより各機！ フォーメーション EF9 だ ！！
(Skull Leader yori kakuki! Formation EF9 da!!/ Skull Leader to all units! Formation EF9!!)

Focker is just too cool.

過激にファイヤ―！！
(Kageki ni FAIYA!!)

Basara is also my one of favourite male anime characters.

[Tak]

*Sniff* Yeah, its a rare series where 'grunts' actually mattered, or when heroes exclaim at the numbers of enemies they had to face.

Fleet ships were not mere 'gun-soakers' in Macross, they, like grunts, actually provide practical support for the main characters. Macross gave me a feeling of desperation, of mankind's hope for survival, of something at stake.

You really don't see that in Gundam. Not SEED, not Destiny, where a Freedom/Destiny/Justice Gundam is pretty much equavalent to a Zentraedi Fleet of 5,000 warships.

Squads, as we have previously discussed, work in teams. Duels were rare. In fact, that whole Myrian vs. Max thing was the only duel in the entire franchise!

Even the main character, Hikaru, gets that much glory. He was no new-type/SEED ace, and had to constantly work with his collegues in order to achieve the basic neccessity for survival. What a classic.

- Tak

[Kaioshin Sama]

1) Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
2) Turn A Gundam
3) Mobile Suit Victory Gundam
4) Space Runaway Ideon
5) Legend Of The Galactic Heroes
6) SDF Macross
7) Tenkuu No Escaflowne
8) Eureka 7
9) Metal Armor Dragonar
10) Giant Robo
11) Yu Yu Hakusho
12) Heavy Metal L-Gaim
13) Aura Battler Dunbine
14) Mobile Fighter God Gundam
15) Martian Successor Nadesico
16) Black Jack
17) Mobile Suit Gundam
18) Char's Counterattack
19) Full Metal Alchemist
20) After War Gundam X
21) King Of Braves Gaogaigar
22) Keroro Gunsou
23) Bleach
24) Gunbuster
25) Rahxephon
26) Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
27) Mobile Suit Gundam F91
28) Super Bestial Machine God Dancougar
29) Tekkaman Blade
30) Mazinkaiser
31) Shin Getter Robo Armageddon
32) Overman King Gainer
33) Brain Powerd
34) Macross Plus
35) Macross 7
36) The Big O
37) Last Exile
38) Megazone 23
39) Super Robot Wars The Animation
40) Kimagure Orange Road
41) Elfen Lied
42) Yuusha Raideen
43) Slayers
44) Gear Fighter Dendoh
45) El Hazard
46) Mushishi
47) Sentou Mecha Xabungle
48) Ranma 1/2
49) Mobile Suit Gundam 08th MS Team
50) New Mobile Report Gundam Wing
51) Round Vernian Vifam
52) Doraemon
53) Captain Tsubasa
54) My Neighbor Totoro
55) Nadia: Secret of Blue Water
56) Space Cruiser Yamato
57) Ashita No Joe
58) The Prince Of Tennis
59) Galaxy Express 999
60) Blue Comet SPT Layzner
61) Grave Of The Fireflies
62) Yu-Gi-OH
63) Shaman King
64) Sailor Moon
65) Inuyasha
66) Ping Pong Club
67) Kodoma No Omacha
68) Here is Greenwood
69) Golden Boy
70) Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory
71) Shinemsman
72) Outlaw Star
73) Trigun
74) Grenadier The Smiling Soldier
75) Hikaru No Go
76) Full Metal Panic
77) Godmars
78) Daitarn 3
79) Gundam Seed
80) Voltes V
81) Shinkon Gatai Godannar
82) Combattler V
83) Brave Express Might Gaine
84) Slam Dunk
85) Fighting General Daimos
86) Hades Project Zeorymer
87) One Piece
88) Super Dimensional Century Orguss
89) Ninja Senshi Tobikage
91) J9 Tai Series
92) Digimon
93) Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya
94) Great Mazinger
95) Devilman
96) Fist of The North Star
97) Grendizer
98) Super Dimensional Cavalry Southern Cross
99) Invincible Trider G7
100) Sailor Moon

Fixed it as best I could.

[Shinji103]

LOL!!!!

That's beautiful, Kai.

Except I think MSG should be higher up.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Tak

*Sniff* Yeah, its a rare series where 'grunts' actually mattered, or when heroes exclaim at the numbers of enemies they had to face.

What also surprising, is that in SDF Macross, even ace pilots generally fly around in the same kind of mecha everyone else uses.

Originally Posted by Tak

Fleet ships were not mere 'gun-soakers' in Macross, they, like grunts, actually provide practical support for the main characters. Macross gave me a feeling of desperation, of mankind's hope for survival, of something at stake.

Arguably, Macrossverse capital ships can take a lot of punishment compared to fighters. A Valkyrie can whale away at a Zentradi battleship all day with conventional weapons, and still do only superficial damage.

Originally Posted by Tak

Squads, as we have previously discussed, work in teams. Duels were rare. In fact, that whole Myrian vs. Max thing was the only duel in the entire franchise!

Another thing that I really loved. It seemed as if the Macross creators actually knew quite a bit about how militaries work, and the way battles are supposed to look.

Originally Posted by Tak

Even the main character, Hikaru, gets that much glory. He was no new-type/SEED ace, and had to constantly work with his collegues in order to achieve the basic neccessity for survival. What a classic.

What's also interesting is that Hikaru is nowhere near being the best pilot – there's at least 3-4 characters that he would lose to. The more mecha anime I watch, the more impressive this factoid becomes.


After a point, it's sort of meaningless to spout off on Macross' superlatives. It sometimes almost feels as if it was designed by people who were trying to address some of the specific problems found in Gundam (this would be just MSG and the MSG movies at the time).

[Obi-Wan]

I think Zeta and Victory are actually below Seed and Destiny so that redo is pretty much bollocks to me. The only rewrite I would do is delete Haruhi from the list and maybe replace it with like, Coyote Ragtime Show or Speed Grapher.

You also have YYH on there twice and strangely Dragonball Z was deleted? Super fail.

[C.A.]

One thing is that Kaioshin would have Haruhi much higher in his list if the anime showed some of his favourite chapters from the novels.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Arguably, Macrossverse capital ships can take a lot of punishment compared to fighters. A Valkyrie can whale away at a Zentradi battleship all day with conventional weapons, and still do only superficial damage.

I actually wrote my previous post as a compairson between Macross and Zentraedi ships. Yeah, Zentraedi ships take a lot of punshiment, and a lone Valkyrie would have to infiltrate one before knocking it out from the inside (assuming that it had survived the crews). In contrast... Gundam ship armors were like paper.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Another thing that I really loved. It seemed as if the Macross creators actually knew quite a bit about how militaries work, and the way battles are supposed to look.

Not too surprisingly, a lot of Macross series acquired the technical aid of the JASDF (Japanese Air Self-Defense Force).

Originally Posted by 4Tran

After a point, it's sort of meaningless to spout off on Macross' superlatives. It sometimes almost feels as if it was designed by people who were trying to address some of the specific problems found in Gundam (this would be just MSG and the MSG movies at the time).

I somehow think that was the point too, to adress the problems that were Gundam. Grunts in Gundam were just there to get soaked with bullets while New Types stole the show. Not that I have a problem with it, but Macross shifted to another direction, a more realistic one and actually did it very well, with aces piloting mechas not too different from Grunts. It showed true skills, not solely the abilities of the machines.

- Tak (We need another Macross, but we can only get one every few years )

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

I think Zeta and Victory are actually below Seed and Destiny so that redo is pretty much bollocks to me. The only rewrite I would do is delete Haruhi from the list and maybe replace it with like, Coyote Ragtime Show or Speed Grapher.

You also have YYH on there twice and strangely Dragonball Z was deleted? Super fail.

Yeah we know already of your strange love of Seed Destiny the ultimate clip show and time waster.

[Eclipze]

Um...as much as I can tell why this poll result was posted here on the Gundam forums, isnt it much more suitable in the General Anime sub-forum?

And about the whole "mainstream vs non-mainstream" debate:

Spoiler:

People have to realize that it basically boils down to personal preference as well as how the animators use these preferences to produce animes that we hated and loved. Just because a non-mainstream fan announces that the poll is the most inaccurate thing ever because he/she doesn’t know or appreciate the appeal of mainstream anime, it doesn’t necessarily mean that a mainstream fan is right, since chances are that he/she probably dont understand the appeal of non-mainstream anime too.

Animators always cater to their target audience, evident by the fact that there’s such a thing as "mainstream appeal", which would also indicate the existence of "non-mainstream appeal" too. In stereotyping, I'd say that the average mainstream fan would hate/dislike non-mainstream shows, vice versa. That’s not to say that it is an absolute, since there are plenty of hybrid fans around.

In any case, whatever that is said here or elsewhere is merely opinions of people; So what if dozens of posters here agree that GS/D don’t deserve to be #1? There are people who support the poll result too, and all of these are made up of opinions, so there really isnt an absolute to use as 'The Comparison'.

People disagreeing with each other (or whatever you call this type of debate) is a fairly normal human behavior that not only exists in this forum, but everyday life as well. We have people who prefer the Harry Potter books to the movies (comparable to people preferring manga to anime), we have people who feel that xx (name any unheard of singer) pwns xx(name any super popular singer/bands) in every single aspect possible (comparable to non-mainstream anime fans vs mainstream). It’s not like this problem is exclusive to Animesuki forums, since just about every online forum has similar problems (there are some exceptions).

At the of the day, people should remember that it (What ever is said here and the poll itself) is just opinions: An no, I wont say to anyone "Geez, don’t get so worked-up just over some opinions.", since as I mention, it is a normal reaction. Hell, I still react like that sometimes when I disagree with something, even though I tend to have a very "look at the big picture" type of mindset. It is something that people do subconsciously, and is not something that should be used as a gauge for judging another person's maturity (which is also a common occurrence in online forums, unfortunately).

So yea, that’s it.

[Obi-Wan]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Um...as much as I can tell why this poll result was posted here on the Gundam forums, isnt it much more suitable in the General Anime sub-forum?

That's not a bad idea. We should move the thread or just relist it there.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Tak

In contrast... Gundam ship armors were like paper.

This is true to the point where I wonder why they aren’t more like Wing ships, where all the larger vessels are little more than unarmed transports.

Originally Posted by Tak

Not too surprisingly, a lot of Macross series acquired the technical aid of the JASDF (Japanese Air Self-Defense Force).

This explains a lot. I especially liked the amount of focus they put on details like dedicated recon vehicles, ECM, military bureaucracy, etc., etc. By comparison, Gundam shows generally seem to be made by people who have just the slightest inkling what militaries were supposed to look like.

Originally Posted by Tak

- Tak (We need another Macross, but we can only get one every few years)

Too true. Unfortunately, it looks like Kawamori went off the deep end over a decade ago, and while his shows are still entertaining, they lack the oomph that was present in his earlier works.

UPDATE: I just watched the first few episodes of SDF Macross for the first time. Wow, that was great! Fast paced, and filled chock-full of fun moments. Why can't more Gundam shows, and mecha shows in general, be more like that?

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Yeah we know already of your strange love of Seed Destiny the ultimate clip show and time waster.

Liking Seed Destiny is neither strange, nor even all that unusual – as the OP for this thread demonstrates.

Originally Posted by Eclipze

And about the whole "mainstream vs non-mainstream" debate:

Kudos. That was well written.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Wow Tak, you and I share some things in common. I'm also a Super Robot Wars fan. But mostly I'm a Psybuster-Valcione R-Nolus Rei fan. LOL.

Has anybody watched HXH beyond the Spider Gang arc? I only know of the OVA...my favorite Spider Gang "member" would be Hisoka.

@ cloudedge

I don't really read Chinese, it's just the fan in me collecting YYH stuff...^^;; I even have the Ranma 1/2 Memorial Book in Chinese, but that's just because I want to collect it. It's probably because anime isn't exactly mainstream here as it was back then, and most people who buy the anime related stuff are Chinese; plus, the Japanese stuff costs more than Chinese manga ones, too. I could read and understand a little Japanese though. I own a Sailormoon Japanese manga one (book 10), and a Ranma 1/2 Japanese one (number 35), even an old copy of Shounen Jump in Japanese and Nakayoshi in Japanese. :P

@ CA

I didn't get to watch the entire Macross series, and only learned about Macross 7 from the Super Robot Wars that was on the GBA (was it? ^^;; ). I watched the Macross movie though. I believe it was called "Do You Believe In Love?".

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

@ CA

I didn't get to watch the entire Macross series, and only learned about Macross 7 from the Super Robot Wars that was on the GBA (was it? ^^;; ). I watched the Macross movie though. I believe it was called "Do You Believe In Love?".

Yah, but actually is "Do You Remember Love?". And chapter 49 of SRW Alpha 3 made me cried twice in that single stage when "Do You Remember Love was played, then "Try Again" came later. Those songs plus their dialogues just killed me lol

[Eidolon Sniper]

Oops, interchanged that song with a love song, LOL. all dialogues in SRWs are funny in one way or the other. Plus, the chibi mech animations are just too damn cute, it must be made into a crime or something.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Oops, interchanged that song with a love song, LOL. all dialogues in SRWs are funny in one way or the other. Plus, the chibi mech animations are just too damn cute, it must be made into a crime or something.

What irks me is the fact that I can only see Macross on SRW and associated media now. I want to see another sequel! The Prequel wasn't bad (Macross Zero) and had me nearly lept out of my seat in joy when I saw Fokkar transformed his Valkyrie for the first time! What a rush!

Man, now I can only remind myself of the glory that was once Macross on SRW. Kind of sad, if you ask me.

Look, if Kawamori can design that lil' Aibo robo-puppy, he can very damn well design another Valkyrie fighter for another Macross franchise.

- Tak