AnimeSuki Forums

uzumaki · 2006-06-14, 02:27

Anyone notice the similarities? Specially in the scene where Johann is holding Wolfe's head in his hands with his eyes wide open....
Someone on a review suggested that Johann comes after Griffith, and I would have to completely disagree. Griffith's depth is no where near Johann's. Griffith's personality is backed up by rather cliche motives (common type masculine ambition, though a lot of it), while Johann's motive is connected deeply to the human condition of love, revival and destruction. Griffith is a very good character, though something happens to him at a very significant point in the story where he turns into something that eliminates the mystery about him, makes him a simple, ambitious criminal, and...well, it could be compared to giving Johann psychic or super powers: he's not physically human anymore, so you can expect anything from him and thus he's not as horrifying or enigmatic. Not only that, Griffith's character has a different side to it that's unexpected, yet that dilutes his character slightly. Johann's coldness is like a sharp blade. He is never seen, except for that single childhood scene with the acorns, expressing care for another person.
And of course, you can see the creator's skill. Johann and his life are carefully made out, while Griffith life and character tend to be sloppily exposed and often at wrong times and slow paces (it's been 31 volumes of Berserk and I still don't understand what his motives truly are...besides the whole 'fate/destiny thing').

So here you have my highly biased comparison. I can also compare another popular psycho with Johann: Hannibal Lecter: Hannibal Lecter is pretty scary, though because he is so human-- he engages in things in things that have to connect with human physicality (lust, hand-on torture. In one scene he is even shown sitting on a toilet seat in prison), he is not as...transcendent as Johann. He is not really a monster, more of a highly intelligent beast (beast is closer to animal tendencies) with rather animal-like motives (lust, murder, bloodthirst). Johann, on the other hand engages in nothing that is normally called common animal behaviour (physical intimation, carnality) or compulsions. He is truly the biblical--the divine--monster (BTW, 666 is the number of the monster Johann is based upon....I kept thinking of this show during that whole day!), he is never covered in blood, he is always clean, with a calm expression and clear eyes. He is actually not at all the typical serial killer: he has no lust, he only has platonic love (supposedly he does have love) for his sister, he kills everyone cleanly and for the sole purpose of ceasure of life, and he has none of the mental deficiencies ususally connected with serial killers.
What is also very interesting is that he is, in a sense, recovered/forgiven, which none of the above seem capable of doing [well Berserk is still continuing, psh]. The way he goes in the end (we never see it...he simply dissapears), his transformation through out the story between male and female, his identity fluctuating between imaginary and real--it's as if Johann can be anything, anywhere. (And what's quite surprising is that he is so...different that he has no fan girl followings...which is a common trend with handsome psychos. I suppose he is just too chilling/scary for that sort of thing)

Geffrod · 2006-06-18, 18:18

I don't think anyone is interested in Berserker here. Maybe if you had a link to the manga in a torrent then more people might be able to respond.

uzumaki · 2006-06-20, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geffrod

I don't think anyone is interested in Berserker here. Maybe if you had a link to the manga in a torrent then more people might be able to respond.

Well, sorry but Berserk is licensed. But I suppose if you really wanted to read it you...could find it in 'the usual places'

But I don't think you'd need to know about Berserk to get my post, it is pretty much all about Johann.

Cooldude · 2006-07-19, 06:35

No comparsion

Griffth was very basic, he has a dream, has ambitions, and would do anything to achieve that, anything

Johan's intentions ain't just an ordinary dream. It's not just the fact that he is a master brainwasher, he has no desires, no dreams, no ambitions. He is the most fascinating of characters.

Varis · 2006-07-19, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooldude

No comparsion

Griffth was very basic, he has a dream, has ambitions, and would do anything to achieve that, anything

Johan's intentions ain't just an ordinary dream. It's not just the fact that he is a master brainwasher, he has no desires, no dreams, no ambitions. He is the most fascinating of characters.

... right... Griffith is your everyday joe with delusions of grandure. Totally owned by someone that has no dreams, no ambitions and no desires. Might as well replace Johann with a box of evil corn flakes...

Yes, Griffith wants to be King and he worked himself from a peasant to a noble with his determination and genius. It was guts though that distorted that vision. On one side he was merely a pawn, a tool and yet he was drawn to him. He said in order for him to call someone his friend he would have to be equal in all aspects. Yet he admired that "nobody". Guts heard that and knew he would never be able to be Griffiths equal as long as he was with the hawks. So he left.
That crushed Griffith, especially when he was beaten in his attempt to stop him.
Griffith completely lost it and went to sleep with the kings daughter to distract him. That of course got him a 1 way ticket to prison and daily torture.
When he was rescued by Guts, he saw how happy he was with Casca and it ate at him even more. Especially because he was crippled by the torture. He then loved and hated Guts.
It was not until then he would do ANYTHING to achieve power. But it was still not about that. He was still consumed by his thought of Guts and so made him watch as he raped Casca and deformed their child.

Sorry but Griffith is anything but your basic joe that wants world domination.

Cooldude · 2006-07-19, 07:55

I never said Griffth was a basic character, I said his main intentions were very basic: He wanted his own country, and would sacrifice anything for it.

Johan on the other hand, is abstract, harder to grasp, yet extremely intriguing. As Lunge put it: "A Buddha on a path of destruction".

A man with no name who had no one but her sister to turn to, whom also eventually turned against him until the very end. A man who marvelled at the ugliness of humans and his ability to manipulate those negative emotions and bring out their natural instinct of hatred. A man who wants no past nor future, a man who wants to watch the world devour on its own until he was the last one standing.

He's infinitely more complex than Griffth, whose only motive was ever

Spoilers

Having sex with an old man, sacrificing his comrades (Whom were willing to die for him) in order for him to "pile up the bodies and reach that castle that he's dreamed of". There was one thing that Griffth ever wanted, he's a self-centred man with a high dream, that is why he considered no one a friend unless he's his equal, and that is Guts.

Spooky-Electric · 2006-07-20, 00:39

Why do people always have to put down one thing to build up another?

You want to praise Johan, that's cool, he's a great character, but it's not necessary to call Griffith "basic" in order to build up an argument for how great Johan is because that's simply not true.

ChainLegacy · 2006-07-20, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooky-Electric

Why do people always have to put down one thing to build up another?

You want to praise Johan, that's cool, he's a great character, but it's not necessary to call Griffith "basic" in order to build up an argument for how great Johan is because that's simply not true.

Great post. Johan and Griffith are very similar and are both great characters in their own right. I would say they are about equal in my liking for them.

Cooldude · 2006-07-20, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooky-Electric

Why do people always have to put down one thing to build up another?

You want to praise Johan, that's cool, he's a great character, but it's not necessary to call Griffith "basic" in order to build up an argument for how great Johan is because that's simply not true.

I wasn't putting down Griffith

He is basic, a bloke with a dream and who'd do anything to achieve it, there are many like that around anime/manga/novels or in real life. I don't think I'm bringing him down in anyway when I said that, was just stating a fact

2006-06-14, 02:27	Link #1
uzumaki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Johann vs. Griffth from Berserk (spoilers) Anyone notice the similarities? Specially in the scene where Johann is holding Wolfe's head in his hands with his eyes wide open.... Someone on a review suggested that Johann comes after Griffith, and I would have to completely disagree. Griffith's depth is no where near Johann's. Griffith's personality is backed up by rather cliche motives (common type masculine ambition, though a lot of it), while Johann's motive is connected deeply to the human condition of love, revival and destruction. Griffith is a very good character, though something happens to him at a very significant point in the story where he turns into something that eliminates the mystery about him, makes him a simple, ambitious criminal, and...well, it could be compared to giving Johann psychic or super powers: he's not physically human anymore, so you can expect anything from him and thus he's not as horrifying or enigmatic. Not only that, Griffith's character has a different side to it that's unexpected, yet that dilutes his character slightly. Johann's coldness is like a sharp blade. He is never seen, except for that single childhood scene with the acorns, expressing care for another person. And of course, you can see the creator's skill. Johann and his life are carefully made out, while Griffith life and character tend to be sloppily exposed and often at wrong times and slow paces (it's been 31 volumes of Berserk and I still don't understand what his motives truly are...besides the whole 'fate/destiny thing'). So here you have my highly biased comparison. I can also compare another popular psycho with Johann: Hannibal Lecter: Hannibal Lecter is pretty scary, though because he is so human-- he engages in things in things that have to connect with human physicality (lust, hand-on torture. In one scene he is even shown sitting on a toilet seat in prison), he is not as...transcendent as Johann. He is not really a monster, more of a highly intelligent beast (beast is closer to animal tendencies) with rather animal-like motives (lust, murder, bloodthirst). Johann, on the other hand engages in nothing that is normally called common animal behaviour (physical intimation, carnality) or compulsions. He is truly the biblical--the divine--monster (BTW, 666 is the number of the monster Johann is based upon....I kept thinking of this show during that whole day!), he is never covered in blood, he is always clean, with a calm expression and clear eyes. He is actually not at all the typical serial killer: he has no lust, he only has platonic love (supposedly he does have love) for his sister, he kills everyone cleanly and for the sole purpose of ceasure of life, and he has none of the mental deficiencies ususally connected with serial killers. What is also very interesting is that he is, in a sense, recovered/forgiven, which none of the above seem capable of doing [well Berserk is still continuing, psh]. The way he goes in the end (we never see it...he simply dissapears), his transformation through out the story between male and female, his identity fluctuating between imaginary and real--it's as if Johann can be anything, anywhere. (And what's quite surprising is that he is so...different that he has no fan girl followings...which is a common trend with handsome psychos. I suppose he is just too chilling/scary for that sort of thing)

2006-07-19, 07:55	Link #6
Cooldude Member Join Date: Apr 2006	I never said Griffth was a basic character, I said his main intentions were very basic: He wanted his own country, and would sacrifice anything for it. Johan on the other hand, is abstract, harder to grasp, yet extremely intriguing. As Lunge put it: "A Buddha on a path of destruction". A man with no name who had no one but her sister to turn to, whom also eventually turned against him until the very end. A man who marvelled at the ugliness of humans and his ability to manipulate those negative emotions and bring out their natural instinct of hatred. A man who wants no past nor future, a man who wants to watch the world devour on its own until he was the last one standing. He's infinitely more complex than Griffth, whose only motive was ever Spoilers Having sex with an old man, sacrificing his comrades (Whom were willing to die for him) in order for him to "pile up the bodies and reach that castle that he's dreamed of". There was one thing that Griffth ever wanted, he's a self-centred man with a high dream, that is why he considered no one a friend unless he's his equal, and that is Guts. Last edited by Cooldude; 2006-07-19 at 08:06.

2006-06-18, 18:18	Link #2
Geffrod Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	I don't think anyone is interested in Berserker here. Maybe if you had a link to the manga in a torrent then more people might be able to respond.

2006-07-19, 06:35	Link #4
Cooldude Member Join Date: Apr 2006	No comparsion Griffth was very basic, he has a dream, has ambitions, and would do anything to achieve that, anything Johan's intentions ain't just an ordinary dream. It's not just the fact that he is a master brainwasher, he has no desires, no dreams, no ambitions. He is the most fascinating of characters.

2006-07-20, 00:39	Link #7
Spooky-Electric Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	Why do people always have to put down one thing to build up another? You want to praise Johan, that's cool, he's a great character, but it's not necessary to call Griffith "basic" in order to build up an argument for how great Johan is because that's simply not true.