AnimeSuki Forums

DragoZERO · 2011-01-20, 20:57

Well, decided to do a little work. Comments? Improvements?

Raw:

Old:

New:

Ryus · 2011-01-20, 21:41

@DragoZERO

I like the changes you made from the old to the new... but I think you can take it a step further. First off the "record of the yoma wars" could stand to be a little larger even at the cost of having to be moved slightly from its original position. I would also like to see it with a similar highlight like the RAW has, to help off set a possible change to the location of the larger text and too keep it more like the original. Right now the text is only half the size of what it was and I feel that detracts from the title since the chapter title should be about as large number of the chapter. Even if you don't change the size, a highlight glow around the text might fool the eye into not noticing the vastly larger number than title.

As to the lower text I feel it looks too modern, like a business report but in all caps. I'd personally like to see slight script like font being applied to it just to see if it gives it that more medieval time period feeling (but lightly so no one has to struggle to read it

). That said I love the sizing and margins of it, very close to the raw... it's very readable and not an eye strain to read.

In the end readability trumps style and I can only imagine how hard it would be to find a script that isn't overly fancy and readable. The script I'm imagining is way more "male" and "plain" than "fancy" and/or "feminine"... think what a business would aim for before the invention of a printing press, clear & yet business like but clearly hand written. Serif fonts just come off as too modern to me... don't get me wrong it's clearly the right idea, but for the wrong time period.

The top part I feel the same way about as the lower, right size and true to the original but the font could be toned to match the time period/level of tech in the island in Claymore.

If you find a good script font style you like try applying it to the other 2 sections also.

...hope my thoughts help you find your way something you can be proud of

(even if you don't do what I suggest but it helps spark some genius scanalations skills you clearly have

)

DragoZERO · 2011-01-20, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryus

I like the changes you made from the old to the new... but I think you can take it a step further. First off the "record of the yoma wars" could stand to be a little larger even at the cost of having to be moved slightly from its original position. I would also like to see it with a similar highlight like the RAW has, to help off set a possible change to the location of the larger text and too keep it more like the original. Right now the text is only half the size of what it was and I feel that detracts from the title since the chapter title should be about as large number of the chapter. Even if you don't change the size, a highlight glow around the text might fool the eye into not noticing the vastly larger number than title.

If anything, that text is too big. You want to match the source. I do plan on increasing the highlight glow. It's a little tricky sometimes so I didn't do it then. Besides... did they put highlight glows in the middle ages?

Quote:

As to the lower text I feel it looks too modern, like a business report but in all caps. I'd personally like to see slight script like font being applied to it just to see if it gives it that more medieval time period feeling (but lightly so no one has to struggle to read it

). That said I love the sizing and margins of it, very close to the raw... it's very readable and not an eye strain to read.

In the end readability trumps style and I can only imagine how hard it would be to find a script that isn't overly fancy and readable. The script I'm imagining is way more "male" and "plain" than "fancy" and/or "feminine"... think what a business would aim for before the invention of a printing press, clear & yet business like but clearly hand written. Serif fonts just come off as too modern to me... don't get me wrong it's clearly the right idea, but for the wrong time period.

The top part I feel the same way about as the lower, right size and true to the original but the font could be toned to match the time period/level of tech in the island in Claymore.

If you find a good script font style you like try applying it to the other 2 sections also.

I know what you mean. Handwritten style font can be tricky to read though. I felt this had an old fashioned feel, and still maintained good readability. It also has a nice size factor. I will try other fonts though. And this is a serif font, look closely.

Quote:

...hope my thoughts help you find your way something you can be proud of

(even if you don't do what I suggest but it helps spark some genius scanalations skills you clearly have

)

Far from genius, but thank you for the complement none the less.

Ryus · 2011-01-20, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

If anything, that text is too big. You want to match the source. I do plan on increasing the highlight glow. It's a little tricky sometimes so I didn't do it then. Besides... did they put highlight glows in the middle ages?

Oh, I agree it's too big over all space wise... but in comparison to the #1 it's too small letter vs letter.

That's why I also mentioned that maybe a highlight around the text could make it appear larger without actually being larger.

The answer to the highlight in the middle ages is an obvious no

, but we're aiming for general feel to a modern audience. As such it doesn't have to be perfect, what you need is just have enough elements that set the tone as medieval, yet won't annoy modern fans looking for something that just looks good and easy to read. I'm thinking a highlight wouldn't take away from the tone (and also would beneficially look more like the RAW) yet also possible solve the size issue without having to edit the size of the 1... since it will (IMHO) just look odd being that big all by itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I know what you mean. Handwritten style font can be tricky to read though. I felt this had an old fashioned feel, and still maintained good readability. It also has a nice size factor. I will try other fonts though. And this is a serif font, look closely.

I know it was a serif font... that's what I meant, sorry for any confusion

. Operating on about an hours sleep so I might be not fully explaining myself.

Since it was a serif font it came off as too modern to me, but the purpose for using serif fonts most of the time is the right idea. Just I feel serif fonts all look too modern. What you need IMHO is a script font that's very readable but serves the same function as a serif font, business like and clearly readable. Maybe a serif/script hybrid would be the best analogy to what I'm envisioning

Who know... maybe it could be as simple as replaceing the semi-structural details on the ends of some of the strokes with minor script elements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Far from genius, but thank you for the complement none the less.

Hey for a draft without the perfect font yet that's looking quite good.

DragoZERO · 2011-01-21, 21:12

Let me know which font you guys think is best.

v1

v2

And is "Chief" accurate to the official translation?

evil_kenshin · 2011-01-21, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Let me know which font you guys think is best.

v1

v2

And is "Chief" accurate to the official translation?

I prefer V1 so hopefully you'll keep that font but no idea about the translation

FormerAbyssalone · 2011-01-21, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

I prefer V1 so hopefully you'll keep that font but no idea about the translation

Yep same here I like V1 for the font.

Ryus · 2011-01-22, 01:18

Hmm... well version 2 seems to be a collection of ideas. So over all version 1 looks nicer since version 2 isn't really a version at all but a test bed for font styles. If it's a full blown version, it's clearly doomed to be worse since there's nothing consistent about it.

In "version 2" the highlight is only ok, I think you should aim for a highlight closer to the raw where it is much brighter but fades rather than a constant brightness. It doesn't look bad but does nothing for me, though I do like the font size increase.

Of the fonts on version 2, clearly the first one in the lower section is closest to what I was talking about to you earlier. However it appears to be a very tall and narrow font (especially the lower case letters) with pretty fancy capital letters, which I feel is kinda wrong for the org to be doing. If it's possible to find a script font without overly fancy capital letters maybe you could try to mimic first font you used in version 1 (font 5), where the capital letters where just larger, I realize this might have to be done manually but it might look very nice. You know I just realized maybe a font like the "Year" at the bottom of the page might look nice besides a script font... what do they call that font type "Old English" or something to that effect. It seems to have the feel I was thinking of as well and seems decently legible. Maybe there might even be a similar font to it, that's even more legible.

Font 2 is ok, but I prefer font 5 over it. Fonts 3 and 4 are further away from what I was thinking, so once again I prefer font 5 over it.

If possible could you post something like this, just a big test of several fonts you like. Who knows, maybe you could even do one for each font style (one for script font, serif fonts, sans-serif, one for old English fonts (I have none so I couldn't test it myself

), etc).

That way people can pick what font style they like, what highlight type they like (I only had very tiny ones... sorry I couldn't post a big one like I was suggesting) and they could help you choose the best looking font of the ones you felt where decent. Now I have only a very basic collection of fonts and of those I have I hated all the scrip fonts... though oddly I still fell maybe there what your looking for and there is a good one out there which would better match the Org, yet still be clear have the feel of your first font.

Then post a version of each winner and let the 4 or 5 versions complete, not in a vote but of people saying why they like one or the other and you choose which one feels right to you after the opinions have been given.

Hope my opinion, which seems to be the descanting opinion

, helps you. I tried to go beyond choose A or B since only one was really a version and the other a collection of ideas. (was I the only one to notice that? or where others just thrown off by the question?

I thought you clearly asked us to pick fonts not one version over another... )

Gooral · 2011-01-22, 01:46

I think simple is good and version 1 serves it's purpose perfectly. There's no reason to waste time on choosing fonts. In version 2 while the first font looks quite good and it gives a feel of hand-writing it makes reading harder. So I would stick with the first choice and didn't experiment further but concentrate efforts somewhere else. /IMO

DragoZERO · 2011-01-22, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooral

I think simple is good and version 1 serves it's purpose perfectly. There's no reason to waste time on choosing fonts. In version 2 while the first font looks quite good and it gives a feel of hand-writing it makes reading harder. So I would stick with the first choice and didn't experiment further but concentrate efforts somewhere else. /IMO

Yes, I agree. It's not a standard, common font, and I like that it's all caps, sorta. Plus it's space friendly.

I usually go with my first choice anyway.

DragoZERO · 2011-01-22, 16:08

Page 11

Raw

Draft - Top

And I won't be doing this for every single page, just in the beginning.

DragoZERO · 2011-02-11, 13:56

I finished what had been both cleaned adequately and translated. Pages 1-3, and 11.

Ryus · 2011-02-11, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I finished what had been both cleaned adequately and translated. Pages 1-3, and 11.

Still reading... spotted something... (btw: Thanks

)

On page 2 the Eastern area is called "Sutoph" but I've seen it also as "Sutare" and it's called "Sutafu" in Anime and VIZ translation. With both the Anime and VIZ calling it "Sutafu" it might make it the defacto name regardless of how correct they are.

Not sure which you'll pick in the end, and not sure it matters, but I wanted bring it to your attention.

Taylor_Maclaurin · 2011-02-11, 14:27

Firstly, thank you for this DragoZERO. Secondly, I nearly fell off my chair when I've read Raki's profile

. "Specialty - cooking". In Dragon Ball units it must be at least 2300.
Also, these databooks must be a manual for rookie MiB since all of this information should be known to them (especially about youma).

DragoZERO · 2011-02-11, 15:36

First: moving.... http://claymoredata.wordpress.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryus

Still reading... spotted something... (btw: Thanks

)

On page 2 the Eastern area is called "Sutoph" but I've seen it also as "Sutare" and it's called "Sutafu" in Anime and VIZ translation. With both the Anime and VIZ calling it "Sutafu" it might make it the defacto name regardless of how correct they are.

Not sure which you'll pick in the end, and not sure it matters, but I wanted bring it to your attention.

That's why I was looking for some QA people. Do you remember a particular part in the series where they mention this? I'll double check.

I'll take your word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor_Maclaurin

Firstly, thank you for this DragoZERO. Secondly, I nearly fell off my chair when I've read Raki's profile

. "Specialty - cooking". In Dragon Ball units it must be at least 2300.
Also, these databooks must be a manual for rookie MiB since all of this information should be known to them (especially about youma).

It's not a formal manual, it's just themed as such.

Ryus · 2011-02-12, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

First: moving.... http://claymoredata.wordpress.com

That's why I was looking for some QA people. Do you remember a particular part in the series where they mention this? I'll double check.

I'll take your word.

Sure... here you go.

Sorry should have given this too you when I posted, I double checked and everything but didn't bother to think about linking you the info... silly me.

Spoiler for Anime screenshot... English Sub:

Spoiler for Claymore Manga Ch 5 VIZ version Page 23 as listed on the site:

I'll be glad to read over anything looking to make sure everything is cannon if that's what you mean by QA. If I remember correctly Falcor also offered and I'm sure some others are willing to double check it too. Just post what you need us to do and how to participate beyond this thread. The web site above seems to be more for just posting updates than a closed discussion board meant for checking the translation before you do any scanaltion work... Then again I'm not familiar with wordpress.com and it could be just for that

DragoZERO · 2011-02-12, 09:47

Great, thanks. You should take down that manga page though. All I need was the chapter and page, I have the volumes on my shelf.

2011-01-20, 20:57	Link #41
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	Well, decided to do a little work. Comments? Improvements? Raw: Old: New: __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2011-01-20, 21:41	Link #42
Ryus The One Eyed King Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lurking Up Ahead	@DragoZERO I like the changes you made from the old to the new... but I think you can take it a step further. First off the "record of the yoma wars" could stand to be a little larger even at the cost of having to be moved slightly from its original position. I would also like to see it with a similar highlight like the RAW has, to help off set a possible change to the location of the larger text and too keep it more like the original. Right now the text is only half the size of what it was and I feel that detracts from the title since the chapter title should be about as large number of the chapter. Even if you don't change the size, a highlight glow around the text might fool the eye into not noticing the vastly larger number than title. As to the lower text I feel it looks too modern, like a business report but in all caps. I'd personally like to see slight script like font being applied to it just to see if it gives it that more medieval time period feeling (but lightly so no one has to struggle to read it ). That said I love the sizing and margins of it, very close to the raw... it's very readable and not an eye strain to read. In the end readability trumps style and I can only imagine how hard it would be to find a script that isn't overly fancy and readable. The script I'm imagining is way more "male" and "plain" than "fancy" and/or "feminine"... think what a business would aim for before the invention of a printing press, clear & yet business like but clearly hand written. Serif fonts just come off as too modern to me... don't get me wrong it's clearly the right idea, but for the wrong time period. The top part I feel the same way about as the lower, right size and true to the original but the font could be toned to match the time period/level of tech in the island in Claymore. If you find a good script font style you like try applying it to the other 2 sections also. ...hope my thoughts help you find your way something you can be proud of (even if you don't do what I suggest but it helps spark some genius scanalations skills you clearly have ) __________________

2011-01-21, 21:12	Link #45
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	Let me know which font you guys think is best. v1 v2 And is "Chief" accurate to the official translation? __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2011-01-22, 01:18	Link #48
Ryus The One Eyed King Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lurking Up Ahead	Hmm... well version 2 seems to be a collection of ideas. So over all version 1 looks nicer since version 2 isn't really a version at all but a test bed for font styles. If it's a full blown version, it's clearly doomed to be worse since there's nothing consistent about it. In "version 2" the highlight is only ok, I think you should aim for a highlight closer to the raw where it is much brighter but fades rather than a constant brightness. It doesn't look bad but does nothing for me, though I do like the font size increase. Of the fonts on version 2, clearly the first one in the lower section is closest to what I was talking about to you earlier. However it appears to be a very tall and narrow font (especially the lower case letters) with pretty fancy capital letters, which I feel is kinda wrong for the org to be doing. If it's possible to find a script font without overly fancy capital letters maybe you could try to mimic first font you used in version 1 (font 5), where the capital letters where just larger, I realize this might have to be done manually but it might look very nice. You know I just realized maybe a font like the "Year" at the bottom of the page might look nice besides a script font... what do they call that font type "Old English" or something to that effect. It seems to have the feel I was thinking of as well and seems decently legible. Maybe there might even be a similar font to it, that's even more legible. Font 2 is ok, but I prefer font 5 over it. Fonts 3 and 4 are further away from what I was thinking, so once again I prefer font 5 over it. If possible could you post something like this, just a big test of several fonts you like. Who knows, maybe you could even do one for each font style (one for script font, serif fonts, sans-serif, one for old English fonts (I have none so I couldn't test it myself ), etc). That way people can pick what font style they like, what highlight type they like (I only had very tiny ones... sorry I couldn't post a big one like I was suggesting) and they could help you choose the best looking font of the ones you felt where decent. Now I have only a very basic collection of fonts and of those I have I hated all the scrip fonts... though oddly I still fell maybe there what your looking for and there is a good one out there which would better match the Org, yet still be clear have the feel of your first font. Then post a version of each winner and let the 4 or 5 versions complete, not in a vote but of people saying why they like one or the other and you choose which one feels right to you after the opinions have been given. Hope my opinion, which seems to be the descanting opinion , helps you. I tried to go beyond choose A or B since only one was really a version and the other a collection of ideas. (was I the only one to notice that? or where others just thrown off by the question? I thought you clearly asked us to pick fonts not one version over another... ) __________________

2011-01-22, 16:08	Link #51
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	Page 11 Raw Draft - Top And I won't be doing this for every single page, just in the beginning. __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2011-01-22, 01:46	Link #49
Gooral Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The town where Copernicus was born. Age: 38	I think simple is good and version 1 serves it's purpose perfectly. There's no reason to waste time on choosing fonts. In version 2 while the first font looks quite good and it gives a feel of hand-writing it makes reading harder. So I would stick with the first choice and didn't experiment further but concentrate efforts somewhere else. /IMO

2011-02-11, 13:56	Link #52
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	I finished what had been both cleaned adequately and translated. Pages 1-3, and 11. __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2011-02-11, 14:27	Link #54
Taylor_Maclaurin Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Firstly, thank you for this DragoZERO. Secondly, I nearly fell off my chair when I've read Raki's profile . "Specialty - cooking". In Dragon Ball units it must be at least 2300. Also, these databooks must be a manual for rookie MiB since all of this information should be known to them (especially about youma).

2011-02-12, 09:47	Link #57
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	Great, thanks. You should take down that manga page though. All I need was the chapter and page, I have the volumes on my shelf. __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •