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Old 2013-02-07, 08:17   Link #11961
KLGChaos
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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I've begun to see a correlation between Nishio Ishin and Christopher Nolan. Their fans are extremely loyal and come down hard on anyone who doesn't worship them and find everything they create to be absolute genius. Meanwhile, their detractors always yell about how overrated they are and that those who like them are just bandwagon fanboys. It's quite an amusing parallel.

I think Nishio has flashes of brilliance. I thought Bakemonogatari was an great series, but only because I liked SHAFT's handling of it.... I probably wouldn't have liked the light novel series. Nishio's work is definitely an acquired taste and I feel that Medaka Box is definitely his weakest work and a mediocre manga in general. It's like Haruhi with a twist... and I couldn't stand that series either.
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Old 2013-02-07, 08:32   Link #11962
silvercover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
It's like Haruhi with a twist.
it really is.
some OP insistent character accompanied by the normal snarky guy.

anyway, I did thought a bit of nienami doing something more, when fukurou was explaining how her's is the strongest. I sort of thought maybe she'd teach medaka or assist in the battle.
its just that after the professor was killed and medaka learning her own style got rid of that idea quickly. fighting by herself came from left field.

hehe, nisio seems to have deconstructed the "deus ex machina" scenario, by making nienami easily ignorable and making her tag along while just making a passing comment about her powers.
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Old 2013-02-07, 10:05   Link #11963
Knighto
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And yet the "Nisio has no idea of what he's doing anymore" everyday more stupid argument. That's it, just keep spouting the same bullshit all over again to convinces yourselves. You're stubborn like a brick wall

But I don't care anymore. I loved everything in this chapter.
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Old 2013-02-07, 10:42   Link #11964
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
And yet the "Nisio has no idea of what he's doing anymore" everyday more stupid argument. That's it, just keep spouting the same bullshit all over again to convinces yourselves. You're stubborn like a brick wall

But I don't care anymore. I loved everything in this chapter.
Thank you for proving my point.
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Old 2013-02-07, 11:04   Link #11965
Endscape
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Thank you for proving my point.
So the fact that someone likes the manga, means that they're irrational fanboys? Quite a self centered way of thinking there.


In any case, I quite liked the chapter, especially Nienami at the end there. I look forward to next week.
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Old 2013-02-07, 11:05   Link #11966
Knighto
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^And thank you for proving mine. You know, your opinion holds as much worth as mine

There was once a time you had arguments to justify your position. Not anymore.
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Old 2013-02-07, 11:11   Link #11967
Clarste
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Originally Posted by OmegaShadow View Post
Almost no one, since a lot of people were too busy hating on Medaka to think about anything else.
Uh... I thought it was so obvious that it wasn't worth mentioning. Pretty much everything that's happened in the hospital has been leading up to Nienami saving the day.
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Old 2013-02-07, 11:36   Link #11968
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
*snip*
My problem is that while Medaka has purportedly changed as a character (as in that she is being self-sacrificing because she wants to be, not because it is the foundation of her existence) and is thus no longer a monster (as her being monstrous was because of her extreme selflessness while being unable to truly understand others which is not an opinion I entirely agree with but whatever) the characters are now treating her as though she hasn't changed at all.
There's no consistency here. It really feels like an excuse to have Iihiko get angry and beat her to death.
Either way, this is going to end happily since Medaka still has to undergo the Kurokami Trials so I really don't see how this is going to end up delivering any sort of real message.

Last edited by Tyabann; 2013-02-07 at 11:57.
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Old 2013-02-07, 12:02   Link #11969
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Selflessness is not greedy. What matters is the intent behind which you do things, not necessarily their consequences (especially since there will be no lasting consequences here.)
That depends on your viewpoint. Trying to get the best possible result rather than compromising and going for the easy solution can be seen as being greedy.

Quote:
But Nisio believes that people who put on a facade of false perfection in order to deal with the fact that they sleep on the floor deserve to get beaten by their parents, so I'm not really surprised.
Where did you get this from? If you tell me Monogatari, I'll laugh.

Quote:
And I would certainly wonder how intentional this is. It really doesn't look like it's supposed to be ironic, having the monstrous bodyhopper scream MONSTER over and over again while beating someone to death. It's just... stupid.
I thought of it as ironic myself. Iihiko, an existence that's pretty much like a monster, is calling Medaka a monster because she's different from him, which is a pretty human thing to do, which is ironic, because Iihiko isn't really human either.
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Old 2013-02-07, 12:12   Link #11970
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
My problem is that while Medaka has purportedly changed as a character (as in that she is being self-sacrificing because she wants to be, not because it is the foundation of her existence) and is thus no longer a monster (as her being monstrous was because of her extreme selflessness while being unable to truly understand others which is not an opinion I entirely agree with but whatever) the characters are now treating her as though she hasn't changed at all.
Well, just to chime in, I'd say that what we have here is Medaka being selfish. While she appears to be no different from before, her actions at this point reflect how much she values everyone around her. She values them so much that she refuses to let go of any one of them. That's some greed right there. After all, the line between selfishness and selflessness lie within the intention behind the action.

So in the end, it seems Medaka has gone from one extreme to the other. The only thing that hasn't changed in this respect is how she absolutely refuses to compromise her position. So, no. It all makes perfect sense to me. If you want to argue about the execution, then that's a whole different matter...
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Old 2013-02-07, 12:44   Link #11971
kenjtr
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Medakas action recemble a pure action of a child she is just pestering everyone lol and thats why she is so unreasonable .
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Old 2013-02-07, 12:54   Link #11972
DawnEmperor
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It is indeed rather interesting how we all view Medaka. Is it really heroic to never give up? There's always that fine line that we straddle. Part of me felt Medaka was selfish("I'll definitely become friends with you"), while another part knew that Shiranui felt similarly so it should be alright...right? Should Medaka just meddle if Shiranui is genuinely fine with accepting her fate? When should we let someone decide their own fate, even if it seems detrimental?

Medaka is admirable because she constantly tries to defy constraints, but she's also a bit irritating in her stubbornness. Maybe I'm resigned, but she is a main character, a way to analyze the various roles that the characters are given.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:15   Link #11973
Knighto
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Medaka's portrayal as a person is to be equally loved and hated, and Nisio achieved this as he intended.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:19   Link #11974
chidorimen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post

Where did you get this from? If you tell me Monogatari, I'll laugh.
Well it is straight out of Hanekawa's situation in Neko black.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:27   Link #11975
Knighto
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
It is indeed rather interesting how we all view Medaka. Is it really heroic to never give up? There's always that fine line that we straddle. Part of me felt Medaka was selfish("I'll definitely become friends with you"), while another part knew that Shiranui felt similarly so it should be alright...right? Should Medaka just meddle if Shiranui is genuinely fine with accepting her fate? When should we let someone decide their own fate, even if it seems detrimental?

Medaka is admirable because she constantly tries to defy constraints, but she's also a bit irritating in her stubbornness. Maybe I'm resigned, but she is a main character, a way to analyze the various roles that the characters are given.
And that sums it up. She has good and bad points, but some people seem to only look at the bad points. Ever wondered why I can't hate her? It's simply because she's no different than any other person with a will of steel and an urge to protect the loved ones. The only reason why she is disliked by some is because she was born as Iihiko (what an irony btw) said: a monster with inmense power and seemingly unbeatable. Yet, in this battle, Medaka was defeated.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:32   Link #11976
Endscape
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Originally Posted by chidorimen View Post
Well it is straight out of Hanekawa's situation in Neko black.
I know that. But he stated that Nisio believes Hanakawa deserved to get beaten by her parents, which is rubbish.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:44   Link #11977
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
She values them so much that she refuses to let go of any one of them. That's some greed right there.
Trying to save your friend from being possessed by Satan even at the cost of your own life is admirable human behaviour. It's exactly what people should do in this sort of situation.
And, yet, she's still a 'monster'. Why? She's not doing it for the 'wrong' reasons anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
The only reason why she is disliked by some is because she was born as Iihiko (what an irony btw) said: a monster with inmense power and seemingly unbeatable.
I've said before, that's not why I dislike her. I dislike her because she's not a very believable or sympathetic character, she's poorly written, and whenever she appears she takes the spotlight from the characters who are believable, sympathetic, and well-written.
It has nothing to do with how powerful she is. Quit saying that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Medaka's portrayal as a person is to be equally loved and hated, and Nisio achieved this as he intended.
The thing is that I'm not sure what his intentions are with her character and even the manga as a whole. But I don't know, maybe this is actually leading up to something. That said, if Nienami does anything other than give Medaka an opportunity to free Shiranui so that everyone can go home happy I'll be really surprised.
I really hope I can eat my words next week. Feel free to laugh at me if I do.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:54   Link #11978
Knighto
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
That said, if Nienami does anything other than give Medaka an opportunity to free Shiranui so that everyone can go home happy I'll be really surprised.
I really hope I can eat my words next week. Feel free to laugh at me if I do.
Back then it was believed also impossible for Medaka to lose the election, remember.

This is quite the turning point. Not even once was she defeated fighing someoen before (Koga beating her due to the loss of her abnormality and her amnesia doesn't count), and now what. After facing off with a demon who can deal you damage that lasts for all eternity, with her stomach drilled and her body completely messed up, with nothing else but a style to support herself up. Perhaps is true that she's gonna die smiling.

Besides, Medaka winning would be equally or worse as Hanten warned her.

And releasing Shiranui is Zen's job.
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Old 2013-02-07, 13:57   Link #11979
Tyabann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Back then it was believed also impossible for Medaka to lose the election, remember.
Well, she lost the election, but she still won a moral victory, so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Perhaps is true that she's gonna die smiling.
She still has to go through the Kurokami Trials. She's going to survive this.
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Old 2013-02-07, 14:14   Link #11980
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Trying to save your friend from being possessed by Satan even at the cost of your own life is admirable human behaviour. It's exactly what people should do in this sort of situation.
Yes, it's what people should do, however most people wouldn't do that in the first place. They would have compromised, given up on Shiranui to save themselves. The fact that Medaka hasn't is why people are calling her greedy.

Quote:
And, yet, she's still a 'monster'. Why? She's not doing it for the 'wrong' reasons.
Who is the person calling her a monster again? It's Iihiko, a monster himself. That's the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Besides, Medaka winning would be equally or worse as Hanten warned her.

And releasing Shiranui is Zen's job.
You know, I figured Shiranui was going to save herself, actually.
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