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Old 2017-10-09, 16:46   Link #8061
H4cko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakato View Post
This has got to be the worst volume so far. Overlord seems to be better off giving beta-Ainz as little screen time as possible. Seeing him bow to a squire was annoying.
He was just a salary-men a few months/years ago, he still not mastered the role playing thing yet - and will never do, that's one of his charms after all...

If we consider that vol 13 will complement this one, nothing to complain on my end. Unless Neia dies and disappears....
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Old 2017-10-09, 18:25   Link #8062
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Hm... Second season of the anime will air this winter so next vol may be published at some point so the sales are better right?
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Old 2017-10-09, 20:08   Link #8063
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I doubt Neia is going to be killed off unless the author wants massive hate since she's a pretty popular character
We all know the next volume will turn out with Ainz winging it and things will somehow work out with a sasuga Ainz when people misunderstand him
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Old 2017-10-09, 20:20   Link #8064
GreyZone
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I didn't read vol. 12 yet, but the fact is that everything always ends in Ainz's favor. At the cost of Ainz's first adventurer companions dying he got two alchemists and a straight path to admantine rank as Momon in vol. 2.

Even the one arguable exception, which is vol. 3 gave Ainz the VERY cruicial information that characters, or at least the NPCs from Nazarick, can still be revived by the same system as the one which was used in YGGDRASIL.


Also notice how in vol. 11 Ainz at first says in the abandoned city "hey let's time our help for the Dwarfes just right to get the best negotiation starting position" and Ainz proceedes to do that, but for some reason Suzuki Satoru starts narrating as if he never had that idea and the perfect timing somehow being pure coincidence and luck. Similar scenarios happened over and over again. Also there are some things that happen off-screen that get casually mentioned as if it was nothing, like Ainz somehow knowing about the fat frost dragon having his personal book stash in his room, even though there was never an indication that the fat frost dragon mentioned that to Ainz. I noticed because I was awaiting from the beginning when the fat frost dragon would reveal his book stash as part of his persuasion attempt to be viewed as useful, only to learn that it appearently happend off-screen. Who knows what other kinds of things that were very cruicial to the story might have happened "off-screen"...?

No matter what, I don't think it's possible for Ainz to just be senile and forgetful... I cannot buy something as ridiculous as one of the most powerful undead species with traits that specifically keep them rational (emotion override) having such mental defects, no matter how much of a negative influence Suzuki Satoru might have. While luck can explain the positive outcomes for Ainz and Nazarick, it cannot explain Ainz's over the top forgetfullness about plans he made that he forgot about even though he completed them anyway, supposedly "by luck".

The only thing that can properly explain such inconsistencies is that Suzuki Satoru isn't in complete control of Ainz's actions at all times and that there is instead either a different personality or entity within Ainz that also has partial control. It's also possible that, as others already mentioned, it just being some kind of subconcious manifestation with no real consciousness of it's own.


EDIT: It might be interesting to re-read some of the earlier volumes while leaving out the thoughts of Suzuki Satoru. Even the anime put emphasis on making the Suzuki Satoru voice (or rather thoughts) distinguishable from Ainz's voice, though to be fair that gimmick might really just exist to differentiate speaking from thinking, since's Ainz's mouth isn't moving while speaking.
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Old 2017-10-09, 20:49   Link #8065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
I didn't read vol. 12 yet, but the fact is that everything always ends in Ainz's favor. At the cost of Ainz's first adventurer companions dying he got two alchemists and a straight path to admantine rank as Momon in vol. 2.

Even the one arguable exception, which is vol. 3 gave Ainz the VERY cruicial information that characters, or at least the NPCs from Nazarick, can still be revived by the same system as the one which was used in YGGDRASIL.


Also notice how in vol. 11 Ainz at first says in the abandoned city "hey let's time our help for the Dwarfes just right to get the best negotiation starting position" and Ainz proceedes to do that, but for some reason Suzuki Satoru starts narrating as if he never had that idea and the perfect timing somehow being pure coincidence and luck. Similar scenarios happened over and over again. Also there are some things that happen off-screen that get casually mentioned as if it was nothing, like Ainz somehow knowing about the fat frost dragon having his personal book stash in his room, even though there was never an indication that the fat frost dragon mentioned that to Ainz. I noticed because I was awaiting from the beginning when the fat frost dragon would reveal his book stash as part of his persuasion attempt to be viewed as useful, only to learn that it appearently happend off-screen. Who knows what other kinds of things that were very cruicial to the story might have happened "off-screen"...?

No matter what, I don't think it's possible for Ainz to just be senile and forgetful... I cannot buy something as ridiculous as one of the most powerful undead species with traits that specifically keep them rational (emotion override) having such mental defects, no matter how much of a negative influence Suzuki Satoru might have. While luck can explain the positive outcomes for Ainz and Nazarick, it cannot explain Ainz's over the top forgetfullness about plans he made that he forgot about even though he completed them anyway, supposedly "by luck".

The only thing that can properly explain such inconsistencies is that Suzuki Satoru isn't in complete control of Ainz's actions at all times and that there is instead either a different personality or entity within Ainz that also has partial control. It's also possible that, as others already mentioned, it just being some kind of subconcious manifestation with no real consciousness of it's own.


EDIT: It might be interesting to re-read some of the earlier volumes while leaving out the thoughts of Suzuki Satoru. Even the anime put emphasis on making the Suzuki Satoru voice (or rather thoughts) distinguishable from Ainz's voice, though to be fair that gimmick might really just exist to differentiate speaking from thinking, since's Ainz's mouth isn't moving while speaking.
Nah, He is average, but he is very lucky and having demiurge helps a lot.
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Old 2017-10-09, 21:22   Link #8066
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by SolidN7 View Post
Nah, He is average, but he is very lucky and having demiurge helps a lot.
But demi-urge is also limited in some ways. He is rather bad at analyzing fights. He was not very impressive in vol 3 and needed Cocytus and others to explain quite a lot to him.

The only reason that didn't have much impact yet is because Nazarick won all battles without any contest. From vol. 1-11 the most dangerous non-Nazarick opponent (vol. 3 mind control aside) was probably the daddy frost dragon who died after 1 use of grasp heart. Any battles that didn't end instantly were based on self-imposed limits for the sake of gaining better understanding of the new world's fighting styles.

What do you think would happen to demi-urge's predictions if it includes a battle between lvl 100 characters? It might not go so smoothly.
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Old 2017-10-10, 02:00   Link #8067
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Originally Posted by H4cko View Post
He was just a salary-men a few months/years ago, he still not mastered the role playing thing yet - and will never do, that's one of his charms after all...
His strongest point was bullshitting through everything. Until now. This time Ainz acted by Demiurge's scenario. That showed a huge flaw in his character - he is just not that smart.

We should wait until Ainz will decide act on his own. It will be hilarious.
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Old 2017-10-11, 05:27   Link #8068
fishstick
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His strongest point was bullshitting through everything. Until now. This time Ainz acted by Demiurge's scenario. That showed a huge flaw in his character - he is just not that smart.
That is one of the flaws of Suzuki Satoru's character - he is quite ordinary by human standards.

He is remarkably "unexceptional".

The V12 afterword expresses this where Maruyama puts him dead last on his own list of "competent" leaders shown in the Overlord story thus far.

"Ainz Ooal Gown" has no spectacular quality that sets him apart from any other bloke you can point to on a New York street - except for having a knack to collect stuff.

But Suzuki's "human weakness" is contrasted with one thing - he has god-like power in this new world and that TRUMPS everything.

Reread Ainz's V12 speech about the Law of the Jungle in explaining away his actions. Here Maruyama explains why Ainz is able to get away with what he does.

Because the Law of the Jungle is in truth "supreme". It is a fundamental truth.

A worm could never tell an eagle what to do. No matter if it there are ten thousand of them versus the one eagle.

This is one of the underlining themes of the series that is looked over quite a bit because readers tend to focus more on the characters, the world building, and the conflicts that emerge due to Nazarick's venture into this new world.

For instance - you take a self-absorbed man (real life), who is not intelligent beyond the norm, and has no real drive to succeed beyond his own self-interests.

Now give that same guy Superman's powers.

He'll fucking change the world - in some way or the other.

Overlord is at its heart a story of this normal everyday guy (albeit from a dystopian future) who is put into that same situation in a power fantasy setting.

Last edited by fishstick; 2017-10-17 at 06:03.
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Old 2017-10-28, 22:28   Link #8069
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Originally Posted by fishstick View Post
That is one of the flaws of Suzuki Satoru's character - he is quite ordinary by human standards.

He is remarkably "unexceptional".

The V12 afterword expresses this where Maruyama puts him dead last on his own list of "competent" leaders shown in the Overlord story thus far.

"Ainz Ooal Gown" has no spectacular quality that sets him apart from any other bloke you can point to on a New York street - except for having a knack to collect stuff.

But Suzuki's "human weakness" is contrasted with one thing - he has god-like power in this new world and that TRUMPS everything.

Reread Ainz's V12 speech about the Law of the Jungle in explaining away his actions. Here Maruyama explains why Ainz is able to get away with what he does.

Because the Law of the Jungle is in truth "supreme". It is a fundamental truth.

A worm could never tell an eagle what to do. No matter if it there are ten thousand of them versus the one eagle.

This is one of the underlining themes of the series that is looked over quite a bit because readers tend to focus more on the characters, the world building, and the conflicts that emerge due to Nazarick's venture into this new world.

For instance - you take a self-absorbed man (real life), who is not intelligent beyond the norm, and has no real drive to succeed beyond his own self-interests.

Now give that same guy Superman's powers.

He'll fucking change the world - in some way or the other.

Overlord is at its heart a story of this normal everyday guy (albeit from a dystopian future) who is put into that same situation in a power fantasy setting.

^This, agree
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Old 2017-11-10, 18:25   Link #8070
GreyZone
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In the new preview for Overlord anime S2...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stark700 View Post
Preview:



The scene of that beast running toward Momon and Nabe... Is that supposed to be a Basilisk? AFAIK the whole Basilisk thing was in the Drama CD 2, or did I mix that up? I never got to read the transcript-translation, but it DOES look quite similar to the Basilisk on the Drama CD 2 cover...

But if that IS the case, can we perhaps expect the content of the other Drama CD as well?
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Old 2017-11-11, 06:53   Link #8071
fishstick
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
But if that IS the case, can we perhaps expect the content of the other Drama CD as well?
Judging from the preview - it looks like Season 2 could be 18+ episodes.

I mean it showed scenes from the Lizardmen arc, Men in the Kingdom arc, the Gigant Basilisk story, and two intermissions.

Hopefully all the above isn't crammed into 12 or 13 episodes and is instead adapted into an 18-20 episode season.

Overlord deserves it.

Rumors are floating about Season 2 being 2 cour - that is 24 episodes.

(ps: I love Zesshi's design)
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Old 2017-11-17, 11:11   Link #8072
Corrill
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I just finished vol. 11... and I noticed something. People have been speculating whether or not Ainz is being influenced mentally in some way by himself being undead. But other than maybe the emotion override, I don't think so.

Rather than that it seems more like Ainz consists of 2 entities. One is the mind of the player Suzuki Satoru, the other is the Game Avatar Momonga who is shaped by all the actions that avatar took during the time he was controlled by the player in YGGDRASIL (as opposed to being formed from the "setting" like the NPC). The thing is that at the very least the Suzuki Satoru side is NOT aware of the Momonga side, which results in the "ultimate luck" situation we see, even though it is infact caused by the Momonga side of Ainz, i.e. the whole novel we have had an unreliable narrator.

The reason why I say "the Avatar Momonga" specifically instead of simply "the undead side" of his is simple: He doesn't act like an undead, but rather like a player from YGGDRASIL. He acts indifferent about deaths of living beings, but, and that's important, he never shows any signs of "hating living beings", even though hating living beings is repeatedly stressed in the novel as being a "universal trait of all undead". So it's safe to say that Ainz is completely detached from this racial aspect.


Now, what is this theory, that Ainz suffers from some kind of DID or Alien Hand Syndrome, actually based on? Let me give you three points:

1. Near the end of vol. 11 when Demi-urge asks Ainz how far can Ainz see into the future, he answers "10000 years" while thinking about some unrelated non-sense about turtles' lifespan, resulting in a "funny misunderstanding". But if you flip it around, what if Suzuki Satoru was aware that he was about to say something and also what it was (he shares the same body after all) but didn't understand why? The answer is: He would RATIONALIZE it. Similar scenes, where Ainz blurted things out that seemed totally different from what Satoru's narration was indicating a few lines earlier, happened over and over again.

2. The whole "crashing the Colosseum emperor-theocracy meeting" issue. Seems like it was all just a big coincidence and luck. But was it? There was one important clue that's related but wasn't really dwelled on much in the narration: The fact that Ainz spied on the Emperor - A LOT. It's very likely that Ainz had enough information to plan it out. Strangely enough the important information that Ainz gained and which he uses to succeed in many matters often times gets supposedly "forgotten" by Satoru until he "recalls" it again after the fact or not even that (think of all the times he narrates "did such a thing happen?" or "did I say such a thing?"), I am left to wonder if that information perhaps went to a different part of his "mind" for processing.

3. In battles all the embarrassing stuff just disappears like it never happened. Probably because the two minds are in sync. In those situations he really seems like the Overlord, but strangely enough Satoru himself doesn't seem to be aware of that fact for some reason.
Also every time something reminds him of YGGDRASIL days, Ainz always acts on it, full of determination. Those are probably "in sync" moments as well.






tl;dr: Ainz is made out of two beings: Suzuki Satoru and Momonga. Momonga is actually super smart and all the praise by the Nazarick NPCs for Ainz is actually spot on, but the Satoru part of him (whose PoV we follow) just doesn't notice. We get fooled by this unreliable narrator into thinking that Ainz has, outside battle, at most average intelligence and that he just has unlimited luck.




EDIT: Or maybe I have just become infected with the "sasuga, ainz-sama!"-virus... who knows.

I mean... how can you NOT? Escpacially if you listen to the soundtrack

Spoiler:
You must see the opening lyric too, I am sure the main writer of the lyric is author.
The bold words is the indicate that Suzuki Satoru is little by little notice that Momonga/Ainz take his body.

Where does the answer lead? Seek it out!

Where’s my soul?




It’s like a viral sweet dream, wandering,

But when we wake up, all I’ve got is bones

I’m in a panic? Get out, hurry

Oh, there are mysteries and miseries



Dead or alive, swaying at the brink

As I roam right to left to hell

A lonely invitation, the disappearance of emotion

I will dance – 1, 2, 3 steps on this dark stage



Raise your flag, march on, fight

I place my hands deep inside the mask, but there’s nothing but bones

Wars and swords, tears and blood

Without warning, the overflowing power within me comes out as mocking laughter



Where does the answer lead? Seek it out!

Where’s my soul? Where’s my heart?

I’m getting pulled into this reality

Don’t hesitate, go this way

I don’t understand but I don’t care - even if I have to put the power just for the show

I’ll just keep surviving in this world

Ah – The pain I once thought was gone is aching again

A Misery-world



The cold jet black sky at midnight

The darkness of night always drives me mad

Where is that star now? I found the star now

But it’s so beautiful; I’m so doubtful



Desire lives in the heart of confusion

If you take a look around at the sky and land and sea

There’s a temptation to climb higher – toward total domination

Ascend – 1, 2, 3 steps to the royal throne



Cast a spell, call them up

Summon despair! Drunk with emptiness, my soldier dance!

Shouts and barks, grief and death

Ruthlessly cutting down those quivering in fear



Stay cruel to the end and expose it all

Break it all, take it all


What do I do with all that’s in my hands, (I think he forgot about what he do, its like he says about that)

I just pray, or just play?

Its not like that - I just can’t stop

Holding on to these doubts that just won’t fade




I will take back everything I’ve lost

Ah – even if that, too, has been covered in madness

By a crazy world
( I think he will take his friend back whatever his friend condition normal or crazy because of World 2138 condition, even his friend greedy)



The heart I can’t see and my body that certainly exists -

I swear on my life that I want to have faith in these things




Abandoning the answers and get running!

Where’s my soul? Where’s my heart?

Believe in that determination!

Don’t hesitate, go this way;

I don’t understand and I don’t care-

No matter if this is a dream or reality!



Somehow, I’ll just survive on through this world!

As far as I can go; as far as these feet will take me,

In this Misery-world!

from : http://www.lyrical-nonsense.com/lyrics/oxt/clattanoia/
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Old 2017-11-17, 11:21   Link #8073
Corrill
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^^ Ikr... so depressing dat ima gonna have to dump more of my hard-earned $$$ on troll-verlord merchandises, cos-play as Hamsuki at the latest anime-convention and learn how to execute Ainz's signature "heart-grasp" move... dam u, author, why woncha just end the series already...

^ What Ima actually afraid of is not that the story world become static and sterile, but rather the author running out of ideas after some time, coming back to the loose ends, and THEN failing to give a logical conclusion to the gazillion troll-herrings he had been throwing about... That's what's frustrating - not his style or ideas.
There is no way it will become like that because Maruyama sensei says in the interview magazine that he will write 20-30 vol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overlord/co...ight_novel_ga/
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Old 2017-11-21, 08:03   Link #8074
GreyZone
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I just realized that Aura might be the one who will keep the "Satoru Suzuki" part of Ainz alive. Why?

Because she witnessed kindness and affection toward the Nazarick NPCs from Momonga/Ainz that he didn't show at the time of the game.


She did witness the following things:

1. Ainz showed concern and gave the twins water to drink, right after Nazarick was transported and the twins noticed that he was behaving much kinder and friendlier than they remember from before (see vol. 1).

2. Aura witnesses how Ainz can't easily bring himself to finish off Shalltear (see vol. 3).

3. During the dwarf arc, Aura (at least from her PoV) witnessed that Ainz played the fool to "test" her and Shalltear, while he constantly emphasizes their safety, showing that he is worried about them as well, even entrusting them with a world-class item. No matter how much it serves as an "insurance" against a repeat of mind-control, the guardians still consider it a honor and a sign of trust to be bestowed a world-class item (see vol. 11).

(You could also count the lap-sitting event in vol. 10, but I am not sure about that one.)


I guess Sebas will have a similar role. Just looking at him made Ainz take a 180 turn at his plans for Carne village in vol. 1, just because Sebas reminded Ainz of Touch Me, so his influence on Ainz is not to be underestimated.
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