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Old 2015-10-25, 09:28   Link #61
Ryuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
snip
I dunno about quantum physics, but basically, through fighting in different timelines, Canon was trying to change the outcome and reach a future where everyone survived, but it was leading to a future where only she and Kazuki would exist (which she desired because she loves Kazuki). In the present, I believe courses of events were changing that would lead them towards a (potentially better) future (see Sui's mother throwing Plan L into the sea and them figuring out how to deal with the assimilation process that Leo and co. were going through). In the end, she decided a future where only she and Kazuki survived wasn't the right thing, and she was running out of time, so she spent the remaining time left to make the Einherjar that she saw in her vision as a parting gift, hoping it'd be enough to give them a fighting chance. Then she was assimilated.
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Old 2015-10-25, 13:04   Link #62
Shinji103
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And goodbye to one of my favorite characters of the series. It hurts to see such a long-time series veteran go.

Ah man, Kazuki is gonna be hurting when he gets back and hears the news.
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Old 2015-10-26, 17:20   Link #63
Ghostfriendly
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KANON why did you have to die? Sobsobsob
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Old 2015-10-27, 10:59   Link #64
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
This whole thing seems very.. quantum physics to me..

The act of observing a result and thus validating it, and thus effecting reality itself. that reminds me a lot of the "observer effect"

In Canon's case she observed the future where everyone died, thus validating it. You could say that she already doomed them all.

But then they throw another angle that if you fight in the future this someone changes the present? why? Her vision didn't change from what i have seen. It's still littered with corpses and scrap metal.

On the other hand, I understand her decision at the end of this episode. Had she left, it would probably validate the future in which only 2 people are left alive and everyone on the island are dead.

I think still needs more explanation though, particularly to those who aren't familiar with the observer theory. Heck, I'm still confused about things.

Edit: any quantum physics experts feel free to correct me
You are correct. However remember Kanon is the only observer of the future here, so as long as she is removed from the current timeline, the events where everyone is confirmed dead and gone will only belong to her and not anyone else.

To stay, or not to stay - that is the question
Whether 'tis single soul in the future to exist
The loneliness and devastation of outrageous future
Or to take arms against a reality of confirmation,
And by opposing so. To leave- to disappear-
No more
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Old 2015-10-30, 13:16   Link #65
HunterSeeker
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Episode 18 changes the OP and ED, and it certainly doesn't disappoint.
Spoiler:

As for the episode itself......
Spoiler:


Edit: Edited parts regarding OPED from what I collected from Niconico.
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Last edited by HunterSeeker; 2015-10-30 at 13:45.
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Old 2015-10-30, 17:06   Link #66
Stark700
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Even for a "smile", I find this to be creepy:



Overall, an alright episode. Tension increasing as the story progresses and then there's the conflict involving Canon.
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Old 2015-10-30, 19:34   Link #67
Tiberium Wolf
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Oh the new ending right at the end shows the truth nature of the island.
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Old 2015-10-30, 20:58   Link #68
dark998
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That Leviathan-class festum sure was impressive, even if we only saw his frontal part out of the water. Canon may be gone but her legacy and hope live on with the Einherjar model, packed with countermeasures against the assimilation process.

Last part of the episode was very tense and for a second I thought Akira was a goner, fortunately Maya saved the day again. That girl is on a roll lately.


New OP and ED are both very nice, especially the OP visuals being a mix of the previous two and even managed to include characters from the prequel OVA.
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Old 2015-10-30, 21:32   Link #69
Terrestrial Dream
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This show is so good. All the suspense that builds up, every time you think they figured out the enemy, Festum comes up and throw another curve ball. And all the different situation the characters they go threw and what they had to threw away for them to just survive... holy fuck, this is too good of a show.
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Old 2015-10-31, 01:30   Link #70
Friday
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if I'm correct regarding the island, its built like a Catamaran.

great episode
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Old 2015-10-31, 04:53   Link #71
loco_loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterSeeker View Post
Episode 18 changes the OP and ED, and it certainly doesn't disappoint.
Spoiler:

As for the episode itself......
Spoiler:


Edit: Edited parts regarding OPED from what I collected from Niconico.
Seri? She besides Hiroto in the classroom in the OP scene (her hair was still short).
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Old 2015-10-31, 05:28   Link #72
Retrorock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loco_loco View Post
Seri? She besides Hiroto in the classroom in the OP scene (her hair was still short).
According to the OP, she doesn't get a Einhenjar Model Fafner, so it's highly likely she is the next to go. Well technically none of the second Gen kids did, but the ZERO model is there, which was piloted by Akira and Rina, so that's them accounted for.
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Old 2015-10-31, 11:28   Link #73
HunterSeeker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorock View Post
According to the OP, she doesn't get a Einhenjar Model Fafner, so it's highly likely she is the next to go. Well technically none of the second Gen kids did, but the ZERO model is there, which was piloted by Akira and Rina, so that's them accounted for.
Exactly what I meant. Since Zero Fafner is there for the twins it's safe to say they're safe, for now.
Spoiler:
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Obviously ,hope is the first step to the road of disappointment.
But no fear, people can only overcome disappointment when one still has hope in the mind.
So keep on fighting UNTIL THE GOAL IS REACHED!!
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Old 2015-10-31, 15:01   Link #74
Shinji103
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Geez, those Human army murderers just won't learn, will they? Committing precious human and military resources? Wasting time and lives for what? To wipe out a bunch of refugees who have been "infected"? Now they're trying so hard that they'll infiltrate the camp to kill the pilots, and even resort to cyanide(?) capsules to prevent capture? I'd cheer for the Festum to make these monsters suffer long, agonizing deaths and wipe out the whole army if it didn't mean they'd just focus all their efforts on the good guys afterwards.

Just our guys should wipe 'em out and be done with it. Even going out of their way to hunt these killers down would be worth it. They're the ones trying to slaughter innocent people, they're not worth the effort or lives lost by letting them liveto come back again and again. It would be one thing if they actually got smart, realized this was a pointless waste of time and life, and left the refugees alone, but I'd rather wipe out murderers than let them live and kill innocent people. It's not like they can throw the lot of them in jail, much less during combat.

The "Human" (*laugh*) army has been shown time and again to be nothing more than murderers. The whole purpose of killing Kazuki and Soushi is so those killers can come in and wipe out everyone. Kazuki and Soushi should just take out the trash next time; the refugees shouldn't have to pay the price for their morals. It looks like Maya is getting that message now, though I'm sure the show will depict it as her becoming too close to a cold-hearted killer herself.
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Old 2015-11-01, 00:59   Link #75
Dharma
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Human army actions is indeed strange. Probably denying Salvator-models to enemy and/or getting them for themselves is part of it. But another part is probably Billy. It is not so hard to... emphasize reports in such manner that wiping out refugees will actually seem to be a good decision. Witch, in turn, will provide the opportunity to rescue Billy from nearly certain death.

Quote:
Kazuki and Soushi should just take out the trash next time; the refugees shouldn't have to pay the price for their morals.
Morals - surprise, surprise - exists for a reason. When people acts against morals their personality - soul if you want - rot. And the end result for such "rot" is usually even uglier then the cause. I actually agree that in this case you probably right, but it is not such simple and clear-cut decision as you seem to imply.
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Old 2015-11-01, 01:32   Link #76
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
Morals - surprise, surprise - exists for a reason. When people acts against morals their personality - soul if you want - rot. And the end result for such "rot" is usually even uglier then the cause. I actually agree that in this case you probably right, but it is not such simple and clear-cut decision as you seem to imply.
You might have a point if in this case following your morals had a better result. But this isn't our peaceful world where you can rely on law enforcement or the government to reel these killers in. It's the "government" that's telling them to do this in the first place. The good guys need to take a stand and take care of the problem themselves. The longer they leave these monesters alive, the more innocent people die, and there's no police, FBI, or whatever to stop them. There's no law or order to rely on. Sadly it's just like the wild west, but worse because of the war.
And you're implying that I'm saying it's a simple decision, but it's only simple because of the context. It's literally as simple as "if monsters live, innocents die." The human army killers don't even show the slightest hesitation or remorse, which makes them even worse. And there's nothing and nobody else to stop them.
When the US colonies couldn't take any more of Britain's tyranny they took up arms for independence, and it's not even like Britain was slaughtering them just for living. Taking down the whole Human army isn't an option here (though between Kazuki and Soushi it might be possible), but wiping out these killers to protect innocent people is nothing compared to fighting a whole war for independence.
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Old 2015-11-01, 02:33   Link #77
Dharma
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So we are mostly in agreement
I want to point out that it is same old dilemma as "only those who don't want to rule can rule properly". In this case "only those who can't kill should be allowed to kill". We, looking from outside, can see clearly that they indeed should be allowed to kill, but for exactly the same reason why they can't (not easily). It is easy to make such decision for someone else, but not for yourself.
I also believe that human army is showcase for my point:
ROE Alpha was something to preserve lives at first, but look what happened with people who were enforcing it? They lost their purpose, they no longer care about reasons why ROEA exists, they pretty much beyond salvation. Because they killed a lot of other people who where beyond salvation. Doomed if you do and doomed if you don't situation.
But yes, situation at hand seems to be more "may be doomed later if you do and certainly doomed right now if you don't" kind.
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Old 2015-11-01, 08:54   Link #78
loco_loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterSeeker View Post
Exactly what I meant. Since Zero Fafner is there for the twins it's safe to say they're safe, for now.
Spoiler:
I also wonder who will gonna use Mark Zwei (previously piloted by Karin Kuramae in RIGHT OF LEFT) and another new black Fafner (but, I don't know what symbol) which appear in the ED scene...

Spoiler for Picture:


Spoiler for Picture:
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Old 2015-11-01, 09:43   Link #79
azarhal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterSeeker View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2015-11-01, 15:16   Link #80
HunterSeeker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loco_loco View Post
I also wonder who will gonna use Mark Zwei (previously piloted by Karin Kuramae in RIGHT OF LEFT) and another new black Fafner (but, I don't know what symbol) which appear in the ED scene...

Spoiler for Picture:


Spoiler for Picture:
Zwei was scrapped as spare parts, according to those data I got.
Spoiler for the black Fafner:

Also regarding the morals discussed above: While Human Army itself littered with SOBs everywhere and there, remember the New UN and the Human Army fought their losing battles against Festum for quite a long time. Regardless of their morals, Hester and all below her are fighting for human dominance in the Earth so, in order to achieve that, will use any means necessary; and the dragged warfare against Festum has probably driven those remained to become mindless soldiers since, if you don't kill any non-human or those without obedience, they're probably next ones who're going to die.
On the other hand, while we all certainly want Kazuki and Soushi lay waste on the Human Army even for juts a lesson, remember they aren't grown up to kill fellow humans, nor going openly hostile against Human Army does any good to them: without the bulk of Human Army, Tatsuyajima won't survive on their own.
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Obviously ,hope is the first step to the road of disappointment.
But no fear, people can only overcome disappointment when one still has hope in the mind.
So keep on fighting UNTIL THE GOAL IS REACHED!!
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