(L) Magi - Labyrinth of Magic [manga]

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Bogart

That's not really any different from Sinbad forcing Scherazade into joining a confederacy now is it? It's just like how the King of Balbaad refused to join the 7 Seas Alliance when Kou began to pressure them. Don't you think it's weird that even with his health failing him and a couple of loathsome brats serving as his heirs, he either refused to join or it was never offered to him? Despite the fact that Sinbad had met the king even before most of his households?

Yes it is different. Sinbad isn't threatening anyone All sinbad did to get Riem to join him, was by outlying the mutual benefits. If Riem had refused his offer Sinbad would have done nothing to them. That is how alliances work. Kou on the otherhand, will use their military to force your subjugation if you do not give it willingly.

You'd think that Balbaad would have been the 2nd or 3rd country to join the growing monopoly on sea trade, especially since they had a personal connection to the CEO, but they weren't. It wasn't until the king had died and the country had fallen into disrepair that Sinbad would show up and try to save it.

Actually that is something i find strange. There is no answer in the manga why Balbadd did not join the seven seas alliance; this is something that will likely be answered in Sinbad's side story.

If they can't achieve their goal of destroying the world, they're contained.

They nearly did it already; they were literally minutes away from the complete destruction of the world. Their leader was the current ruler of the empire... to call them contained is to be in denial. Kouen is in DEEP denial about how much contorl he has

Reim hasn't increased it's territory in over 200 years. What they have done is managed their own affairs and their relations with other countries. Joining an Alliance robs them of their ability to do that. They won't be able to conduct trade and dictate their foreign policy as they see fit. Self-determination is the corner-stone of Reim's national philosophy and being part of an Alliance of where some are more equal than others would rob them of that.

Riem just tried to conquer a country... Also only a couple of decades ago they gained territory from Partveria.

And while they might allow Sinbad to lead foreign relations they would still have self-determination within their borders. Kou would not only take their frogien relations away but also all domestic rights aswell. Not to mention that if the Seven seas alliance were to take over the world, there would not long BE any forgien relations... all matters of trade would be between all the member nations which typically every member has a say in

If he can't conquer Reim, then there is no problem.

Yes... y'know except for the bloody war that he is 100% certain to fight. Kouen is determine to conquer the world, and he WILL come for Riem. When Riem refuses to surrender, there WILL be war, because that is how the Kou empire operates... Well either that or they will use Al Theman to destory the country from the inside first to soften it before they go to war.

And yes, he did gift-wrap Balbaad. Kou grants a great deal of latitude to kingdoms and tribes that are cooperative with them. Balbaad was a special case since it was half ruined when they moved in.

No they don't. Kou's entire philosophy revolves around EVERYONE conforming to a single ideology. That's why they can't tolerate the Alliances ideal of everyone keeping their cultures and identities. Balbadd's transformation into another identical piece of the Kou Empire IS their plan in motion. They are forcing all of Balbadd to conform to their ideal culture

Most of the countries Sinbad brought into the Alliance were small and remote. And don't you think it's strange that for an Alliance composed of seven countries...only 5 were represented when the Medium was brought down? (Although Drakon may have represented Partveria, it's strange that Partveria doesn't have a king vessel of their own).

Small and remote? Based on what? We don't know many detials about most of those countries. They may not be as large as Kou or Riem, but that doesn't mean they were small... though we do know is that every one of them managed to ruled by a Dungeon conquerer

Politics makes strange bed fellows.

1.) Without the Kou Empire, Sindria would be free to conquer the world. This is something both En and Mu would like to prevent.

And as long as Kou is around, war is certain to happen since their entire plan is to force the entire world under their subjugation. Letting kou disappaer and simply making peace with Sindria would be more practical

2.) En will do what he has to save his country from a civil war. It's why he allowed Al Thamen to remain there in the first place, remember? Aside from using Al Thamen's strength to help conquer the world, getting rid of them would be self-destructive.

No, he just wants to exploit them as weapons. He stated clearly that he was ready to fight Al Theman as long as the rest fo the world surrenderred to him first. In other words he is more than ready to fight a civil war to exterminate Al Theman... the ONLY reason he doesn't want to do it now, is because he wants to use their power to force everyone else into submission and he would not be able to succeed in conquering the world due to the damage it would take to get rid of them

Because Sindria doesn't treat other countries as equals. Because Sinbad pressured Reim into joining a confederacy when it's spiritual leader was on her death bed. Because Reim does what it wants on it's own terms.

Sinbad did not pressure Reim to join him; Kou did. He made no threats to Riem... all he did was point to the Kou Empire and said, "Y'know, it would be a lot safer for both of us if we faced them together". Alliances are mutually beneficial like that. If the Kou empire was not warmongering then Reim would have had no reason to join sinbad and would have remained separate... and Sinbad would have allowed them. unlike Kou, Sinbad doesn't force countries to join him by flaunting his military might; he instead finds a way to convince them that joining his alliance is for their own benefit. People don't join sinbad unless they want too. And Reim wanted to join sinbad because they felt theatened by Kou.


FYI: I'm gonna be traveling so my responces might be greatly delayed. Depends on when I find internet

[Nicaea]

All I can say is that this chapter trumped the past 30-50 ones.

[Redhazard]

Kouen's situation with Al-Thamen is... complex.

Al-Thamen has been involved with Kou from the start.

Thanks to them, Kou has grown and prospered. In that time, Kouen went from son of the emperor's brother to first prince.

Instead of openly striking against them, Kouen chose to use them and it has paid off to a degree. Guy has three metal vessels and a household. In addition, he has four other metal vessel users working for him. Plus their households.

He has, at least, gathered enough power to be a threat to them. Whether he can truly control them like he thinks they can is another deal entirely.

Meanwhile, Hakuryuu went the opposite way. He refused to so much as tangentially benefit from Al-Thamen. The idea of using Al-Thamen doesn't factor into it, because he wants them gone.

Originally Posted by Bogart

And because the women from Kou are freakin' beautiful!

Damn right, they are.

[Breimoon]

we are not yet sure he has really killed them. They could just infiltrate the rebelling party and say that kou is al thamen itself and that they rebelled against them. After all we already know of the body swapping skills.The problem with these wars is that Aladin and Alibaba need all the possible metal vessel users and household members possible in the fight against Al thamen so getting sinbad alliance to kill 4 or 5 of them is going to be a great help to al thamen wheter they win or lose since all they care is summoning their father.

[ChampDream]

that was a good chapter, Judar really got strong.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Yes it is different. Sinbad isn't threatening anyone All sinbad did to get Riem to join him, was by outlying the mutual benefits. If Riem had refused his offer Sinbad would have done nothing to them. That is how alliances work. Kou on the otherhand, will use their military to force your subjugation if you do not give it willingly.

If it were that simple, Scherazade wouldn't have dragged her feet agreeing to a confederacy like she did. Mu's problem with Sinbad, that he's not someone that will treat others as equals readily is also quite evident. There is more to being a country, being a person, and the relationships with others than simply whether or not they will attack you.

Countries, just like people, have their pride.

Also worth mentioning again, Kou doesn't rely solely on military force.

Actually that is something i find strange. There is no answer in the manga why Balbadd did not join the seven seas alliance; this is something that will likely be answered in Sinbad's side story.

My feeling is that the king wanted to be a competitor and not subservient to Sinbad's trading company. Competing with someone is often more advantageous than joining them. Plus the fact that Balbaad had a long history and had never needed to rely on other countries before.

They nearly did it already; they were literally minutes away from the complete destruction of the world. Their leader was the current ruler of the empire... to call them contained is to be in denial. Kouen is in DEEP denial about how much contorl he has

That was not Al Thamen. That was Magnostadt. And you know, I think Aladdin is the last person to be demanding others drop what they're doing and rushing off to save the world when he dropped what he was doing (saving the world) and rushed off to save Magnostadt.

As for Kouen's ability to deal with Al Thamen, I really don't consider them to be a threat. Consider that Sheba was blind to her friends falling into depravity for decades. Al Thamen from Alma Toran had decades of prep-time for their bid to end the world while also having access to the advanced magics and resources of that world.

Basically all Kouen has to do is make sure a black spot isn't formed in Kou and that really doesn't seem like it'd be hard at all.

Riem just tried to conquer a country... Also only a couple of decades ago they gained territory from Partveria.

Point being Reim doesn't conquer countries because of a need to expand. Strategically they will take control, otherwise they're content to sit within their borders. Also worth pointing out that Magnostadt had it coming.

And while they might allow Sinbad to lead foreign relations they would still have self-determination within their borders. Kou would not only take their frogien relations away but also all domestic rights aswell. Not to mention that if the Seven seas alliance were to take over the world, there would not long BE any forgien relations... all matters of trade would be between all the member nations which typically every member has a say in

If Kou isn't a viable threat, it doesn't matter what they do, now does it?

Yes... y'know except for the bloody war that he is 100% certain to fight. Kouen is determine to conquer the world, and he WILL come for Riem. When Riem refuses to surrender, there WILL be war, because that is how the Kou empire operates... Well either that or they will use Al Theman to destory the country from the inside first to soften it before they go to war.

Kou won't make a move unless they can win easily. If Kou fights a civil war and loses Al Thamen's support, they will no longer be in a position to conquer Reim. Actually they'd probably be content to adopt Mu into their family by marrying one of their princesses to him. I mean, seriously, haven't you noticed that basically every time Kou engages in foreign policy with a country, Kou tries to marry Kougyoku off? It happened in Balbaad, it happened in Sindria, it happened in Balbaad AGAIN.

The one exception to this rule was when Hakuei inducted the Kouga tribe...and no one would complain about how she did that.

No they don't. Kou's entire philosophy revolves around EVERYONE conforming to a single ideology. That's why they can't tolerate the Alliances ideal of everyone keeping their cultures and identities. Balbadd's transformation into another identical piece of the Kou Empire IS their plan in motion. They are forcing all of Balbadd to conform to their ideal culture

Which is why the Kouga tribe retained their clan identity while wearing a very thin Kou veneer. No, seriously, Hakuei's entire household have custom armor based on the old Kouga-style with Kou decals.

Has anyone from Kou struck you as being a fanatic? Koumei is half-asleep most of the time, even while arguing with others. En prefers to keep things simple. Kouha has bandits, mutants, and exiles in his army.

Small and remote? Based on what? We don't know many detials about most of those countries. They may not be as large as Kou or Riem, but that doesn't mean they were small... though we do know is that every one of them managed to ruled by a Dungeon conquerer

There really isn't enough room on the world map for them to be large.

And as long as Kou is around, war is certain to happen since their entire plan is to force the entire world under their subjugation. Letting kou disappaer and simply making peace with Sindria would be more practical

Haven't you figured out by now that no one trusts Sinbad?

No, he just wants to exploit them as weapons. He stated clearly that he was ready to fight Al Theman as long as the rest fo the world surrenderred to him first. In other words he is more than ready to fight a civil war to exterminate Al Theman... the ONLY reason he doesn't want to do it now, is because he wants to use their power to force everyone else into submission and he would not be able to succeed in conquering the world due to the damage it would take to get rid of them

Sindria and Reim are as much a threat to Kou as any other. It's not just conquering the world. It's protecting Kou.

Sinbad did not pressure Reim to join him; Kou did. He made no threats to Riem... all he did was point to the Kou Empire and said, "Y'know, it would be a lot safer for both of us if we faced them together". Alliances are mutually beneficial like that. If the Kou empire was not warmongering then Reim would have had no reason to join sinbad and would have remained separate... and Sinbad would have allowed them. unlike Kou, Sinbad doesn't force countries to join him by flaunting his military might; he instead finds a way to convince them that joining his alliance is for their own benefit. People don't join sinbad unless they want too. And Reim wanted to join sinbad because they felt theatened by Kou.

He waits for countries to enter into a bad situation and then offers to help them, after which they don't know how to live without him.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by ChampDream

that was a good chapter, Judar really got strong.

You know what the best part of it is? He didn't Worf Effect anyone in the process. We actually have something to look forward to if we ever see him fight.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Bogart

En placed some kind of enchantment on Hakuryuu, though I wonder what it's nature was? Did it make him crazy or did it keep the crazy at bay? Phenex is a life Djinn that seems to specialize in healing, but that doesn't mean she can't do bad things. Did he help or hurt Hakuryuu?

It was placed on him so he wouldn't be able to kill Gyoukuen. We don't know the nature of it but it's probably some sort of restriction (either physical or psychological). He was able to kill Gyoukuen because Judar dispelled the enchantment with his new power.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It was placed on him so he wouldn't be able to kill Gyoukuen. We don't know the nature of it but it's probably some sort of restriction (either physical or psychological). He was able to kill Gyoukuen because Judar dispelled the enchantment with his new power.

But from the start, Hakuryuu was able to use his lifeforce even before he met Zagan. I think it really is just some spell that restrains his power

[dazo]

Originally Posted by Bogart

You know what the best part of it is? He didn't Worf Effect anyone in the process. We actually have something to look forward to if we ever see him fight.

...but they were just fireworks, man

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It was placed on him so he wouldn't be able to kill Gyoukuen. We don't know the nature of it but it's probably some sort of restriction (either physical or psychological). He was able to kill Gyoukuen because Judar dispelled the enchantment with his new power.

yep

i think that kouen place some class of psychological enchantment(or illusion thing/ sinbad- Kougyoku thing ) in Hakuryuu ,but i doubt that this enchantment was design to protect only Gyoukuen but all of the imperial family, it was very rare/dangerous to left a former king in the empire running wild, more if his family died in from of him(plus he was kicked from the thoner)

this make wonder if hakuei have something in her

and kouen do the same thing as sinbad these dude can be pals

[hawkeyesvn]

Oh come on! Does any of you really think Gyokuen-Arba is dead?. This is the bitch that not even a half power-Solomon and his Djinn can kill!. What Hakuryuu destroyed was probably just another high level fake body/doll of Al-Thamen.
Hakuryuu just did exactly what she need. By taking the capital, Haku just triggered a civil war that will lead to massive bloodshed, aka massive black rukh. The dimensional hole is still opened, they just need large amount of black rukh to invite Il Illahto descend.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

But from the start, Hakuryuu was able to use his lifeforce even before he met Zagan. I think it really is just some spell that restrains his power

He knew magoi manipulation, the same thing Alibaba learned in Reim, but I don't see how that would protect him from a Djinn's enchantment, whether physical or psychological.

Either way, it doesn't matter anymore, as Judar broke the spell.

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn

Oh come on! Does any of you really think Gyokuen-Arba is dead?. This is the bitch that not even a half power-Solomon and his Djinn can kill!. What Hakuryuu destroyed was probably just another high level fake body/doll of Al-Thamen.

I don't think anyone really thinks she is dead.

That said, for now Judar and Hakuryuu do have the stage; so speculating on what the deal is with them is fun.

Like, for example, whatever it is En did to Hakuryuu. Personally, I thought it was just manipulation, but upon reread what Alibaba theorizes is that En did something similar to what Sinbad did to Kougyoku.

It appears he was right.

[Nicaea]

I wonder what Hakuryuu's army look like.

[dazo]

"demon like " being + a lot of angry citizen/ex soldiers & lost forgotten generals

as Judar broke the spell.

the possibilities!

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

I wonder what Hakuryuu's army look like.

Probably somewhere between a black djinn and the plant monsters from Zagan's dungeon.

[ChampDream]

New chapter of Sinbad manga, it look like Drakon went to save his princess, I think what will happen if that she get kill and Drakon wake up his household powers because of it and go in a rampage.

Originally Posted by Nicaea

I wonder what Hakuryuu's army look like.

creepy plant monsters.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by ChampDream

New chapter of Sinbad manga, it look like Drakon went to save his princess, I think what will happen if that she get kill and Drakon wake up his household powers because of it and go in a rampage.

Serendine's character design is too damn good for her to not be a dungeon conqueror. Seriously "the spider princess"? With a nickname like that she's going to be shooting webbing and swinging around the palace before anyone knows it.

[Redhazard]

Okay so...

Spoiler for Spoiler stuff:

Took a look at the raws.

Turns out Hakuryuu's army actually has people in it. The general of the Right and general of the Left to boot.

Huh.

Color me surprised.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Redhazard

Okay so...

Spoiler for Spoiler stuff:

Took a look at the raws.

Turns out Hakuryuu's army actually has people in it. The general of the Right and general of the Left to boot.

Huh.

Color me surprised.

Spoiler for Mhm:

It's been less than 15 years since the 1st Emperor was killed. If the Left and Right Generals were loyal to him, they might support Hakuryuu, especially if he claims that the 2nd Emperor conspired with the 1st Emperor's queen to commit the murder. The 2nd Emperor might not have been involved at all, but Hakuryuu can easily lie about that.

As I said before, En won't allow Hakuryuu to be Emperor. Even if En didn't have his own plans, he thinks Hakuryuu is too full of anger.