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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-11, 12:15   Link #3601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forgottendiary View Post
Especially in ep 24 with the ships behind...epic.
Oh yeah, that was epic shit.
But i still think i prefer the hug-scene a bit more. It was just mutual understanding, comforting each other not just cause, but because there are like no barriers anymore and fhdsjkf, i'll get sappy if i go on. XD
But yeah, AxS definitely get the romance cake pieces. <3
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:20   Link #3602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
@justingstrife: Nice, you might wanna put them under a spoiler cut though. And i also think you are gonna get the ZOMG pity-card. Then again, epi 23 follows right to prove this wrong. {btw, i loved that scene, so emotional}
To hell with the Pity card. Time and time again, relationships have started, or blossomed under such circumstances in both stories, and in real life. It's human nature to try and relate to others, and for humans to bond closer. If anyone tries to use episode 23 to counter-act what happen in 22, they are a fool, and need to grow up. Harsh words, but relationships aren't like what you see in the movie Twilight.

Oh and if you didn't realize it incorrupts, Alto DEFINITELY kissed her in that scene I posted.
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:23   Link #3603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Oh yeah, that was epic shit.
But i still think i prefer the hug-scene a bit more. It was just mutual understanding, comforting each other not just cause, but because there are like no barriers anymore and fhdsjkf, i'll get sappy if i go on. XD
But yeah, AxS definitely get the romance cake pieces. <3
Oh gawd ;__; I remember watching it the first time I was sweating all over due to overexcitement. @__@ I was probably screaming too. XDDDD

Good times, good times.
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:32   Link #3604
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
To hell with the Pity card. Time and time again, relationships have started, or blossomed under such circumstances in both stories, and in real life. It's human nature to try and relate to others, and for humans to bond closer. If anyone tries to use episode 23 to counter-act what happen in 22, they are a fool, and need to grow up. Harsh words, but relationships aren't like what you see in the movie Twilight.

Oh and if you didn't realize it incorrupts, Alto DEFINITELY kissed her in that scene I posted.

XD You probably have MISSED the point of my post and that i am an {biased} Alto x Sheryl fan. XD
I just said that the "pity card" could be used from RxA shippers, cause this is all they got to counter this scene. I used the "epi 23+24" to counter that hypothetical use of card from them, proving that it was NOT pity up at that point.
And lawl, definitely kiss. And some certain zooms in some lady business parts in before the kiss could imply something more.

@forgotten: dammit, i missed the good days due to the fact that i was too hung up in Geass to watch another series up those days. Must have been epic win those days around the boards huh?
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:35   Link #3605
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Ahh didn't catch that. Sorry incorrupts. Just tired of all the Ranka shippers deny what happened in 22.
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:37   Link #3606
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post

@forgotten: dammit, i missed the good days due to the fact that i was too hung up in Geass to watch another series up those days. Must have been epic win those days around the boards huh?


Take what's been happening here the past few days...overdosed with a sea of morphine.
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:40   Link #3607
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Ahh didn't catch that. Sorry incorrupts. Just tired of all the Ranka shippers deny what happened in 22.

Oh no prob. Dammit, i was not on Macross-dose those days, cause one thing i hate, is people denying facts. That is hypocrisy and twisting things in your side and it is hafjdkhfd especially if the facts are in your face. I would have a say or two to some fans back then. :P

@forgotten: Ok i feel bad for missing the party. Hopefully the upcoming movie will make up for it. xD
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Old 2008-12-11, 12:48   Link #3608
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post

Oh no prob. Dammit, i was not on Macross-dose those days, cause one thing i hate, is people denying facts. That is hypocrisy and twisting things in your side and it is hafjdkhfd especially if the facts are in your face. I would have a say or two to some fans back then. :P

@forgotten: Ok i feel bad for missing the party. Hopefully the upcoming movie will make up for it. xD
If we're lucky, we'll get a few rounds of screen cap bombing from the movie too just to show frame by frame what is already so obvious.

Anyways, I am off to zzz nao. XDD ttyl~
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:11   Link #3609
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Relax lol, I'm not denying anything, I'm just interpreting my way of looking at things instead of looking at one side of everything. Yes I know Sheryl and Alto have had their moments, but you can't really say that Alto actually kissed her in that scene for the simple fact it wasn't a close up. That's just what you see, and as for the whole triangle, I just hope it gets resolved in the movie or if they make a second season or some type of direct sequel with this cast. Whether it be with Sheryl or Ranka, I just need some closure lol
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:16   Link #3610
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Relax lol, I'm not denying anything, I'm just interpreting my way of looking at things instead of looking at one side of everything. Yes I know Sheryl and Alto have had their moments, but you can't really say that Alto actually kissed her in that scene for the simple fact it wasn't a close up. That's just what you see, and as for the whole triangle, I just hope it gets resolved in the movie or if they make a second season or some type of direct sequel with this cast. Whether it be with Sheryl or Ranka, I just need some closure lol
Ah ok, so he turned his face a bit left and more close to her to see her better. Yah, got it. // and this you CAN see and NOT imply as the camera fades out ~
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:41   Link #3611
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Ah ok, so he turned his face a bit left and more close to her to see her better. Yah, got it. // and this you CAN see and NOT imply as the camera fades out ~
How can you imply that they really kissed though, relax man. They could have kissed or they couldn't, to each their own. I'm simply saying that it's not a fact that they kissed considering that every time they did, it was pretty much there. Camera work says a lot about a situation and even if they did kiss, it's pretty hard to make sure they did. I saw him wiping her tears, as for a kiss, well that's debatable.
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:46   Link #3612
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How can you imply that they really kissed though, relax man. They could have kissed or they couldn't, to each their own. I'm simply saying that it's not a fact that they kissed considering that every time they did, it was pretty much there. Camera work says a lot about a situation and even if they did kiss, it's pretty hard to make sure they did. I saw him wiping her tears, as for a kiss, well that's debatable.
Dude, there is no implying in this scene. If you deny the facts, your problem. Oh and just FYI, the way the camera zooms out from the scene implies a HELL lot more than just a kiss. In a lot of shows/series/etc this cam-zoom-out technique applies exactly for scenes like this.
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:49   Link #3613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Dude, there is no implying in this scene. If you deny the facts, your problem. Oh and just FYI, the way the camera zooms out from the scene implies a HELL lot more than just a kiss. In a lot of shows/series/etc this cam-zoom-out technique applies exactly for scenes like this.
Yes I know the camera doing that can mean a lot but like I said before, you can't state it a fact because you didn't write the script just like how I can't state the fact that they didn't kiss. It's just how it is, what I'm trying to say is it's not a [B]fact[B]. You keep claiming it, but again you didn't write the script and you can't say for sure that it was a kiss or not.
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:56   Link #3614
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At least he wasn' t aversed to be kissed.

Yes, I remember the scene too and I was able to see the last millisecs, that Sheryls head moved toward Alto. If there was more. Hmm ... let's pretend this is their privacy Ah yes. I think this has not been commented by SK just to keep the audience blabbering as we do know.

But still one of the most romantic scene of the series together with episode 23 although for me the most "romantic" scene was the vibrating cell phone in the locker.
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:57   Link #3615
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post

But still one of the most romantic scene of the series although for me the most "romantic" scene was the vibrating cell phone in the locker.
I would define this as "sexy-tease" scene. Man, poor Alto.
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:58   Link #3616
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But still one of the most romantic scene of the series although for me the most "romantic" scene was the vibrating cell phone in the locker.
Yeah, that's AMORE!!!
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Old 2008-12-11, 14:10   Link #3617
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regarding the cell phone... wasn't it Ranka who called? TRIANGLER!!!
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Old 2008-12-11, 14:13   Link #3618
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regarding the cell phone... wasn't it Ranka who called? TRIANGLER!!!
More like MEDDLER. rofl
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Old 2008-12-11, 15:09   Link #3619
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One of the difficult parts of interpreting Alto's character is that he doesn't get in touch with his emotions until late in the series. As such, when he's suddenly forced to confront his feelings regarding his father or his friends, he's thrown off balance.

The central problem that Alto faces has nothing to do with romance; it has to do with the question of his identity. His insecurity as a pilot comes from the fact that he has to prove to himself and others that he has a genuine reason to pilot (rather than simply as a means of rebelling against his father).

Alto's failed stunt during episode one becomes a symbol of that insecurity: through his need to prove himself, and his inability to do so. In contrast, his rescue of Ranka symbolizes the opposite, by proving that he is needed as a pilot.

This sets the stage for Alto's relationships with the girls. Through his interactions with Sheryl, Alto is forced to confront his insecurities; an example of this can be found in Sheryl's decision to enroll in flight school in episode nine (since he didn't have any more of a "reason" to join than she did).

This influence is seen throughout the early stages of their interactions. While he admires Sheryl's ability to define herself on her own terms, he's also unable to overcome his own insecurities to reach that state, leading to tension between the two of them.

With Ranka, Alto finds validation of his role as a "pilot", by acting as her protector. It's interesting to note that the manner in which Alto watches over Ranka from a distance in episodes one and five (the Folmo reference fits in here) is not unlike Brera late in the series, after ursurping Alto's function as Ranka's protector. This is apparent in Alto's choice of words in episode four, as well; by referring to his "obligation" to go to the Miss Macross concert, he shows that he takes his role as Ranka's protector very seriously.

Episode ten brings about an interesting development. In that episode, we have Alto playing the role of a pilot, and Ranka playing the role of a singer. These roles, as well as the underlying romance between them, serve to construct Alto and Ranka's identities as "pilot" and "singer".

This is important because it marks the point at which Alto and Ranka's professional and personal desires become blurred. At this point, Ranka starts to associates her ambitions for success as a means to win Alto's affections. Meanwhile, Alto associates his relationship with Ranka as a means of validating his position as pilot. This creates a certain amount of romantic tension between the two, as they both enter a relationship that both of them, for different reasons, are not truly committed to.

Alto's rivalry with Brera is likewise centred on his role as Ranka's protector, rather than his relationship with her. Their conflicts are not based on Brera's interactions with Ranka, but rather on his existance as a bodyguard. Once again, this forces Alto to confront his insecurities about why he is piloting in the first place: if he's not needed to protect Ranka, then what is his justification for piloting?

The turning point lies in episode nineteen, where Alto overcomes his insecurity about his piloting by revisiting the stunt show from episode one. This step, along with his showdown with Ozma, is vital because it establishes that he doesn't need to prove anything to be a pilot: he is a pilot. Alto's identity as a pilot ceases to construct him.

It's really only from this point in the story onwards that we can start talking about Alto's relationships at an emotional level. His father is no longer an oppressive symbol of the past; Alto sees that his father is just a man (with Alto's reference to how small he suddenly looked). Likewise, Sheryl is no longer a constant reminder of his weakness as a pilot; she's a woman (one whom finds that he likes, at that), with strengths and weaknesses not unlike his own. In short, he stops thinking of them in terms of symbols, and starts relating to them as people.

The focal point in all this isn't about Alto's "choice". Both girls illustrate stages in his maturation; one by drawing out his desire to define himself by conforming to an identity (that of a pilot), and the other by granting him the freedom to live as he is (his identity conforms to him). In so doing, both play an important role in his growth (one might even say that they acted as his wings, throughout the story ).

Everything else, including the romance, is fairly straightforward after that point.
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Old 2008-12-11, 15:25   Link #3620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
One of the difficult parts of interpreting Alto's character is that he doesn't get in touch with his emotions until late in the series. As such, when he's suddenly forced to confront his feelings regarding his father or his friends, he's thrown off balance.

The central problem that Alto faces has nothing to do with romance; it has to do with the question of his identity. His insecurity as a pilot comes from the fact that he has to prove to himself and others that he has a genuine reason to pilot (rather than simply as a means of rebelling against his father).

Alto's failed stunt during episode one becomes a symbol of that insecurity: through his need to prove himself, and his inability to do so. In contrast, his rescue of Ranka symbolizes the opposite, by proving that he is needed as a pilot.

This sets the stage for Alto's relationships with the girls. Through his interactions with Sheryl, Alto is forced to confront his insecurities; an example of this can be found in Sheryl's decision to enroll in flight school in episode nine (since he didn't have any more of a "reason" to join than she did).

This influence is seen throughout the early stages of their interactions. While he admires Sheryl's ability to define herself on her own terms, he's also unable to overcome his own insecurities to reach that state, leading to tension between the two of them.

With Ranka, Alto finds validation of his role as a "pilot", by acting as her protector. It's interesting to note that the manner in which Alto watches over Ranka from a distance in episodes one and five (the Folmo reference fits in here) is not unlike Brera late in the series, after ursurping Alto's function as Ranka's protector. This is apparent in Alto's choice of words in episode four, as well; by referring to his "obligation" to go to the Miss Macross concert, he shows that he takes his role as Ranka's protector very seriously.

Episode ten brings about an interesting development. In that episode, we have Alto playing the role of a pilot, and Ranka playing the role of a singer. These roles, as well as the underlying romance between them, serve to construct Alto and Ranka's identities as "pilot" and "singer".

This is important because it marks the point at which Alto and Ranka's professional and personal desires become blurred. At this point, Ranka starts to associates her ambitions for success as a means to win Alto's affections. Meanwhile, Alto associates his relationship with Ranka as a means of validating his position as pilot. This creates a certain amount of romantic tension between the two, as they both enter a relationship that both of them, for different reasons, are not truly committed to.

Alto's rivalry with Brera is likewise centred on his role as Ranka's protector, rather than his relationship with her. Their conflicts are not based on Brera's interactions with Ranka, but rather on his existance as a bodyguard. Once again, this forces Alto to confront his insecurities about why he is piloting in the first place: if he's not needed to protect Ranka, then what is his justification for piloting?

The turning point lies in episode nineteen, where Alto overcomes his insecurity about his piloting by revisiting the stunt show from episode one. This step, along with his showdown with Ozma, is vital because it establishes that he doesn't need to prove anything to be a pilot: he is a pilot. Alto's identity as a pilot ceases to construct him.

It's really only from this point in the story onwards that we can start talking about Alto's relationships at an emotional level. His father is no longer an oppressive symbol of the past; Alto sees that his father is just a man (with Alto's reference to how small he suddenly looked). Likewise, Sheryl is no longer a constant reminder of his weakness as a pilot; she's a woman (one whom finds that he likes, at that), with strengths and weaknesses not unlike his own. In short, he stops thinking of them in terms of symbols, and starts relating to them as people.

The focal point in all this isn't about Alto's "choice". Both girls illustrate stages in his maturation; one by drawing out his desire to define himself by conforming to an identity (that of a pilot), and the other by granting him the freedom to live as he is (his identity conforms to him). In so doing, both play an important role in his growth (one might even say that they acted as his wings, throughout the story ).

Everything else, including the romance, is fairly straightforward after that point.
Agreed, I really can't deny anything you've said in your opinion because you've pretty much backed up everything you said and it's rational. I understand everything that you've said and I respect every word, I just want to see some closure in the romance department because like you said, all 25 episodes of Macross Frontier really just focused on identifying each character while the romance side is left undecided.
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