Medaka Box [Manga]

[ccie20012]

@Sol Falling
Kiss-shot Heart-under-blade and Medaka is very different. Medaka (especially in the last arc) is the archetype/stereotype fool in love MC. The power here is not to blame. Kiss-shot looks very feminine/kawai/moe (behaves like a normal girl). Therefore she beloved by fans.

Not necessarily be both protagonist and a fool in love. It's only Nishino choice.
As example very different character: Hakaze Kusaribe from Zetsuen no Tempest.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

As I said, the 'fanbase' you are talking about is limited to the shounen-kiddies who primarily only read Jump manga. On the western side, in terms of exposure to Nishio even people who have more breadth in their tastes have probably only been exposed to the *Monogatari series. Fundamentally most of these people would be lacking the background/perspective necessary to understand the actual intentions of Medaka Box's narrative.

I don't disagree that the way Nishio situated Medaka and Zenkichi within the story might have been an intentional troll, though. Not to say that he wanted for Medaka to be disliked, but that he intended to make the story frustrating for anybody who expected Zenkichi to act/have a position like any traditional shounen protagonist. Despite the fact that Ajimu offered and Zenkichi explicitly declined the chance at such a position, this is seemingly still what many Zenkichi fans are looking for, which is the root of why they hate Medaka.

TBF the mere fact he situated it in such a point that'd it'd be frustrating for anyone wanting a MC change would have to mean he situated it in the point where the protagonist is that unliked. Typically protagonists aren't that unliked. Sure it's far from uncommon for them not to be always ranked first in a popularity poll but I can't really think of an instance in a popular shounen where the main protagonist has ranked lower than 3 though there's probably some harems of which i haven't seen the polls where the MC is probably ranked lower. Sad thing is we don't even know if Medaka ranked 4th all we know is that the maximum is 4th.

Typically MC changes don't occur unless the protagonist is killed (or some equivalent e.g sealed) or they weren't the main protagonist in the first place. Either that or it's a character completely not revealed until that point in time, Rarely does an author imply a protagonist change inside the group itself unless it was obvious the current MC was simply a proxy.

In regards to Medaka's overall popularity, the only people that'd bother to vote in a popularity poll are hard core fans, most of the readerbase doesn't care enough to bother like in any poll. So saying only random kids, that occasional read Medaka box vote in the poll rings false, Medaka box never really was popular amongst that fanbase to begin with, why would they be voting in that poll. By all metrics we have Medaka is currently a very unpopular character, it's probably due to a mixture of Nisio not designing her to be particularily popular (though obviously still to be popular popular), and readers getting sick of her character which would explain her consistent decrease in popularity.

[Wolfenstein]

Why do you act as if it's only fans of one character who don't enjoy her spotlight?

As far as I've garnered from observation, it's because she's focused on too much when nearly every character around her is better or more interesting. Pretty much the reason to dislike the character.
Normally, in most series, this isn't a problem, because usually, the protagonist is the most interesting/relatable to the majority.

Yet, that's clearly not the case. Medaka in Japan dosen't even surpass Akune, Zen or Misogi(not that she ever did) anymore, all three supporting/side characters, in likeability. And whoooo. Internationally, she's doing much worse. Heck I even think a recent poll or something had Naze as the most famous girl in...something. I can't recall. Maybe someone can pick that up.

And I think that's kind of the effect Nishio wanted to create.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by ccie20012

@Sol Falling
Kiss-shot Heart-under-blade and Medaka is very different. Medaka (especially in the last arc) is the archetype/stereotype fool in love MC. The power here is not to blame. Kiss-shot looks very feminine/kawai/moe (behaves like a normal girl). Therefore she beloved by fans.

Not necessarily be both protagonist and a fool in love. It's only Nishino choice.
As example very different character: Hakaze Kusaribe from Zetsuen no Tempest.

That's basically part of what I meant when I said Medaka is "more flawed and human". However, none of that has anything to do with why Medaka is hated by large parts of the western fandom, which was the point of the conversation.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

That's basically part of what I meant when I said Medaka is "more flawed and human". However, none of that has anything to do with why Medaka is hated by large parts of the western fandom, which was the point of the conversation.

And Japanese fanbase unless your going to assume a demographic that doesn't care about the manga voted in majority on the manga's popularity poll. Which generally doesn't happen very often in statistics.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Nisio not designing her to be particularily popular (though obviously still to be popular popular)

At the very least, one must recognize, it's doubtful that Nishio intended her to be more likeable/interesting than her side's.

Which is kinda the core point of what I was getting at.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

At the very least, one must recognize, it's doubtful that Nishio intended her to be more likeable/interesting than her side's.

Which is kinda the core point of what I was getting at.

I think at the very least that was certainly the case during, the election arc, most of that was spent showing her in a negative manner though obviously "redeemed" by the arc finale it didn't really alter the effect it had on the reader. That and the fact her character didn't really change too much after the whole ordeal.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I think at the very least that was certainly the case during, the election arc, most of that was spent showing her in a negative manner though obviously "redeemed" by the arc finale it didn't really alter the effect it had on the reader. That and the fact her character didn't really change too much after the whole ordeal.

Indeed.

I feel as though that's what generally happened.

I mean...let me give you an example.

Spoiler:

* End of the JBWF.

Ajimu just got released from her seal, and she was actually serious for once.

I was all like

"Oh, shit! I can't believe it! Ajimu's actually going to become the hero of an arc? This is just too good! What an unbelievable troll!"

And instead...we got...the same old same old.

In one incredibly dragged-out sequence of Medaka trumps everyone, Medaka style.

I waggle my fist up to the sky and wail: "Nishio!!!!"

/troll

Yeah, needless to say, I wouldn't have minded the first troll, cause that shit would've been cool.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

TBF the mere fact he situated it in such a point that'd it'd be frustrating for anyone wanting a MC change would have to mean he situated it in the point where the protagonist is that unliked. Typically protagonists aren't that unliked. Sure it's far from uncommon for them not to be always ranked first in a popularity poll but I can't really think of an instance in a popular shounen where the main protagonist has ranked lower than 3 though there's probably some harems of which i haven't seen the polls where the MC is probably ranked lower. Sad thing is we don't even know if Medaka ranked 4th all we know is that the maximum is 4th.

Typically MC changes don't occur unless the protagonist is killed (or some equivalent e.g seasled) or they weren't the main protagonist in the first place. Either that or it's a character completely not revealed until that point in time, Rarely does an author imply a protagonst change inside the group itself unless it was obvious the current MC was simply a proxy.

Don't really know where you're getting all these generalizations. Can you bring up an example of another manga which has a protagonist change in the sense that you are talking about Medaka Box?

In regards to Medaka's overall popularity, the only people that'd bother to vote in a popularity poll are hard core fans, most of the readerbase doesn't care enough to bother like in any poll. So saying only random kids, that occasional read Medaka box vote in the poll rings false, Medaka box never really was popular amongst that fanbase to begin with, why would they be voting in that poll. By all metrics we have Medaka is currently a very unpopular character, it's probably due to a mixture of Nisio not designing her to be particularily popular (though obviously still to be popular popular), and readers getting sick of her character which would explain her consistent decrease in popularity.

The core fans I talked about might vote in the character popularity poll, but I doubt they'd vote in the weekly rankings. That contradicts the fact that Medaka Box's volume sales never matched up with its rankings in the first place.

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Why do you act as if it's only fans of one character who don't enjoy her spotlight?

As far as I've garnered from observation, it's because she's focused on too much when nearly every character around her is better or more interesting. Pretty much the reason to dislike the character.
Normally, in most series, this isn't a problem, because usually, the protagonist is the most interesting/relatable to the majority.

Yet, that's clearly not the case. Medaka in Japan dosen't even surpass Akune, Zen or Misogi(not that she ever did) anymore, all three supporting/side characters, in likeability. And whoooo. Internationally, she's doing much worse. Heck I even think a recent poll or something had Naze as the most famous girl in...something. I can't recall. Maybe someone can pick that up.

And I think that's kind of the effect Nishio wanted to create.

There is no such thing as 'side-character fans' who just like every character except Medaka. There are basically only three characters in Medaka Box who are eligible to receive any consistently large amount of focus, and they are Medaka, Zenkichi, and Kumagawa. If people are complaining about Medaka's screentime, then they are either Zenkichi fans or Kumagawa fans foremost, else they wouldn't be able to justify keeping up with the manga in the first place. By contrast, the smaller group who are not fans of any character and just have a general interest in Medaka Box would have no reason to hate Medaka at the exclusion of others because her character development is perfectly sufficient and legitimate to justify her position in the story.

(There might be a minor faction who could legitimately say that they have been reading (recently) for Ajimu, but that is only on account of the focus she's recieved due to the recentness of her introduction/character arc. Ultimately Ajimu has never been a main character on the level of Medaka, Kumagawa, or Zenkichi.)

(The Naze case is a similar situation, that was Biglobe poll about people's favourite anime character where she had focus. There's nobody who actually reads Medaka Box just for Naze.)

Akune's placement on the character poll was on account of fujoshi who were fans of Akune's voice actor in the anime. Meanwhile Zenkichi got bumped up (about ~300) because he recently had a major arc and, as I said, he holds greater appeal for the standard Shounen Jump audience. As for the poll overall, however, the overall drop of something like 3000 votes indicated a strong decline in the popularity of Medaka Box in general amongst the core Nishio audience. This would explain the drop in Medaka's placement (from ~900 to where she is now, wherever that might be) given what I explained above, in the same way that Kumagawa (who can be assumed to still be the most popular amongst the core audience) had a gigantic drop of 1000 in his vote total, despite still being first.

Likely none of this was particularly planned by Nishio, particularly the thing about Akune. Although certainly, with regards to that specific period in the manga (Not Equals arc), you could make the argument that for a time Medaka was deliberately made to be unlikeable, but then there is a clear contrast of her characterization there with everything afterwards.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Indeed.

I feel as though that's what generally happened.

I mean...let me give you an example.

Spoiler:

* End of the JBWF.

Ajimu just got released from her seal, and she was actually serious for once.

I was all like

"Oh, shit! I can't believe it! Ajimu's actually going to become the hero of an arc? This is just too good! What an unbelievable troll!"

And instead...we got...the same old same old.

In one incredibly dragged-out sequence of Medaka trumps everyone, Medaka style.

I waggle my fist up to the sky and wail: "Nishio!!!!"

/troll

Yeah, needless to say, I wouldn't have minded the first troll, cause that shit would've been cool.

I think my issue wa it was pretty much Aijimu wins total victory, next chapter Medaka convinces a godlike existence in the space of a chapter that her theory was wrong (when in fact she was right...). Despite the fact this whole arc was supposed to decronstructive how much of a horrible Mary Sue she is. And I'm just supposed to accept that?

Why what kinda moron you supposed to me for (and I'd guess Nisio expected that reaction or at least I hope he did there's no way a decent proportion of the readerbase wouldn't).

I think the worst thing was that in the preceedng arc it had all his hype on focusing on a fresh set of more minor characters in a serious arc, they all get trolled and we spend the rest of the arc watching Medaka win predictably the final "fight" with no real help.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Don't really know where you're getting all these generalizations. Can you bring up any example of another manga which has a protagonist change in the sense that you are talking about Medaka Box?



The core fans I talked about might vote in the character popularity poll, but I doubt they'd vote in the weekly rankings. That contradicts the fact that Medaka Box's volume sales never matched up with its rankings in the first place.

Of course they don't that doesn't have anything to do with the popularity discussion at hand, since that's about the entire manga rather than specific characters.

Also I wasn't talking about manga's in MB position I'm saying MB's position is rare as most other implied or actual MC change don't occur that why, though typically The current MC is popular anyway, which is why people generally don't like MC changes. Though I could probably see a MC change to any character that isn't Medaka and is reasonably popular recieved warmly (though this is an opinion nota fact I obviously have no idea but that's the sense I'm getting).

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Of course they don't that doesn't have anything to do with the popularity discussion at hand, since that's about the entire manga rather than specific characters.

Also I wasn't talking about manga's in MB position I'm saying MB's position is rare as most other implied or actual MC change don't occur that why, though typically The current MC is popular anyway, which is why people generally don't like MC changes. Though I could probably see a MC change to any character that isn't Medaka and is reasonably popular recieved warmly (though this is an opinion nota fact I obviously have no idea but that's the sense I'm getting).

All I can say about that is I think it'd be a lot more controversial over in Japan than over here.

I think my issue wa it was pretty much Aijimu wins total victory, next chapter Medaka convinces a godlike existence in the space of a chapter that her theory was wrong (when in fact she was right...). Despite the fact this whole arc was supposed to decronstructive how much of a horrible Mary Sue she is. And I'm just supposed to accept that?

Why what kinda moron you supposed to me for (and I'd guess Nisio expected that reaction or at least I hope he did there's no way a decent proportion of the readerbase wouldn't).

I think the worst thing was that in the preceedng arc it had all his hype on focusing on a fresh set of more minor characters in a serious arc, they all get trolled and we spend the rest of the arc watching Medaka win predictably the final "fight" with no real help.

Wasn't part of this conversation so I'm just offering my opinion here, but I think the point of Medaka convincing Ajimu not to commit suicide and to continue living was moreso to make a thematic point (i.e. that no matter how much you despair, it's hard to want to give up living) than to paint Medaka as a Mary Sue. It was just another instance in Nishio's overall theme of humanizing 'monstrous' or 'inhuman' characters, as all Ajimu wanted was a chance to live like everyone else.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

There is no such thing as 'side-character fans' who just like every character except Medaka. There are basically only three characters in Medaka Box who are eligible to receive any consistently large amount of focus, and they are Medaka, Zenkichi, and Kumagawa. If people are complaining about Medaka's screentime, then they are either Zenkichi fans or Kumagawa fans foremost, else they wouldn't be able to justify keeping up with the manga in the first place. By contrast, the smaller group who are not fans of any character and just have a general interest in Medaka Box would have no reason to hate Medaka at the exclusion of others because her character development is perfectly sufficient and legitimate to justify her position in the story.

That's not it.

It's the fact that even people who aren't hardcore Zenkichi or Kumagawa fans have become sick of the character, hence her apparent unpopularity, but that dosen't change the fact that hardcore Zen/kuma fans like myself also have acquired such distaste.

She just has that effect on alot of people. Her personality is only really tolerable in small doses, so when she's focused on, there is a general dislike from the fanbase, because, let's be honest here, that time could be used on better characters.

Is that what happens with Zen and Kuma's spotlight?

Sure, but fortunately, they definitely don't produce the same effect as Medaka. Don't ask me how, but the effect is there.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

(There might be a minor faction who could legitimately say that they have been reading (recently) for Ajimu, but that is only on account of the focus she's recieved due to the recentness of her introduction/character arc. Ultimately Ajimu has never been a main character on the level of Medaka, Kumagawa, or Zenkichi.)

(The Naze case is a similar situation, that was Biglobe poll about people's favourite anime character where she had focus. There's nobody who actually reads Medaka Box just for Naze.)

It's kinda naive to say that someone is not going to mind their favorite character getting little spotlight, wouldn't you say? One of Medaka Box's strenghts has always been in it's side-characters, and Nishio has tried to temper them as much as possible. People might get dissapointed when their expectations don't meet.
Maybe I've misworded, but the fact that such favorites get shafted like that is a pretty big reason for someone to dislike the protagonist.

Why does Zen's and Kuma's spotlight not produce the same effect?

Well, that's anyone's guess. Maybe they're just more popular in general than you'd think.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Likely none of this was particularly planned by Nishio, particularly the thing about Akune. Although certainly, with regards to that specific period in the manga (Not Equals arc), you could make the argument that for a time Medaka was deliberately made to be unlikeable, but then there is a clear contrast of her characterization there with everything afterwards.

This is also a big part of the problem.

Because, to be honest, if people can't really feel for the character's plight, they're not going to like him/her, and that seems to be somewhat what happened to Medaka's.

All as planned, right?

I doubt Nishio couldn't make his mainstream audience like the Medaka character if he wanted to.

Originally Posted by Tenchi

I think my issue wa it was pretty much Aijimu wins total victory, next chapter Medaka convinces a godlike existence in the space of a chapter that her theory was wrong (when in fact she was right...). Despite the fact this whole arc was supposed to decronstructive how much of a horrible Mary Sue she is. And I'm just supposed to accept that?

Why what kinda moron you supposed to me for (and I'd guess Nisio expected that reaction or at least I hope he did there's no way a decent proportion of the readerbase wouldn't).

I think the worst thing was that in the preceedng arc it had all his hype on focusing on a fresh set of more minor characters in a serious arc, they all get trolled and we spend the rest of the arc watching Medaka win predictably the final "fight" with no real help.

Never really thought of it that way, but I suppose you have a point.

[kenjtr]

Its really funny how medaka always steal zenkichis spotlight lol she just cant handle zenkichi being higher then him

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I think my issue wa it was pretty much Aijimu wins total victory, next chapter Medaka convinces a godlike existence in the space of a chapter that her theory was wrong (when in fact she was right...). Despite the fact this whole arc was supposed to decronstructive how much of a horrible Mary Sue she is. And I'm just supposed to accept that?

Why what kinda moron you supposed to me for (and I'd guess Nisio expected that reaction or at least I hope he did there's no way a decent proportion of the readerbase wouldn't).

I'm pretty sure you missed the point of that. Firstly, Ajimu wasn't right, at least not from the perspective of the characters in Medaka Box. Obviously we readers know they're really in a manga but the characters don't, that was kinda the point. As for stopping her, it had to be Medaka, since she was the only one fast enough to reach her, and she was the only one that figured Ajimu out, since she was practically the only one Ajimu hadn't completely bamboozeled.

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

That's not it.

It's the fact that even people who aren't hardcore Zenkichi or Kumagawa fans have become sick of the character, hence her apparent unpopularity, but that dosen't change the fact that hardcore Zen/kuma fans like myself also have acquired such distaste.

She just has that effect on alot of people. Her personality is only really tolerable in small doses, so when she's focused on, there is a general dislike from the fanbase, because, let's be honest here, that time could be used on better characters.

You keep coming out with the idea that there is some huge amount of Medaka haters out there, when it's really just a vocal minority.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

That's not it.

It's the fact that even people who aren't hardcore Zenkichi or Kumagawa fans have become sick of the character, hence her apparent unpopularity, but that dosen't change the fact that hardcore Zen/kuma fans like myself also have acquired such distaste.

I don't really see that? Are there any actual Medaka Box fans who do not like at least one of Medaka, Zenkichi, or Kumagawa?

She just has that effect on alot of people. Her personality is only really tolerable in small doses, so when she's focused on, there is a general dislike from the fanbase, because, let's be honest here, that time could be used on better characters.

It seems rather more like some people just can't stand any Medaka at all. In which case my feelings are that it is obvious they're approaching Medaka Box improperly.

Is that what happens with Zen and Kuma's spotlight?

Sure, but fortunately, they definitely don't produce the same effect as Medaka. Don't ask me how, but the effect is there.

If you don't have any actual plausible explanation for why Zenkichi and Kumagawa's screentime would be treated differently, I can't really take that claim seriously, because I haven't seen anything aside from circumstantial evidence (you saying there are people who feel that way).

It's kinda naive to say that someone is not going to mind their favorite character getting little spotlight, wouldn't you say? One of Medaka Box's strenghts has always been in it's side-characters, and Nishio has tried to temper them as much as possible. People might get dissapointed when their expectations don't meet.
Maybe I've misworded, but the fact that such favorites get shafted like that is a pretty big reason for someone to dislike the protagonist.

Why does Zen's and Kuma's spotlight not produce the same effect?

Well, that's anyone's guess. Maybe they're just more popular in general than you'd think.

Certainly, there are people like Koga fans, or Nabeshima or Unzen fans, who wish some characters would get more screentime. However, I don't really see how that translates into hate for Medaka or any other character. Certainly I've never witnessed anybody expressing this line of reasoning myself. Generally the only type of fan who I've seen have a significant problem with Medaka's screentime are only Zenkichi fans.

If you're a Zenkichi fan and not a Medaka fan, then obviously you're going to want Zenkichi to displace her. That's simple bias, not anything inherently wrong about Medaka's character.

Solely Kumagawa fans are less likely to make a fuss because 1 - they've decreased in number, since despite still being a major character he's ultimately third behind Medaka and Zenkichi in terms of importance to the storyline; and 2 - over in Japan, there's a lot of Kumagawa-exclusive material like the LNs and audio dramas with him as a main character.

This is also a big part of the problem.

Because, to be honest, if people can't really feel for the character's plight, they're not going to like him/her, and that seems to be somewhat what happened to Medaka's.

All as planned, right?

I doubt Nishio couldn't make his mainstream audience like the Medaka character if he wanted to.

I doubt that Medaka is actually as unpopular over in Japan as the western fanbase keeps thinking she is. While she is probably not a huge draw for fandom to read the manga, she is probably no less than Zenkichi is, given that Zenkichi's numbers in the third popularity poll still did not even match up to Medaka's in the second.

Nishio uses Kumagawa for the popularity, and Medaka for the actual storytelling. It's not like you write a story just for popularity, you do it to express things which you want to communicate personally, and for the record I feel like Medaka Box is actually the most direct and fascinating exploration of Nishio's usual themes of "genius", "ability", and "humanity" of any of his works I've read thus far (admittedly limited to just stuff which has been translated into English, though).

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I'm pretty sure you missed the point of that. Firstly, Ajimu wasn't right, at least not from the perspective of the characters in Medaka Box. Obviously we readers know they're really in a manga but the characters don't, that was kinda the point. As for stopping her, it had to be Medaka, since she was the only one fast enough to reach her, and she was the only one that figured Ajimu out, since she was practically the only one Ajimu hadn't completely bamboozeled.

Your also ignoring that Aijimu existed before the creation of the universe and had attempting to disprove this fact almost the entire time, so it doesn't matter what they think. It's like taking the answer of a 2 year old over a 40 year old man and then multiply it by an insane degree. It doesn't make any sense. Also issue of dispelling a belief someone has held (and tried to disprove) for several thousand years/millions in a min is moronic. i'm sorry but it's one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. And there's no logi youc use can use to make it sound logical, because it isn't. Even if Aijimu was deluding herself in fantasy, for her to have held it for that long means that logical reasoning would reach her in that space of time anyway. It's hard enough to make someone part with a belief they've had for a few mins let alone thousands of years. And the logic Medaka provides wuld be nothing to the logic Aijimu already has. (She has met and fought MC before).

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Your also ignoring that Aijimu existed before the creation of the universe and had attempting to disprove this fact almost the entire time, so it doesn't matter what they think. It's like taking the answer of a 2 year old over a 40 year old man and then multiply it by an insane degree. It doesn't make any sense. Also issue of dispelling a belief someone has held (and tried to disprove) for several thousand years/millions in a min is moronic. i'm sorry but it's one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. And there's no logi youc use can use to make it sound logical, because it isn't. Even if Aijimu was deluding herself in fantasy, for her to have held it for that long means that logical reasoning would reach her in that space of time anyway. It's hard enough to make someone part with a belief they've had for a few mins let alone thousands of years. And the logic Medaka provides wuld be nothing to the logic Aijimu already has. (She has met and fought MC before).

I agree with this. Which is why I say that the point of the climax to the Not Equals arc is not really about who is right (which Ajimu obviously is, IMO) but about what Ajimu actually wanted. Remember, Ajimu even initially intended/wanted for her plan to fail. She simply gave up because she thought she had no chance of living in a world which didn't bend over for her. Medaka promising Ajimu that she wouldn't let Ajimu die simply gave Ajimu some of the grounding she needed, a minor spark of hope to convince her that she had a reason to continue living, which she wanted to do in the first place.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You keep coming out with the idea that there is some huge amount of Medaka haters out there, when it's really just a vocal minority.

You have your version, we have ours.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

It seems rather more like some people just can't stand any Medaka at all.

Very possible. After all, no-one likes to read a story about an unlikeable character. She probably just dosen't appeal to the general taste as much as her supporting cast, which is what I thought was it all along. The thing is, I fully believe that was intentional.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

If you don't have any actual plausible explanation for why Zenkichi and Kumagawa's screentime would be treated differently, I can't really take that claim seriously, because I haven't seen anything aside from circumstantial evidence

I'm not trying to prove anything to you, I'm just telling you that that's an effect that happens.

I'm explaining one hypothesis from personal observation, you're free to dismiss anything I say, since all I was even arguing anyway was with personal observations on the internet(because, really, what else is there to even bring). I don't take this as serious as you'd think, sorry.

However, as for what you said: have you ever considered that Zen and Kuma are simply more liked/enjoyed than Medaka?

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Snip

And really, the above is all that's needed to say.

Medaka just dosen't really appeal as a character to the fanbase's tastes, internationally, and now, kinda in japan.

Which begs the question if this was Nishio's intention all along. Because use of that has inevitably made the side-characters seem more interesting and dynamic.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Your also ignoring that Aijimu existed before the creation of the universe and had attempting to disprove this fact almost the entire time, so it doesn't matter what they think. It's like taking the answer of a 2 year old over a 40 year old man and then multiply it by an insane degree. It doesn't make any sense.

This is remarkably stupid. People should just swallow Ajimu's idea that the world is fictional because she lived a long time? Obviously no one is going to do that, they're just going to think she's insane (which she kinda was), since she has no objective proof.

Also issue of dispelling a belief someone has held (and tried to disprove) for several thousand years/millions in a min is moronic. i'm sorry but it's one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. And there's no logi youc use can use to make it sound logical, because it isn't.

You're missing the point. The reason Medaka got through to her is because she's the only one who figured out what Ajimu was thinking, even though she made it blatantly obvious to everyone.

Even if Aijimu was deluding herself in fantasy, for her to have held it for that long means that logical reasoning would reach her in that space of time anyway. It's hard enough to make someone part with a belief they've had for a few mins let alone thousands of years. And the logic Medaka provides wuld be nothing to the logic Aijimu already has. (She has met and fought MC before).

The thing with being deluded is that logic can't fix it, not when you're as OP as Ajimu and your delusion can't be disproved.Medaka got through to her with emotions not logic.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Very possible. After all, no-one likes to read a story about an unlikeable character. She probably just dosen't appeal to the general taste as much as her supporting cast, which is what I thought was it all along. The thing is, I fully believe that was intentional.

Certainly, Medaka is not really designed to be appealing to the general (shounen) taste. However, the question is why do you think that is an audience Nishio is seriously pursuing in the first place?

However, as for what you said: have you ever considered that Zen and Kuma are simply more liked/enjoyed than Medaka?

I don't think there's any way to quantify that Zenkichi is more liked or enjoyed than Medaka, particularly in the region which actually matters, Japan. Even by the most recent popularity poll, Zenkichi only recieved ~850 votes, less than what Medaka had in both of the previous popularity polls. Furthermore, with vote counts of about ~10,000 the popularity polls themselves cannot represent even a 10th of the Medaka Box volume-buying population.

That is not even speaking of my personal experience, from which I can say that Zenkichi also has a semi-vocal hatebase which dislikes his screentime and looks down on his contributions to the story, which could also be interpreted as 'intentional' on Nishio's part. Although Kumagawa's popularity is undeniable (and completely justified, in my opinion; however, in the end he can do just fine as the protagonist of popular side-stories rather than taking over the main manga), I do not really see any validation for the idea that Zenkichi would make for a more popular main character than Medaka.