2013-01-31, 01:03 | Link #2702 | |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
|
Quote:
I wouldn't call Unlimited Desire a "fail". It's closer to what you'd call "gone horribly right", since it DID give the Brains what they wanted: an incredibly intelligent and motivated scientist to do the otherwise shady/illegal research they needed. They just failed to control him and underestimated him.
__________________
|
|
2013-01-31, 11:09 | Link #2704 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: United States
|
It's interesting to note that TV and Movie the 1st treated how Precia regarded Fate differently. At least as far as I can recall; in TV, Precia saw Fate as convient clone to do the dirty work for her in gathering materials needed for her to bring back Alicia, whereas in movie, Precia truly saw her as possible way to bring back Alicia... until she realized that it was a failure.
Correct me if I'm mistaken though. |
2013-01-31, 12:23 | Link #2706 | |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
|
Quote:
But you say it yourself: as far as we know and a lot of times we have to assume things we don’t know in the series. So really won’t be a surprise if some other planet did create cloning tech. I mean we are talking about dozens if not hundreds of worlds just under the TSAB administration so could be possible but let’s go with what we know for sure, because the other way around opens the door to anything really. Again cloning is not really something we can just combine with genetic manipulation if we want a perfect copy. The familiars are poorly explained but, what they have to do with anything about cloning? Maybe the part when they get knowledge from the mage but that could jut to transplant information between two living beings not rediscover memories thanks to a perfect replica of cells. My inner nerd just won’t allow such a poor explanation for science fiction. My more rational part says in the movie or in the first season never matter. Was StrikerS who decide to bring more science fiction elements and let a lot of questions unanswered. But with Precia is again she didn’t need to do what she did, make Fate an artificial mage. And no, Unlimited Desire was a fail. You see, as far as we know, Jail never give the TSAB any tech. He just makes his cyborgs, Gadget Drones and bad things for not good reasons until he discovered the Cradle and kills the brains ruining everything in a single week. They never get anything back from that project but troubles, treason and death.
__________________
|
|
2013-01-31, 13:18 | Link #2707 | |
Sleep beneath the flowers
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 34
|
Quote:
I'm also fairly certain cloning is illegal in the TSAB. At the very least, clones that would in anyway act like the one they're cloned from - I think Project Fate had, as a goal, to actually make it possible to clone someone with memories. And Unlimited Desires DID work in a way. Jail did make the stuff the Council would've wanted - he just never gave it to them in a way they wanted. Mainly because the bulk of the TSAB wouldn't agree to it, so I guess even the High Council can't pull ALL the strings.
__________________
|
|
2013-02-02, 14:36 | Link #2708 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
|
But that is the point; they never get anything from Jail. They give him life, a purpose, money, freedom and he pays them back with really obvious treason plot. On that regard the project fault to create a scientist and create an unbalance individual that could never accomplish anything useful. Also if the High Council could not make the TSAB get in to lost technology then why they even bother will all this crap? Talking about creating your own doom.
__________________
|
2013-02-02, 15:31 | Link #2710 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
|
Or that they did it wrong. In fact there is no indication he didn't have enough freedom to do all the research he wanted to. And is not like he is a psychology compulsion like the Riddler to just keep doing this kind of things, he was suppose to just want more tech.
__________________
|
2013-02-02, 16:29 | Link #2711 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Oh, but they did. Jail was quite public with a lot of his research, and this flowed back to the TSAB as well. For example, the TSAB has the tech to create and maintain cyborgs, as shown by their ability to provide proper maintenance to Ginga and Subaru from the moment they were rescued.
|
2013-02-02, 17:27 | Link #2713 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
He never said they were "nothing like" the numbers, he said they were slightly different, because the people who created Ginga and Subaru were not Jail.
Jail is an open source creator. He creates the base tech, and then lets other scientists have their way with it. But that does not change that he is the origin of the technology. Do recall that Fate specifically noted Jail to be the creator of the genetic adjustments that let cyborg tech function as well as it does for them in the first place. |
2013-02-02, 19:18 | Link #2715 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
|
But the differences were there and in the end Jail didn't really give anything to the TSAB so they could use it. Cyborg tech is awesome but if you don't use it is like knowing how to drive and having no cars at all, nice but really nothing helpful. That is what I am getting at.
Those are interesting points but are you trying to get at Sunder?
__________________
|
2013-02-02, 19:22 | Link #2716 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Just want to know if people agree or not.
Also, to discuss what abilities Hayate might really have been left with, if she doesnt have Collect And Absorb, or the Guardian Knight Program. What alternatives to "blastier than Nanoha, but worse at everything else" would seem appropriate? |
2013-02-02, 19:29 | Link #2717 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
|
I'm fairly certain that the Book left the spells it had collected for Hayate's use, so she probably still has access to Nanoha's Starlight Breaker and Fate's Plasma Lancer Shifts. She just doesn't use them in favor of her own spells from a meta-level, as the show would want to show her using spells unique to her and not those already used by Nanoha and Fate. It is, after all, fairly easy to learn spells from someone else if you know how. Nanoha taught Teana the Starlight Breaker, and Nanoha herself took Teana's Crossfire Shoot with little difficulty.
__________________
|
2013-02-02, 20:03 | Link #2718 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
|
Yes but Hayate can take any spell being Mid-Childa or Belka and use it. That makes her special. She is not limit to one of the two like the rest. Then again Vivio says she can do the same.
__________________
|
2013-02-02, 20:18 | Link #2719 | ||||||||||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In short, I see no evidence whatsoever that the defense program was introduced externally, and indeed much more evidence that it was a corrupted program that comes with the Book of Darkness standard image. |
||||||||||
2013-02-02, 20:47 | Link #2720 | |
Sleep beneath the flowers
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 34
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
|
|