US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

That is an easy one, to China no doubt. Echoes of "Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed"

Romney did that already though. At least, I thought he wants to be tough on China... At some point. Occasionally.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

As far as finger pointing goes, once the GOP is ousted (according to y'all) then where do you think the finger will point? I don't believe the Democrats are entirely without blame either.

Absolutely. But with the current setup, and the reluctance of people to change it, the GOP has pushed too hard on certain things that combined into a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of voters. Let's not mince words though....false equivalence is used a lot, but on many instances the parties are on the same page in what they want to achieve, they just have very different ways and ideas of getting there.

We like to simplify and stereotype complicated things, and both parties are quite complicated. Heck, politics is complicated. I'm deeply concerned about all of the more leftist people crawling out of the woodwork lately...it brings up all the bad memories of how extreme leftist ideology can get, and it's just as ugly as anything the more extreme right elements have dished out. I for one don't want the conservative movement to disappear, but I do want the current bubble of delusion many of them live under to pop so that they can be the proper check on liberals they're meant to be.

Speaking of blame, I'm reminded of this movie scene:

Lewis: Goob, I had no idea!
Bowler Hat Guy: Shut up! And don’t call me “Goob”! How many evil villians do you know that can pull off a name like “Goob”? Bleh!
Lewis: Look, I’m sorry your life turned out so bad. But don’t blame me you messed it up yourself. You just focused on the bad stuff when all you had to do was… let go of the past and keep moving forward…
Bowler Hat Guy: Hmm, let’s see… take responsiblity for my own life or blame you? Dingdingdingdingding! Blame you wins hands down!

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by Solace

Absolutely. But with the current setup, and the reluctance of people to change it, the GOP has pushed too hard on certain things that combined into a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of voters. Let's not mince words though....false equivalence is used a lot, but on many instances the parties are on the same page in what they want to achieve, they just have very different ways and ideas of getting there.

We like to simplify and stereotype complicated things, and both parties are quite complicated. Heck, politics is complicated. I'm deeply concerned about all of the more leftist people crawling out of the woodwork lately...it brings up all the bad memories of how extreme leftist ideology can get, and it's just as ugly as anything the more extreme right elements have dished out. I for one don't want the conservative movement to disappear, but I do want the current bubble of delusion many of them live under to pop so that they can be the proper check on liberals they're meant to be.

Speaking of blame, I'm reminded of this movie scene:

Agreed, but it would seem that taking responsibility and doing something about the current goings on is a thing of the past. It's easier to pass the buck than take it the blame.
Plus the current ignorance shown by most voters of not doing their research in the candidates, or worse not voting because of talking points or one candidates stance is just ludicrous! If you don't vote...don't bitch!
And I'm reminded of another saying: "Ye shall reap, what thou sow."

[ganbaru]

Republicans say party needs revamp after Romney drubbing
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AH0GA20121118

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Republicans say party needs revamp after Romney drubbing
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AH0GA20121118

They like to talk the talk, but they do not walk the walk:

GOP Study Committee Director Disowns Brief Attacking Current IP Law

They like to say they are not the Rich people¡s party, TBT they are the Very rich people's party.

[Lost Cause]

Problem as I see it is that neither party wants to compromise. Their thinking is its either my way or the hi-way! Till they learn to come together and work things out its going to be the same old thing!

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

They like to talk the talk, but they do not walk the walk:

GOP Study Committee Director Disowns Brief Attacking Current IP Law

They like to say they are not the Rich people¡s party, TBT they are the Very rich people's party.

In other words, their Masters jerked the leash. Sad to say though, the 'mainstream' Democrats are even worse when it comes to "IP" (copyright, trademark, patent law, with their support from the "thought police" lobby (middlemen like the the RIAA/MPAA, etc.)

I used to be more evenhanded in my disdain for them. But nope, not any more.

[GDB]

The democrats are willing to compromise, as they've shown over the past 4 years. However, they know the GOP won't, so they've stopped even trying. And that is how the government stopped functioning.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by GDB

The democrats are willing to compromise, as they've shown over the past 4 years. However, they know the GOP won't, so they've stopped even trying. And that is how the government stopped functioning.

Yeah, if you subscribe to the notion that compromise means "my way or the highway."
Don't act like the Dems are some innocent bystanders in this, they are as much a part of this musical as their counterparts.

And when Bush was president it was the same way.
The Republicans played the victim saying "the Dems won't compromise" when in fact both have moved the same basic agenda forward.

Case-in-point, why haven't the Democrats repealed the Patriot Act yet?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Case-in-point, why haven't the Democrats repealed the Patriot Act yet?

Mostly because they're fearful of the so-far very effective bludgeoning by the GOP with "flag and bible" when they talk about rationalizing national security laws. Translation: they're spineless on these kind of issues.

I'm not sure a lot of people grasp that the Congress is really easy for a minority to hold hostage thanks to all the "rules of protocol" they've hamstrung themselves with over the decades.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Mostly because they're fearful of the so-far very effective bludgeoning by the GOP with "flag and bible" when they talk about rationalizing national security laws. Translation: they're spineless on these kind of issues.

I'm not sure a lot of people grasp that the Congress is really easy for a minority to hold hostage thanks to all the "rules of protocol" they've hamstrung themselves with over the decades.

So basically Lewis Black is right.

The Republicans are the party of bad ideas, and the Democrats are the party of no ideas.

This is why I say we're screwed.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

Problem as I see it is that neither party wants to compromise. Their thinking is its either my way or the hi-way! Till they learn to come together and work things out its going to be the same old thing!

I don't see the equivalence here.

Obama offered the best deal possible last term. The GOP decided they would much rather reject the deal and get the Presidency instead.

Who are "They"?

Where is this mythical world where the Democrats were unreasonable?

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Where is this mythical world where the Democrats were unreasonable?

It's a world called the USA, where selling 6 bootleg discs lands you 15 years in prison.

http://now.msn.com/patrick-lashun-ki...six-fake-discs

If that's not unreasonable, I don't know what is anymore.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

It's a world called the USA, where selling 6 bootleg discs lands you 15 years in prison.

http://now.msn.com/patrick-lashun-ki...six-fake-discs

Where I have heard that story before?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

It's a world called the USA, where selling 6 bootleg discs lands you 15 years in prison.

http://now.msn.com/patrick-lashun-ki...six-fake-discs

If that's not unreasonable, I don't know what is anymore.

Isn't that the GOP's new policy push? IP regulation/deregulation? How is the Fox New mass media push on that going?

Actually, I am not sure what they want with that. Do they want more or less laws?

I will care more if I feel they are on my side. Which is unlikely, as the GOP is notorious for not able to convince anyone they are on their side.

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I don't see the equivalence here.

Obama offered the best deal possible last term. The GOP decided they would much rather reject the deal and get the Presidency instead.

Who are "They"?

Where is this mythical world where the Democrats were unreasonable?

"They" being both parties. And remember that the first two years Obama was president the Democrats had both the House and Senate, yet nothing was really done outside of saving the various loan companies, Detroit, and "Obamacare". For whatever reason the Dems failed to take the initiative and DO something.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Isn't that the GOP's new policy push? IP regulation/deregulation? How is the Fox New mass media push on that going?

Actually, I am not sure what they want with that. Do they want more or less laws?

I will care more if I feel they are on my side. Which is unlikely, as the GOP is notorious for not able to convince anyone they are on their side.

I agree, the GOP is NOT on our side.
My point is that neither are the Democrats.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

"They" being both parties. And remember that the first two years Obama was president the Democrats had both the House and Senate, yet nothing was really done outside of saving the various loan companies, Detroit, and "Obamacare". For whatever reason the Dems failed to take the initiative and DO something.

"Obamacare" is no joke. I have no idea why you think it is irrelevant when the GOP nearly gambled the entire election on removing it.

It isn't single payer, but it at least pushed America into joining the rest of the civilised world. I fail to see why making America less of a 3rd world country is somehow unimportant.

Hell, The West Wing had a story arc on that.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I agree, the GOP is NOT on our side.
My point is that neither are the Democrats.

As Obama said, "I(He) care".

That is why Obama embraced the intended insult of "Obamacare" that was designed as a swearword. You might say the Dems are not on anyone's side, but the electorate can tell the difference.

The Democrats are on someone's side. They are not the same no matter what anyone claimed otherwise. Are they doing a good job? No. But at least they are doing A job. This has been my opinion of Democrats through out the electoral season.

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

"Obamacare" is no joke. I have no idea why you think it is irrelevant when the GOP nearly gambled the entire election on removing it.

It isn't single payer, but it at least pushed America into joining the rest of the civilised world. I fail to see why making America less of a 3rd world country is somehow unimportant.

Hell, The West Wing had a story arc on that.

As Obama said, "I(He) care".

That is why Obama embraced the intended insult of "Obamacare" that was designed as a swearword. You might say the Dems are not on anyone's side, but the electorate can tell the difference.

The Democrats are on someone's side. They are not the same no matter what anyone claimed otherwise. Are they doing a good job? No. But at least they are doing A job. This has been my opinion of Democrats through out the electoral season.

Excuse me but exactly when did I say Obamacare was a joke?!
And since when is one of the few superpowers left a "3rd world country"?!
Last time I checked Obamacare passed, and we were the ones cleaning up the messes in the world! It's time for this effing U.N. to start doing their job!
West Wing?! Really! A bunch of actors playing politician how ironic.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

As Obama said, "I(He) care".

That is why Obama embraced the intended insult of "Obamacare" that was designed as a swearword. You might say the Dems are not on anyone's side, but the electorate can tell the difference.

The Democrats are on someone's side. They are not the same no matter what anyone claimed otherwise. Are they doing a good job? No. But at least they are doing A job. This has been my opinion of Democrats through out the electoral season.

Obama has to say he cares or else the sheeple wouldn't vote for him.

As for the Democrats, sure they're on someone's side.
Wallstreet, just like the other team in the National Fascist League.

If you actually think that the common people have any real say in what the Republocratic Party does, you best think again.
It's time to shut off the MSNBC, FoxNews, CNN, and networks and start looking at what kinds of laws these jokers are passing and what they actually do functionally.

The rhetoric of the TSA made it sound like they were going to keep us all safe, but the reality is that they are now our taskmasters charged with humiliating us at airports and eventually the streets of the US.

Bush created the DHS, the TSA, the war on Terror, and the path to regulating the internet.
Obama has expanded it with the NDAA, cybersecurity bill, etc.
To say that they are not pushing the same agenda is to admit ignorance of what is going on in this country.